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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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 Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:05 pm
Someone mentioned rigamortis in another thread and that made me stop and analyze just why this isn't a threat to a vampire. I posted my answer, but it made me think of other things.
Let's look at a vampire in a scientific way. How does the blood sustain this dead body? If the body moves, thinks, speaks and acts otherwise normal, why is it dead? (Beyond the issue of the soul.)
I'm not thinking of mythos or legends here, just scientific thought on the matter.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:07 pm
This here is the crux of what I said on rigamortis and vampirism...
A vampire, while not 'living', functions. Thus to some degree the body's systems are still intact. Unless one assumes major magics to animate the body, and in most traditonal sources magic is never mentioned, many of the body's systems must still work. The brain to think, the lungs to draw breath to speak (even if the oxygen isn't needed, we need the air movement to speak), the chemical signals to move the mucles. Thus there can not be a 'final release' of chemical signals to the muscles and rigamoritis would never threaten to set in.
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:02 pm
I'd say that a vampire lacks 'life force', and blood contains that 'life force'.
Levictus 9:10/11 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood...
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:45 pm
hmm..thats a good question. Possibly, the blood goes through there system like food does to ours, except the blood they drink connects to every being of their body. their victums blood becomes their blood. thats what i think anyways.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:02 pm
I think it depends on the vampire. Some vampires, like in Hellsing, can perform most all of the functions that a normal human being can, and then some. Other things aren't included in a vampire's uhm... pseudo-biological cycle-majig?? like the digestive system, seeing as how they can't consume anything but blood. (Somehow or other, it's broken down into energy and life juice for them regardless) Maybe it's considered dead only because of the fact a person has to go through death in order to become a vampire. Some beliefs about vampires also disable them from being able to perform some of the functions a living person can. Anyway, I can't think of anything else I can say right now that won't run into some "magic" explanation. Well, I hope this has helped some.. kinda, sorta, maybe?
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:42 pm
We might have to consider that fact that to become a vampire you have to contract what ever strain of vampireism they carried. If we consider the stain hard wires changes you body we can draw the conclusion that the foreign bodies break down the blood. I think biologically this could be like the disease Porphyria. Until the body can make it's own ( lack of a better word) parasites it needs this jump start from another vampire. Since this blood is apart of the master vampire we can assume that is why they can communicate telepathically with there offspring. Since the vampire is nothing with out it's blood and a vampire has no soul I would think there consciousness lies with in the blood.
I think this is a good step in the way to solving vampireism chemically.
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:18 pm
I don't know much about vampire biologu, but perhaps instead of needing to tkae in food like the living, they take in blood. After all blood is essentially a protein drink (full of iron and water), perhaps this is what sustains them, plus the oxygen in the blood keeps the muscles and vitals functioning.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:42 pm
Good thoughts people, good thoughts.
Running idea seems to be that biologicaly the body is the same human or vampire except for that all nuturition/energy/oxygen is gotten through the blood rather than food and because the body is dead, the blood breaks down and needs to be replaced.
By the way...mucle movement can be an anaerobic process, meaning that oxygen is not needed. This is a good thing because, considering vampires lungs do not function and take up oxygen into the blood, there is no oxygen in the blood to carry out aerobic metabolism.
Aerobic metabolism is prefered for its efficency, but as the vampire body wouldn't need to run many of its systems, what energy is generated by the anaerobic process can go to basic movement and such.
Speach is air moving over the vocal cords; for a vampire breathing may happen without any of the oxygen actualy being used by the body; it's all just expelled again in exhalation and used only for speach.
Thanks all for humoring me on this scientific bent. Further imput would be welcome!
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:44 pm
Sir_Catherine Good thoughts people, good thoughts.
Running idea seems to be that biologicaly the body is the same human or vampire except for that all nuturition/energy/oxygen is gotten through the blood rather than food and because the body is dead, the blood breaks down and needs to be replaced.
