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Trying to understand the potential of the human mind, and the potency of the human spirit. 

Tags: Occult, Supernatural, Magic, Psychic 

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Sorrowsong

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:09 pm


There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I've never really considered myself a genius.

I hear spirits, I speak to them. I see energy and I can feel it surging through my body, especially when I am performing magick. I feel the emotions of my spirit friends, one of them reaching out to me and telling me she has been around me longer than I can ever really know. She's told me that I had to leave, but I will see her again when I die. I've spent a lifetime with someone I know in another lifetime. I can see magick happening before my eyes. I can feel Lucifer's presence and according to my friends I can channel him extremely well. I feel that I will see my father again when I die. I don't fear death. I like to think that I will find a soulmate here, and find her again when I die and live in unconditional love when we die. If not, I will search until I find that soulmate.

But... is any of this true? Is there one single speck of truth in that entire paragraph? Do my spirit friends really exist? Is there really someone who is waiting for me when I die? Will I see my father again when I die? I suffered a lot when I was younger. I had depression and was suicidal. I remember one summer where it was so intense that something inside finally snapped, and I met my spirit friend whose name is Claire. Note: She is not the one who said she's been around longer than I think. Claire was my friend, and helped me find other friends when I had none. Was this real, or have I gotten so far that I fell apart and here I am, believing in an ENTIRE UNIVERSE that probably doesn't even exist?

Am I only kidding myself with magick? Only making up a story for death just so I don't have to fear it?

I hate second-guessing myself. But nor do I enjoy riding on blind faith.

Do you ever second guess yourself? What do you do about it?

(will probably be cross-posted)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:28 am


There is nothing wrong with playing Devil's Advocate with yourself. It reinforces what you believe, and makes you ready to defend your beliefs when someone challanges them. Just as long as what you know is true in your heart, then you can never be wrong.

Dances With Homosexuals

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Blind Guardian the 2nd

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:16 am


Frankly? I don't know. It's the internet and not one of us can prove a thing. So I guess the only person you have anything to prove something to is yourself.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:46 pm


Frankly, I question what I do all the time. What it comes down to is that I know that what I'm doing works for me, and I really don't care if anyone else thinks I'm sane for it. I've come up with several very pretty ways to defend what I believe in, and in a fairly articulate fashion if I do say so myself. But really...I've decided it's true enough. I know I'm not idly making things up for fun or for attention. Those are the main things I realized I was worried about.

Wow, that rambled a bit. It breaks down like this - figure out what you're worried about really. Is it other people thinking you're an idiot, or is it you knowing on some level that it's make-believe? If it's the first, there will always be people who disagree with how you view the world, and you're going to have to find a way to square with that. If it's the second...pay attention. If you're afraid you're making it up, then enough asking of that question will tell you whether you really believe in what you're doing/hearing/seeing. And you're the only one who can answer it.

Yvaine


Joshua_Ritter
Crew

Dapper Genius

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:39 pm


Of course I'm gonna start out with you're the only one who really knows for sure. But in this case I'm gonna take a stand and try to help, and come down on the side of the wierd-a** and unlikely.

I can share with you how I beat my demons. You see, several times I've almost been consumed with rational doubt and a sort of self-sure agnostic fatality, before I realized what was going on. You see, I began to doubt all these experiences, not because I had any sort of evidence to disprove what had happened to me, no, but for the simple fact it seemed unbelieveable to me. I had almost convinced myself to stop believing in such stupid pipe-dreams when I realized I was beginning to think this because of a subconcious traitor thought, an anti-concious, if you will, instilled and grown like a seed in me from scientific naturalistic outlook, not born of any true belief or true science, but rather the sadly misguided thought that "rationality should only prove rational things." When my evidence and my reasoning pointed to the extrodinary, then it was just too preposterous to be right, regardless of the reasoning. This is a fallacy most grevious and I have fought against it mentally since I diagnosted it in myself. Your predicament may or may not resemble mine in any particular way.

Look at your experiences. When did you form them, why, under what grounds? Did they come to you or did you formulate them out of fear? If you didn't make them out of fear in the first place, how can you blame them on fear now? You say you do magick, and feel it. How do you suppose you share in an experience many quite unrelated people have testified to feeling in similar ways, when you could speak of magick and we would recognize and learn and be able to use that knowledge to create change, and you could do that same with information we shared. I don't believe fairy tales give you that power.

I'm also curious to know what lies under blind faith for you. If you swore off all magick and supernatural today, what would your worldview fall to? Where did you learn that from? What's it's position on magick and cosmology? I find those questions very important when you get doubt you just can't shake for whatever reason.

I got wonderful, horrible news for you. To the average good old American Christian Family, you are 100% certified batshit ******** Insane. So am I, and so are quite a few of the people here. Do you know why I believe in what most people would consider absolutely unbelieveable?

