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 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:21 pm
Hello, everyone! I have a question today about bodily domain and the farreaching consequences to it if abortion is made illegal.
First of all, this is not an attack on pro-lifers, but simply an idea that has been mulling about in my mind for a long time.
Currently, many states have laws that make it mandatory for the parents of a teen to be notified if she has an abortion.
So, let's say that abortion is made illegal in the US.
In the event of a ban, would it be under the parent's jurisdiction if the teenager is to become pregnant or not?
Let me explain more clearly:
Let's say that Mr. and Mrs. Smith have a teenage daughter, but they cannot have anymore children for various reasons due to Mrs. Smith's fertility. Could Mr. Smith, technically, demand his daughter to have sex with someone (or purchase semen from a sperm bank and implant it into his daughter) to make her pregnant and then use the offspring from there?
What about fertility clinics? Could parents technically force their children to become pregnant as surrogates and/or adopt the babies away to friends, family members, and others who are willing to pay for a freshly born (and most likely white due to the sheer demand for white newborns) baby?
Technically, if abortion is made illegal, parents can reap many many thousands of dollars in this kind of practice, even though it is technically illegal, however, keeping their teens pregnant is NOT illegal, due to the legality behind the illegalization of abortion.
Plus, considering that squirting sperm into an unconscious or sleeping teenager is not technically "rape" as it was not "sex" which is usually what people define as rape.
What would the implications for bodily domain be?
What would the implications for underage teenagers be? Would they be exploited by parents? Would it be easier for abusive men to impregnate and therefore create a "bargaining" chip through a child?
Please discuss!
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:38 pm
Oh, my goodness.
I cannot imagine that this would be allowed; however, if the parents were crafty, they could have their daughter impregnated without her consent and, as such, force her to carry on the pregnancy against her will.
The situation would be rare; however, I suppose that it is entirely possible. There are some -- how should I put it? -- (twisted?) parents out there who may contrive such a plan.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:59 pm
'squirting semen into a sleeping teenager ' made me giggle for some reason.
I don't believe that would be too much the case if abortion was made illegal but it could be a minority thing.
what I see if abortion is made illegal - is MILLIONS of orphaned or kids who just are not wanted.
along with millions of women who die from pregnancy and back alley abortions. gonk
EDIT; it's also illegal to pimp or use your children as a storage vessel for drugs etc. so it may be illegal to make them a surrogate, but parents due have the right to tae an organ from their child if they need on, say like bone marrow or a kidney. which is totally unjust IMO so I really do not know where that would stand in the laws.
SECOND EDIT gonk :
Did you perhaps get this idea from a Law and Order SVU episode?
Because they have an episode in which a girl crys rape and they think someone did because they have evidence, but her story does not add up, so they go through the process of trying to find the rapist, which at first they think is the father, but it isn't his semen that they find, but they find two totally random strangers.
what really happened was that the mother was a 'breeder' and thought it was her duty to supply children to the family, but when she could no longer have children she felt useless and thought the family would fall apart, so the husband pays two random men to have sex with his wife.
after they ejaculate in her, the father takes a turkey baster, suctions out the semen from his wife's v****a and 'squirts' it into his daughters v****a.
and the girl, thinking that if the family falls apart it'll be her fault etc.
(she's guilt tripped into it)
Sick right?
The father ended up going to jail~
and the sad part was the girl actually did end up pregnant, but in the end she aborts it
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:28 pm
There is actual precident in reality of two people who wanted to have a child, so the husband used a syringe of some sort to implant semen into the body of their teenaged daughter (who, I believe, was mentally retarded). The girl became pregnant, and someone figured out what was going on, and at the trial, the man testified that it wasn't "rape" and therefore not wrong because he had never sexually touched her.
He had just wanted to use her womb.
*pukes*
It's so gross that people do this kind of s**t.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:46 pm
Well, it all ready scares me shitless that you have to have a parent's signature to get an abortion in my state. gonk My family is very conservative and ugh, just ugh. I'd probably kill myself if I ended up pregnant. Seriously. I would.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:40 pm
That..that thought scares the hell outa me gonk Thank goodness my fathers not like that..or is he ninja
Anyway's that would kill me to think that thousands of rape victems would be forced to bear a child they never intended to have from the start.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:50 pm
I'm going to have to think about this more before I give a decent answer, but I need to make one comment now.
Impregnation of the teenager would at least require penatration with a foreign object. That is sexual assault, and in many states would be sexual assault/molestation of a minor. I think it could also be considered child endangerment.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:11 am
far from being a regular occurrance it could happen.
