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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:42 pm
I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the magic practices of the East in areas such as Japan and China. Or, if they knew any good resources about the magic practices of the East. Thank you!
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:05 am
Fire away with your questions. I don't have web resources, but I know a fair bit about Eastern religion.
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:40 am
Blind Guardian the 2nd Fire away with your questions. I don't have web resources, but I know a fair bit about Eastern religion. I really don't have any questions prepared. But I'll fire off what is coming to mind right now. 1.) The systems like shamanism, Esoteric Buddhism, Shinto and other astern systems: what are their basic ideas of magic? Do they use the assitance of dieties, spirits, elements etc., etc.? 2.) I keep noticing paper as a large part of Eastern magic in regions like China and Japan. Is there a branch of magic concentrated solely on paper?
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:43 pm
Terg Blind Guardian the 2nd Fire away with your questions. I don't have web resources, but I know a fair bit about Eastern religion. I really don't have any questions prepared. But I'll fire off what is coming to mind right now. 1.) The systems like shamanism, Esoteric Buddhism, Shinto and other astern systems: what are their basic ideas of magic? Do they use the assitance of dieties, spirits, elements etc., etc.? 2.) I keep noticing paper as a large part of Eastern magic in regions like China and Japan. Is there a branch of magic concentrated solely on paper? Bibliomancy. xd
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:03 pm
What a can of worms. EVERY RELIGION HAS MAGIC, BUT THEY TEND TO CALL IT RITUAL. Most of the Oriental religions, however, call a spade a spade, and label such practices sorcery or magic. It's restricted for use by sages and priests, however, as not everyone can use it.
The nations and disciplines you mention pretty much all spawn from Taoism. Shinto was inspired by (if not a bloody direct descendent of) Taoism, and the influences can be seen in multiple places. The basic idea of magic stems from relationships with the dead and one's place in the Heavenly hierarchy. Sages spent their whole lives (when not trying to find immortality) trying to figure out how to invoke the power of the Heavenly hierarchy, as well as how to efficiently channel their own energy for maximum effect in the world of spirit and the world of flesh.
The paper talismans (called zhou in China and fu in Japan if I recall correctly) must be written on a special paper with blood. It takes more than just some pretty pictures, too. Each talisman is an order according to the ancient Heavenly Imperial hierarchy, and requires the proper invocations and patterns. As for magic focused solely on paper, what of the Sufi practice of writing excerpts of the Quran as talismans? Same dif. I find Qi Gong works just as well.
The use of the I Ching for divination can be either as bibliomancy, cartomancy (yarrowstalks), or coin-based (I don't know what that's called). However, I think the I Ching is just a really old guide to Chaos Magic.
True Buddhism has little to no magic. Mind, I speak as someone educated mostly in Lesser Vehicle/Mahayana-derived Buddhism, where it is more a mental practice than a spiritual discipline. Even so, the Vajrayana sects use tools and rituals, and the Greater Vehicle sects use the Boddhisattvas as guides. Still, the ultimate goal of Buddhism is inner peace and self-improvement to reach Narvana, which, to me, puts it far from what most would call "magic" (though it certainly helps one, yes?). Any of the "magic" that Buddhists use from China eastward to Korea and Japan was integrated from Taoism on Buddhism's spread through China.
On a side note, I got scolded for referring to Christian lore as such in my Catholic high school. I love Christ to death, so to speak, but sometimes his followers earn my ire. Fire away with other questions, please.
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:51 pm
Terg Blind Guardian the 2nd Fire away with your questions. I don't have web resources, but I know a fair bit about Eastern religion. I really don't have any questions prepared. But I'll fire off what is coming to mind right now. 1.) The systems like shamanism, Esoteric Buddhism, Shinto and other astern systems: what are their basic ideas of magic? Do they use the assitance of dieties, spirits, elements etc., etc.? 2.) I keep noticing paper as a large part of Eastern magic in regions like China and Japan. Is there a branch of magic concentrated solely on paper? I can help out a bit with the first question! Shamanism (in a nutshell) is a type of magic that involves the aid of spirits. Those spirits can be nature spirits (animals and plants), supernatural spirits, and ancestors/the dead. In Shinto, they follow a similar principle in the use of spirits but also have a formal mythology and pantheon of gods (Amaterasu, Inari, etc.). As for paper, in Japan there is a big emphasis on the written word in magic. Banishments, blessings, and other things are written on paper and either given to someone or placed on something. I have a knowledge blessing paper from Wakayama which is basically paper with some kanji on it that wishes you good luck with knowledge/studies.