By the way...mucle movement can be an anaerobic process, meaning that oxygen is not needed. This is a good thing because, considering vampires lungs do not function and take up oxygen into the blood, there is no oxygen in the blood to carry out aerobic metabolism.
Aerobic metabolism is prefered for its efficency, but as the vampire body wouldn't need to run many of its systems, what energy is generated by the anaerobic process can go to basic movement and such.
Speach is air moving over the vocal cords; for a vampire breathing may happen without any of the oxygen actualy being used by the body; it's all just expelled again in exhalation and used only for speach.
Thanks all for humoring me on this scientific bent. Further imput would be welcome!
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:52 pm
Sir_Catherine Good thoughts people, good thoughts.
Running idea seems to be that biologicaly the body is the same human or vampire except for that all nuturition/energy/oxygen is gotten through the blood rather than food and because the body is dead, the blood breaks down and needs to be replaced.
By the way...mucle movement can be an anaerobic process, meaning that oxygen is not needed. This is a good thing because, considering vampires lungs do not function and take up oxygen into the blood, there is no oxygen in the blood to carry out aerobic metabolism.
Aerobic metabolism is prefered for its efficency, but as the vampire body wouldn't need to run many of its systems, what energy is generated by the anaerobic process can go to basic movement and such.
Speach is air moving over the vocal cords; for a vampire breathing may happen without any of the oxygen actualy being used by the body; it's all just expelled again in exhalation and used only for speach.
Thanks all for humoring me on this scientific bent. Further imput would be welcome!
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:28 pm
now how would you explain beyond the simple muscle contractions and jump into total limb regeneration. Even more difficult manipulation of the body to include other forms such as bat, wolf and mist. Is this far too extreme to explain biologically? Some animals and insects do change form and gender and biologically stay the same creature. I can think of no animal in this world that can transform it's self into mist. Although plant spores would be the next best thing to explaining the phenomenon.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:19 pm
Well when you think about the vampire, its existence defies science basically. However, what makes its muscles move when it's dead? Perhaps the will of the 'undead' mind, or simple electrical impulses. Even when a creature is dead electricity can still animate its limbs and perhaps that is how a vampire moves. But then another question is left unanswered. Where does the electricity come from?
Rapid regeneration of the body? I highly doubt there will be any scientific explanation for that. Even if the body can regenerate, it takes time, and with Alucard, it is rapid and nearly instant. From my view, I do not think there is any possible logical reasoning for the existence of a vampire...
But I don't know much, and perhaps other people have other explanations... I'm 13 after all.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:23 pm
Girlycard1944 Well when you think about the vampire, its existence defies science basically. However, what makes its muscles move when it's dead? Perhaps the will of the 'undead' mind, or simple electrical impulses. Even when a creature is dead electricity can still animate its limbs and perhaps that is how a vampire moves. But then another question is left unanswered. Where does the electricity come from? Rapid regeneration of the body? I highly doubt there will be any scientific explanation for that. Even if the body can regenerate, it takes time, and with Alucard, it is rapid and nearly instant. From my view, I do not think there is any possible logical reasoning for the existence of a vampire... But I don't know much, and perhaps other people have other explanations... I'm 13 after all.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:57 pm
Wait who is to say we have to consider the body truly dead?
The cells can simply be designed to have the property's of dead cells.
If we consider vampierism as a parasite or bacteria that alters the body to it's own means then we are not exactly out of the realm of real science.
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:27 pm
Gorenza Wait who is to say we have to consider the body truly dead? The cells can simply be designed to have the property's of dead cells. If we consider vampierism as a parasite or bacteria that alters the body to it's own means then we are not exactly out of the realm of real science.
However one could argue that after killing its host, this vampire parasite then reanimates the body, perhaps providing the energy for the electrical impulses to move the muscles, stimualte thought and even accelerate healing to the point of regrowing limbs.
Starfish and other smaller order animals regrow limbs regularly; perhaps this parasite brings the same process to vampires.
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