Intuitively we assume such a thing would be treated as a crime. How dare that girl's parents infringe on her right to bodily domain/autonomy/integrity! It is her body and her choice whether or not she wants to get pregnant via such a method and her parents have no right to force her to get pregnant against her will.
However it also seems intuitive to believe that no one person has a right to use another person's body against their will and in illegalizing abortion that's just what will happen - a fetus will have free reign over a woman's body without her consent.
In order to get to an unsavory conclusion we chip away at the establishment slowly until it no longer seems such a hard intuitive jump to make.
100 years ago interracial marriage would have been obviously wrong. But slowly blacks demanded rights and eventually interracial marriage was legal... but more than that it became socially acceptable and readily condoned. One day interracial marriage may very well be encouraged (as preferential to one-race marriage).
50 years ago gay marraige seemed a mere fantasy, something terrible and horrible. Slowly gays have been demanding equal rights. Right now they're working on marriage. Perhaps in 10 years gays will be allowed to marry, 20 years from now it will seem normal, 30 it may very well be acceptable, and 40 or more it may be something encouraged!
Right now the pro-life movement is chipping away at a woman's right to bodily integrity by first denying such rights to minors, by fighting birth control, late-term abortions, and things people seem ok to let go. Once no one under 18 can get an abortion, once no one past 24 weeks can get an abortion for any reason, once hormonal birth control is banned for being an "abortaficient" they will move further to ban all abortions.
However when women no longer have a right to control their bodies with regard to maintaining a pregnancy, how long until they start chipping away with her right to willingly get pregnant at all? Turkey baster pregnancies on unexpected young women may seem abhorrent and something we are certain will never be allowed... but 100 years ago they were sure interracial marriage would never be allowed... 30 years ago they were sure that gay marriage would never be allowed. Who knows what will happen in the future with regard to rights if a movement continually chips away at them or tries to build them up?
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:52 pm
foxxy_love_sugar Well, it all ready scares me shitless that you have to have a parent's signature to get an abortion in my state. gonk My family is very conservative and ugh, just ugh. I'd probably kill myself if I ended up pregnant. Seriously. I would. I believe that my state has such laws as well, despite being a very liberal state. You can file with a judge to get a permit to have an abortion without parental consent, but, really, who can expect a scared 16-year-old to be able to navigate the court system? Sadly, this spells out disaster for many teenage girls. A close friend of mine had a pregnancy scare a few months back, and there was no way she would be able to tell her parents... much less get thier consent to abort. Sh was willing to put her life in extreme danger to get rid of the child. Thankfully, it turned out that she wasn't pregnant... but, had she been, it's uncertain wether she would still be alive today. Case and point: By restrecting or abolishing abortion, it's not going to make the situation go away, but more drive it underground, to the dangerous realms of back-alley and self-induced abortions. In all honesty, were I to become pregnant, and abortion were illegal, I would either go abroad to have the procedure carried out, or if that were not an option, I do feel I would possibly be willing to put my life in jeporady and have a back-alley abortion... but lets just hope that such a situation never arises...
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:22 pm
That's scary to even comprehend...
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:20 pm
True, that the implantation would require penetration from a foreign object into the child at hand- but considering that parents do have some control over the bodily integrity of their children (force them into taking medicine, force them to get shots) while obviously not enough to force them into sex or pimping them out- is it enough for them to inject semen into their kid if it doesn't otherwise hurt them?
And considering, if abortion were made illegal, women obviously are not given the right to control what happens to their bodies...is it such a big difference? Turkey baster in the v****a, fetus in the uterus.
Ew. Bad mental images right there...
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:33 pm
I could use to this time to post a long explanation of how 'squirting semen' into one's daughter would be considered assault,
or how if abortion were made illegal, more than a few woman would go for back alley abortions, as well as "DIY" abortions, and end up seriously injured, or dead,
but instead, I think I'll just say - this entire conversation is sick gonk
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:02 pm
It may not be "sex" but "squirting semen into a sleeping daughter" would be rape by default, since a sleeping girl cannot legally give consent.
And that is just entirely sick.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:47 pm
Just the very thought of that makes me shudder. Quote: What would the implications for underage teenagers be? Would they be exploited by parents? Would it be easier for abusive men to impregnate and therefore create a "bargaining" chip through a child? Parents can be sick, sick, disgusting people. burning_eyes -Misplaced.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:21 am
what kind of person would do that to their kid?
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