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:36 am
Terg Blind Guardian the 2nd Fire away with your questions. I don't have web resources, but I know a fair bit about Eastern religion. I really don't have any questions prepared. But I'll fire off what is coming to mind right now. 1.) The systems like shamanism, Esoteric Buddhism, Shinto and other astern systems: what are their basic ideas of magic? Do they use the assitance of dieties, spirits, elements etc., etc.? 2.) I keep noticing paper as a large part of Eastern magic in regions like China and Japan. Is there a branch of magic concentrated solely on paper? I know little about Eastern Shamanism, and as someone has covered the general practices of shamanism (most notedly animism, the belief in spirits in all things which can aid human practice) I need not really say anymore. Shinto itself has a belief in the seperation between the sacred and the profrane, which Durkheim identified as being a typically animist/totemist practice in nature, which is correct. As while Shinto may have a spiritual pantheon, it also sees a god in everything. So Shinto will often draw barriers between the world of the human everyday life, and the realm of the gods (the kami). These are usually marked by torii gates:  That above is an example of the torii at the Kyoto Heian Shrine. Other barriers drawn in between the world of the gods and people is shide, folded strips of paper on a rope of stray rice rope, known as a shimenawa.  Here are shide featured on a wand, a concept I shall elaborate on later. Shimenawa mark the boundary between the sacred and the profane. They keep impurities out and purify the space within. Shimenawa was first used to prevent the sun goddess Amaterasu from re-entering a cave to save the world from eternal night.  Here is a typical shimenawa. Shide are also often used on wands (called Harai Gushi) for a technique known as "sweeping". The ritual is called Harai, and is a purification ritual to remove unwanted impurities and spirits. Japanese people will often get a new car blessed with harai, and it is often used as an exorcism ritual. I have to disagree with the person above who stated that Mahayana Buddhism features little in the way of magic. For a start, talismans are regularly on sale at Buddhist shrines and temples in Japan, indicating that there is at least some belief in a form of magic, or spiritual protection. But you are right in that Buddhism is not a religion built around magic. But it does contain it. For instance, Japanese sects of Buddhism such as Obaku, Tendai etc. have no qualms about admitting to the existence of ghosts and magic/ritual to rid people of such ghosts. Quite a few types exist, too. Yurei are the most similar to the Western concept of ghost - spirits of the deceased, wearing white kimono, their visible bodies ending at the waist. They are drawn back to haunt the living from unrequited love, or sometimes, hunger for revenge. However, Oni are taken directly from Buddhist theology. They are the fearsome fanged and horned demons whose images are found carved near temple entrances. They have specific duties, such as rescuing the innocent, scaring the wicked to death, and guarding the gates of Hell itself. However, magic does exist in Buddhism, though is not usually encouraged by "lay people", and is instead left in the hands of priest. For instance, a Buddhist exorcism involves a temple's chief priest and his assistant, reading an appropriate sutra (the scriptures of Buddhism) and burning a special incense. The priest also carries a shakujo - a wooden staff with metal rings threaded onto it, creating an unearthly sound to scare evil spirits away. For instance, two verses if the shakujo are exactly the kind of thing you would expect to hear in a Western exorcism: VI. I pray that all beings everywhere hear the sound of the Shakujo; that the lazy become energetic; that precept breakers become virtuous; that the untrustworthy become reliable; that the stingy become generous; that the angry become merciful; that the foolish become wise; that the arrogant become humble; and that once free from obstacles they take heart, act with myriad skillful means and quickly attain enlightenment. VII. For the benefit of all beings, I wish for a change of heart in the harmful beings of the world: the cruel and wicked people; the devils and evil spirits; the fierce animals, poisonous snakes and insects. I wish that all these beings hear the sound of the Shakujo, abandon all harm, emanate the Bodhi Heart, act with myriad skillful means, and quickly attain enlightenment. Pretty much "leave with the power of the holy". On the final note of Shinto, however, I will tell you how their prayer works. Like a lot of Eastern religions, and other earlier forms of religion, they work on a system of exchange. Offerings are made to gods in the form of rice, sake at shrines, and if you wish to make a prayer, you must follow this order. You bow twice, as a mark of respect to the gods. You then clap twice, to wake their spirits to hear your prayer. Then you pray silently, or out loud, it matters not. You then bow once more, and offer a small token of money to the gods in thanks. Oh, and both Shinto and Buddhist shrines give you fonts of water for "harai", cleansing, as mentioned earlier. It is common to wash the hands and mouth before approaching a shrine. In regards to the paper, as mentioned before, in Shinto, shide (folded paper strips) are used to mark boundaries. As someone said earlier, I am sorry, but "fu" is not the proper term for Japanese amulets. They come in many names, but the name for a talisman (be it paper or otherwise) that is either lucky or protective is "o-mamori". They are not always paper, however. But, the Shinto shrines also sell o-inori, prayers to the kami (gods) written on paper. As Japan is a Shinto Buddhist country, it is believed that Shinto beliefs fit in with that of Buddhism. As in, appealing to dieties can be necessary at some points. Other uses similar to that of paper in Japan is that of "ema". Ema are wooden plaques, on which you write a wish. You hang it on the ema stand at a shrine and hope a god answers it. Other items sold at shrines are "hamaya", evil-destroying arrows.  Here is a hamaya with other paper talismans intended to protect the home. But one must note that the uses of paper in Japanese religion is not so much magic, as it is protection or wish granting, in the same way prayer and crucifixes are in Western religion. I actually only know of one spell, or series of spells, that used paper amulets. And it was a Taoist one, from China, to deal with a vampire. The Taoist priest relies on yellow paper talismans with characters written in red ink of blood. It was often that these talismans would be placed in the grave with the dead so they did not rise, and the talisman's absence is ONE reason why a vampire would rise. "Evil" magic also allowed talismans to create zombies. The talisman would need to applied to the forehead area (which would be pinned to a hat if you were respectable, nailed there if you were not ******** around) and then the undead would lose (or, if a zombie, gain) power and be under the priest's control. That is the only example I know. I hope this helped.
