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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:54 pm
So, I'm surfing wikipedia and reading articles (because I'm a noob like that) and I decide to look up logical fallicies and go through all the ones I can. I eventually came to the power word fallicy. They don't explain it very well to me, so I'll explain it. A "power word" is a word specifically used to give a false sense of "power" to the arguer/degrade the opposer. They included a couple of good examples. Quote: Religious and spiritual~ Faith. Such as U.S. Senator Bill Frist's portraying Democrats as "against people of faith" for blocking President Bush's nominees. Godless. Used to describe both atheists and those who support a highly secular state, or are openly hostile to organized religion or religious faith, or those posessed of a different (and perceived wrong) faith, or even of a 'wrong' sect of the same faith. Pagan, Cultist, Sect, infidel, blasphemer, Non-believer, heretic, Unfaithful. Describing all individuals of different religious or spiritual views. Moral and Immoral. Used to describe people or behaviours with which one agrees or disagrees, but lacking any consensus and subject to change. In 2000 it was considered immoral for blacks to marry whites in some States. In 1900 it was thought moral to hang blacks for less. Other~ Care. "We care." Children. Politicians and political advocates find phrases like "to help the children" or "think of the children" useful power phrases when proposing (or opposing) certain legislation or spending. Family. Used in a similar way to "children," often as part of the terms "pro-family" or "family values." -friendly. Supportive or helpful, as in "Environment-friendly" and "User-friendly" I find it funny that under the "Debate" section, the first thing they include is "Abortion"; but I don't find it funny that it makes perfect sense. Quote: Abortion Debate~ Anti-Choice, Anti-Life, Pro-Abortion, and Anti-Abortion. Used by political opponents to refer to those opposed to and in favor of legal abortion, respectively Pro-Choice, Right to Choose, Women's Issues, or Women's Rights, rather than "opposed to criminalizing abortion." Pro-Life, or "opposed to abortion" and/or "opposed to euthanasia." Unborn or baby from the pro-life side. And fetus, blob of tissue, or product of conception from the pro-choice side. It should be noted that though "fetus" is a power word when used in ethical and moral discussions on abortion it is appropriate when used as a medical term. I've seen this fallicy commited on both sides quite equally. But, then again, this suggests that simply identifying with a stance on the abortion issue means that you've commited the power word fallicy. I'm not sure what I mean by this...I just find it to be very useful information. surprised
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:59 pm
I have to object to some of their abortion ones... Some of the pro-life are very much anti-abortion. They don't support it at all. I think they're in the minority, but they do exist. I know many pro-lifers (at least, the ones that I've been exposed to in one way or another) are willing to make exceptions for the woman's health and/or rape and/or incest. I think maybe... anti-elective abortion, but that's kind of a mouthful. In the case of her health, she doesn't have much of a choice; it's abort or die.
I do think that anti-choice is rather accurate. As we see it from the pro-choice side, they oppose a woman's right to choose what goes on in her body; they oppose her choice to abort.
Anti-life is completely fallacious, and so is pro-abortion. That's so "let's exterminate ourselves!"
Are they saying that basically all terminology on both sides (except when using "fetus" as a medical context, and even then I have to object to it being a power word in moral or ethical debates... you're just using the correct medical term to refer to it. What are you supposed to call it in moral and ethical debates?), or am I missing something? I think I'm missing something. I usually am missing something. *headdesk* I think we're seeing the same thing, where they list words like pro-choice and pro-life.
*ahem* My medicine is going into overdrive. It's kinda nice.