Because it happened.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:13 am


Ladies and Gentlemen, Josh Ritter!
*applause*
Well said, man, well said.

Yvaine


Starlock

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:57 am


(C&Pd response from another guild because I be lazy)

Sorrowsong
But... is any of this true? Is there one single speck of truth in that entire paragraph? Do my spirit friends really exist? [*snip*]
[Am I] making up a story for death just so I don't have to fear it?


These are good questions. It's good to ask questions. But here's the really important question.

Does it matter if I believe in this or not?

In other words, what are the consequences of your beliefs? I've gone through this drill before on various issues, particularly with something very similar to the "spirit friends" you describe. There was a time when I was younger when I was incapable of questioning it, for that very doubt would destroy the belief.

In the end we define reality. The western world tends to have a very narrow way of viewing existence. To most, existence is limited ot that which we can see, touch, taste, hear, or smell. Yet NONE of these things would exist at all to us if they were not processed in the mind. Existence is only ever registered in the mind, regardless of what's 'out there.' Existence in mind is still existence, regardless of whether or not others verify it or not. And maybe you are constructing the whole thing as a coping mechanism. Recognize that. Be comfortable with it. And then ask yourself, what do you WANT to believe?

I measure such beliefs pretty simply based on consequences. If the consequences of your beliefs are helping you more than they're hurting you (or things around you) than the answer to the question "Does it matter if I believe in this or not?" is generally a no. What it really boils down is if you WANT to believe or not. Do you want to believe? So long as the answer is yes and the consequences aren't hurting you, then believe.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:15 am


Basic tenet of phenomenology. Observe the phenomenon with as few preconceived notions as possible. If you hear voices and those voices respond to your words, then you hear voices that respond to your words. It's just that simple. Essentially, what Josh said.

Laren


Stoned Viking

Interesting Smoker

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:39 pm


The line between genius and insanity can fade away when you add in metaphysics(Magick).

If you know it to be true it is true but if you dont belive its true its not.

I could tell you yes its all true but still you could choose not to believe it.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:58 am


Starlock
(C&Pd response from another guild because I be lazy)

Sorrowsong
But... is any of this true? Is there one single speck of truth in that entire paragraph? Do my spirit friends really exist? [*snip*]
[Am I] making up a story for death just so I don't have to fear it?


These are good questions. It's good to ask questions. But here's the really important question.

Does it matter if I believe in this or not?

In other words, what are the consequences of your beliefs? I've gone through this drill before on various issues, particularly with something very similar to the "spirit friends" you describe. There was a time when I was younger when I was incapable of questioning it, for that very doubt would destroy the belief.

In the end we define reality. The western world tends to have a very narrow way of viewing existence. To most, existence is limited ot that which we can see, touch, taste, hear, or smell. Yet NONE of these things would exist at all to us if they were not processed in the mind. Existence is only ever registered in the mind, regardless of what's 'out there.' Existence in mind is still existence, regardless of whether or not others verify it or not. And maybe you are constructing the whole thing as a coping mechanism. Recognize that. Be comfortable with it. And then ask yourself, what do you WANT to believe?

I measure such beliefs pretty simply based on consequences. If the consequences of your beliefs are helping you more than they're hurting you (or things around you) than the answer to the question "Does it matter if I believe in this or not?" is generally a no. What it really boils down is if you WANT to believe or not. Do you want to believe? So long as the answer is yes and the consequences aren't hurting you, then believe.

You are trying to Chaos Magic at me, and I am sorry my lady, but that's my turf. Most people aren't cut out to decide what to believe if it will "help" them (Based on what criteria?) and then genuinely believe that which they have chosen to.

Also, read my first post, as it is unspeakably cool.

Joshua_Ritter
Crew

Dapper Genius


Laren

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:09 pm


Ladies and gentlemen, the ever humble Josh Ritter.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:17 pm


Laren
Ladies and gentlemen, the ever humble Josh Ritter.
Oh, Josh. You just got sarcasm'd, dude. Are you just going to take that?

DrasBrisingr


Joshua_Ritter
Crew

Dapper Genius

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:44 pm


DrasBrisingr
Laren
Ladies and gentlemen, the ever humble Josh Ritter.
Oh, Josh. You just got sarcasm'd, dude. Are you just going to take that?

Are you kidding me? Of course I will. You see, I understand he only does it out of envy. Maybe jealousy, too.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:38 pm


Envy, Jealousy...and Desire heart Who loves you baby...

Laren


Joshua_Ritter
Crew

Dapper Genius

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:21 am


Laren
Envy, Jealousy...and Desire heart Who loves you baby...

You do, Laren. And may I remind you that your wife also browses this forum, so, may I say, you quite possibly are in trouble.
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