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:52 pm
I believe my exact assertion was that Buddhist elements that relate to the practical magics of demons and the like, tend to be the influence of Taoism in China and Japan, and that Mahayana Buddhism is more of a psychological practice. I rarely make universal assertions, as they are logically lazy and fallacious...so, um, nyah?
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:57 am
Laren I believe my exact assertion was that Buddhist elements that relate to the practical magics of demons and the like, tend to be the influence of Taoism in China and Japan, and that Mahayana Buddhism is more of a psychological practice. I rarely make universal assertions, as they are logically lazy and fallacious...so, um, nyah? Everything has an influence from somewhere. Are you saying magic itself is not a psychological practice? I just don't like someone coming into a topic, who doesn't practice my religion, and starts telling me what it contains. Don't worry, I'm not angry. And I'm not gonna get pissed off over it. I just would like you to know the difference in future. 3nodding
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:01 am
iolitefire I can help out a bit with the first question! Shamanism (in a nutshell) is a type of magic that involves the aid of spirits. Those spirits can be nature spirits (animals and plants), supernatural spirits, and ancestors/the dead. In Shinto, they follow a similar principle in the use of spirits but also have a formal mythology and pantheon of gods (Amaterasu, Inari, etc.). As for paper, in Japan there is a big emphasis on the written word in magic. Banishments, blessings, and other things are written on paper and either given to someone or placed on something. I have a knowledge blessing paper from Wakayama which is basically paper with some kanji on it that wishes you good luck with knowledge/studies. How long have you had that paper? The Japanese hold a belief that the talismans bring good fortune by absorbing bad luck, spirits and magic, so should not be kept or worn for too long, as eventually they will overflow with negative energy and pass it on to the owner.
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:04 pm
Blind Guardian the 2nd iolitefire I can help out a bit with the first question! Shamanism (in a nutshell) is a type of magic that involves the aid of spirits. Those spirits can be nature spirits (animals and plants), supernatural spirits, and ancestors/the dead. In Shinto, they follow a similar principle in the use of spirits but also have a formal mythology and pantheon of gods (Amaterasu, Inari, etc.). As for paper, in Japan there is a big emphasis on the written word in magic. Banishments, blessings, and other things are written on paper and either given to someone or placed on something. I have a knowledge blessing paper from Wakayama which is basically paper with some kanji on it that wishes you good luck with knowledge/studies. How long have you had that paper? The Japanese hold a belief that the talismans bring good fortune by absorbing bad luck, spirits and magic, so should not be kept or worn for too long, as eventually they will overflow with negative energy and pass it on to the owner. You know, I really have no idea where it is, or if I even still have it. I moved to another state and so things have a tendency to get lost, as it were. I got it in Japan about 7-8 years ago. I got it at a Buddhist temple in Kyoto. I'm not sure if mine functions as a good luck talisman though since its very specific in the area of knowledge, especially studying. I suppose it could still run out of juice though, so to speak.
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:56 am
iolitefire You know, I really have no idea where it is, or if I even still have it. I moved to another state and so things have a tendency to get lost, as it were. I got it in Japan about 7-8 years ago. I got it at a Buddhist temple in Kyoto. I'm not sure if mine functions as a good luck talisman though since its very specific in the area of knowledge, especially studying. I suppose it could still run out of juice though, so to speak. Well the point of a talisman is to absorb bad luck or opportunities associated with that area. After a while it's sucked up so much bad luck it starts.... overflowing onto the owner.
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:26 pm
I remember about the absorbing/overflowing thing, but I was taught that in some cases the item could be "cleaned" - sort of like a re-useable air filter. Use the charm to absorb "bad chi", have it officially cleaned/emptied of the nastiness, then put it back to continue its work. This would obviously be done with charms made from more permanent materials, as paper is pretty disposable, but...
Any comment on that practice?
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