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:11 pm
Deformography That's so "let's exterminate ourselves!" Which, as everyone knows, was so 1980s! All joking aside, all the terms carry connotations that, from someone's legitimate perspective, are inaccurate. This is mainly for two reasons. 1) Pro-choicers see the issue from the perspective of ALL people who stand to have their human rights devalued. Therefore, "pro-life" is an incredibly inaccurate term as their stance devalues that very human life. Pro-lifers see the issue from the perspective of the unborn only - from which eye they are, indeed, protecting live and we are removing the important people's choices (the choice of the unborn to live or not). 2) There is a huge diversity of beliefs within both camps. There are pro-choicers who only call themselves that because there is no popular pro-abortion group. They ally themselves with pro-choicers simply because they want to make sure that abortion remains legal, though their motives are to take it a step further and make it mandatory (in some or all cases). We have pro-choicers who believe that the choice should be for women ONLY and that men should have no say in their reproductive freedom (such as the right to back out of financial obligation to the offspring) or that people should only receive certain rights (so they may not support things like euthenasia). We have pro-choicers who adamently believe that ALL people should have ALL choices available to them so long as those choices do not interfere with the lives of others (so drugs should be legal, euthenasia, and all that jazz). And then the pro-life stance as "pro-choice but" and the rape exceptions and the health only exceptions and the no exceptions. But honestly, we get so increibly caught up in the semantics that I say screw it. Acceptable "power words" to use in a debate would be (to my mind): Pro-life Pro-choice Anti-abortion Pro-legalized abortion
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:29 pm
Power Word: Fortitude is also a skill in World of Warcraft mad p (Had to add it gonk )
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:43 pm
Eshmasesh Quote: Abortion Debate~ Anti-Choice, Anti-Life, Pro-Abortion, and Anti-Abortion. Used by political opponents to refer to those opposed to and in favor of legal abortion, respectively Pro-Choice, Right to Choose, Women's Issues, or Women's Rights, rather than "opposed to criminalizing abortion." Pro-Life, or "opposed to abortion" and/or "opposed to euthanasia." Unborn or baby from the pro-life side. And fetus, blob of tissue, or product of conception from the pro-choice side. It should be noted that though "fetus" is a power word when used in ethical and moral discussions on abortion it is appropriate when used as a medical term. The terms "pro-choice" and "pro-life" probably started as power words, but I don't see using them as a fallacy per se. They're now often simply labels. When I hear someone say "I'm pro-life" I rarely if ever get the impression they are saying that in order to strengthen themselves or weaken me. They say it in the same manner as they would "I'm a man/woman" or "I'm a socialist/capitalist." We've all pretty much accepted what the terms mean, even if we may not agree with the literal meaning of them. Certainly there are contexts in which people will use them as power words, but I think it requires additional emphasis now. This is a very different thing, in my opinion, from using a term like "anti-choice." No one calls themselves "anti-choice." I can't think of a time when you would use "anti-choice" when you aren't intentionally drawing attention to the fact that they are trying to strip us of our choice, and stating or implying that it is a bad thing. This seems to me to make it a power word. What gets aborted really, truly is an embryo or fetus. I don't see how using the term "fetus" is a fallacy.
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:51 pm
adabyron What gets aborted really, truly is an embryo or fetus. I don't see how using the term "fetus" is a fallacy. It isn't. It is a medically accurate term. And while "baby" is an emotionally accurate term, this is best reserved for refering to a close friend or family member's pregnancy (or your own). Not for use in a public debate. Similarly, "parasite" is also a medically incorrect term sometimes used to describe fetuses in an attempt to appeal to a whole different set of emotions. "Like a parasite" or "life a baby," that I'm fine with. But to refer to a fetus as being either of those things is simply and plainly incorrect and obviously used for emotional effect.
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:16 pm
I have a thread around here somewhere that explains why anti-choice really shouldn't have such a negastive connotation.
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:29 pm
Toga! Toga! I have a thread around here somewhere that explains why anti-choice really shouldn't have such a negastive connotation. Aye, I've read it (though I own that I've forgotten it entirely). However, I think that if you have to explain to people why they shouldn't really take offence, then it's really just excusing the behaviour you wouldn't stand for in others. The initial reaction is what counts. The initial reaction to the term "anti-choice" is "WHOA! Against choice? but choices are so awesome!" So that initial emotional reaction to the term is a very negative one, even if it is, when explained, unjustified.
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:33 pm
Kukushka Toga! Toga! I have a thread around here somewhere that explains why anti-choice really shouldn't have such a negastive connotation. Aye, I've read it (though I own that I've forgotten it entirely). However, I think that if you have to explain to people why they shouldn't really take offence, then it's really just excusing the behaviour you wouldn't stand for in others. The initial reaction is what counts. The initial reaction to the term "anti-choice" is "WHOA! Against choice? but choices are so awesome!" So that initial emotional reaction to the term is a very negative one, even if it is, when explained, unjustified. But by that logic, pro-choice is just as much of a fallacy, just like pro-life("Woah, they're for all life!") Keep in mind though, I think on a completely different level than most others and my reasonsings don't always match up with the majority. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:36 pm
Toga! Toga! But by that logic, pro-choice is just as much of a fallacy, just like pro-life("Woah, they're for all life!") I think there's a very key difference. When you call yourself "pro-choice," you are making yourself look good. When you call someone else "anti-choice," you are making them look bad. Do you see what I mean? Toga! Toga! Keep in mind though, I think on a completely different level than most others and my reasonsings don't always match up with the majority. sweatdrop I think humans should invent sentient robots and then commit mass-suicide. I think we've ******** up too much and it's time to let our rational children take over. I know how you feel wink
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:10 pm
[ Variant ] Power Word: Fortitude is also a skill in World of Warcraft mad p (Had to add it gonk ) I know, that's what I find hilarious about the whole "power word" entry xd Power Word: IRL Name
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:13 pm
Toga! Toga! Kukushka Toga! Toga! I have a thread around here somewhere that explains why anti-choice really shouldn't have such a negastive connotation. Aye, I've read it (though I own that I've forgotten it entirely). However, I think that if you have to explain to people why they shouldn't really take offence, then it's really just excusing the behaviour you wouldn't stand for in others. The initial reaction is what counts. The initial reaction to the term "anti-choice" is "WHOA! Against choice? but choices are so awesome!" So that initial emotional reaction to the term is a very negative one, even if it is, when explained, unjustified. But by that logic, pro-choice is just as much of a fallacy, just like pro-life("Woah, they're for all life!") Keep in mind though, I think on a completely different level than most others and my reasonsings don't always match up with the majority. sweatdrop The core belief of the pro-life side is that abortion kills a human being, therefore it's criminal. So, saying that illegalizing abortion is anti-choice makes as much sense as saying that illegalizing robbery is anti-choice to them.
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:42 pm
I agree a little bit with the article's example of abortion power words. Anti-choice, anti-life, etc. are definately power words. Their purpose is cast the opponent is a negative light. While using them in our respective guilds is okay, doing it in debate is a little... erm, well, you know what I mean.
Buuuuuuuuut, (There's always a "but".) I fail to see how "pro-life", "pro-choice", and "anti-abortion" are "specifically used to give a false sense of 'power' to the arguer/degrade the opposer".
The article says pro-life and pro-choice are power words because contrasted with simple "opposed to il/legal abortion" they sound more positive. But who the hell actually says "pro-life" or "pro-choice" for that reason? Some people sometimes, sure, but usually it's just simpler to say. They are not typically used to give a false sense of power, thus, not power words. At least they are not power words to a degree that warrents using them as specific examples in a freaking Wikipedia article.
Yes, at one point, pro-life and pro-choice were probably used almost always as power words. In fact, I seem to remember that being how the term "pro-life" (and then "pro-choice" in reaction to that term) came about. But today, people don't really use it that way. They no longer have the same feel-good connotations, and are thus no longer power words.
"Anti-abortion" is just rather ridiculous to have on there. If someone is against abortion, they are anti-abortion. Just cut out three letters. That simple. It might sound negative because of the "anti" if you want to be picky, but really now. (As to why the same does not apply to pro-abortion: People who are anti-abortion are against abortion in 98% or so of instances, yes? Same doesn't go for pro-choice, though. A pro-choicer might abhor abortion, wish no one ever had one, but think it unconstitutional to ban it.)
*wipes sweat* Whee. Sorry about the length. I just got home from school and didn't get to write anything decent allllllllllllll day, so all my words spilled onto here. sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:02 pm
Alot of "pro-choicers" are against my choice to sleep with women over eighteen, though I myself am fourteen. (They say I can't be mature enough to make my own descision.) Yet they have no problem with a girl under eighteen (like fourteen or thirteen) to get an abortion without parental consent. I find that hypocritical. A girl can make a choice that has to do with her body, and could possibly change her life forever, but I can't have sex with an older woman because I'm not mature enough to make the choice? There's a point to all of this. There's really no such thing as pro-choice, because we can't all/always agree with/condone/tolerate another person's choice.
Well. I take that back. There are true pro-choicers (like me. Do whatever the hell you want. I don't care about your age, sex or whatever. You want to sex a guy three times your age? Feel free. You're a 12 year old that doesn't want to tell daddy about the abortion? I won't tell if you don't.), but they are few and far in between.
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:34 pm
[gossamer] Alot of "pro-choicers" are against my choice to sleep with women over eighteen, though I myself am fourteen. (They say I can't be mature enough to make my own descision.) Yet they have no problem with a girl under eighteen (like fourteen or thirteen) to get an abortion without parental consent. I find that hypocritical. A girl can make a choice that has to do with her body, and could possibly change her life forever, but I can't have sex with an older woman because I'm not mature enough to make the choice? There's a point to all of this. There's really no such thing as pro-choice, because we can't all/always agree with/condone/tolerate another person's choice.
Well. I take that back. There are true pro-choicers (like me. Do whatever the hell you want. I don't care about your age, sex or whatever. You want to sex a guy three times your age? Feel free. You're a 12 year old that doesn't want to tell daddy about the abortion? I won't tell if yotu don't.), but they are few and far in between. I agree that it's unfair, but the problem is what if some little twelve year old gets taken advantage of by an older person and even though they consented, is scarred for life because they feel like their trust was broken. It's such a fine line that you can't tell what should be legal and what shouldn't, so they just make it all illegal to be safe.
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