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 Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:20 pm
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:06 am
According to that link, it's not so much questions about basic genetics, but more on whether the general populace accepts Evolution as a valid principle of humanity's existance. If we were talking basic genetics, we'd be referring to punnet squares and Mendelian inheritance. This survey is more designed to test acceptance of Darwin's theories, which is the next step up from Mendel's work.
Just the heads up.
And we both know that America has a good number of those uptight religious folks who don't believe anything unless the Bible specifically states it to be so. Therefore, it's not so much failing at basic genetics as a refusal to believe science over Genesis.
Making school systems into political arenas (with the introduction of having to teach Creationism as an alternative scientific theory... rolleyes ) is stupid. The American school system as a whole is something I can't really pass judgement on; i'm British and have not participated in it.
One thing I can say, is that Americans seem - generally - a lot more confident when it comes to presenting information in front of groups compared to many classes i've seen in Britain. But, being a biological student, having a poor understanding of my favourite subject makes me cast some major hate across the Atlantic.
D:
Smart Americans? Fully separate the Church from the state. Get rid of religion in classrooms besides those lessons specifically meant for studying religion (we have Religious Studies/Education for that). Oh, and stop with the No Child Left Behind s**t. :]
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:55 am
Tailos According to that link, it's not so much questions about basic genetics, but more on whether the general populace accepts Evolution as a valid principle of humanity's existance. If we were talking basic genetics, we'd be referring to punnet squares and Mendelian inheritance. This survey is more designed to test acceptance of Darwin's theories, which is the next step up from Mendel's work. Just the heads up. And we both know that America has a good number of those uptight religious folks who don't believe anything unless the Bible specifically states it to be so. Therefore, it's not so much failing at basic genetics as a refusal to believe science over Genesis. Making school systems into political arenas (with the introduction of having to teach Creationism as an alternative scientific theory... rolleyes ) is stupid. The American school system as a whole is something I can't really pass judgement on; i'm British and have not participated in it. One thing I can say, is that Americans seem - generally - a lot more confident when it comes to presenting information in front of groups compared to many classes i've seen in Britain. But, being a biological student, having a poor understanding of my favourite subject makes me cast some major hate across the Atlantic. D: Smart Americans? Fully separate the Church from the state. Get rid of religion in classrooms besides those lessons specifically meant for studying religion (we have Religious Studies/Education for that). Oh, and stop with the No Child Left Behind s**t. :]Preaching to the choir man. My old high school is on the verge of having that taken into effect because of the test scores, so one day a week, we actually went to a "test prep" class. I was a senior and had already taken the test, so what did we get? Busy work. We werent learning about the Pre-Calculus lessons we were on. We didnt study for the upcoming test... We watched movies on having a good workplace attitude and played e-boggle.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:08 pm
Tailos According to that link, it's not so much questions about basic genetics, but more on whether the general populace accepts Evolution as a valid principle of humanity's existance. Getics are the basics behind evolution. You can't have one without the other. And the questions covered more than just evolution--questions like, 'Do all plants and animals have DNA' is simple knowledge which even a 10 yr old should have. Quote: If we were talking basic genetics, we'd be referring to punnet squares and Mendelian inheritance. This survey is more designed to test acceptance of Darwin's theories, which is the next step up from Mendel's work. Punnet squares and Mendelian inheritance? You realize that s**t was disproved about half a century ago, right? We still teach it to kids because it's a simplified version of reality which almost works, but it's like using the solar system model of the atom--it's wrong. Quote: And we both know that America has a good number of those uptight religious folks who don't believe anything unless the Bible specifically states it to be so. Therefore, it's not so much failing at basic genetics as a refusal to believe science over Genesis. I take it as both, honestly. As a child I believed in the veracity of the Bible, but I also had the good sense to believe in the veracity of science. Quote: Making school systems into political arenas (with the introduction of having to teach Creationism as an alternative scientific theory... rolleyes ) is stupid. The American school system as a whole is something I can't really pass judgement on; i'm British and have not participated in it. Neither science nor religion ought to be politicized... A lot of people came to America in the first place to escape the politicization of religion, and now folks're abandoning that principle in an attempt to turn us into a theocracy, and sacrificing children's educations in the process... Quote: One thing I can say, is that Americans seem - generally - a lot more confident when it comes to presenting information in front of groups compared to many classes i've seen in Britain. I think that's just because we're full of ourselves and think wer're great. razz Quote: Smart Americans? Fully separate the Church from the state. Get rid of religion in classrooms besides those lessons specifically meant for studying religion (we have Religious Studies/Education for that). Agreed. Quote: Oh, and stop with the No Child Left Behind s**t. :] NCLB isn't so bad as folks make it out to be, as far as I know. It's just an underfunded mandate about testing...
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:10 pm
PhantomPhoenix0 We watched movies on having a good workplace attitude and played e-boggle. Good workplace attitude is better than some things you could have been learning... razz
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:10 pm
Sylphi Genetics are the basics behind evolution. You can't have one without the other. And the questions covered more than just evolution--questions like, 'Do all plants and animals have DNA' is simple knowledge which even a 10 yr old should have. I understand that evolution requires a fundamental grasp of genetics. But that's only to realise HOW evolution takes place; the average person doesn't NEED to realise how it takes place, just that it does. Of course, knowing how is good and smart. That's all i'm saying: the survey seemed more geared to whether the general populace believed in evolution or creationism. Not testing their knowledge on how it works. But, I will gladly submit to that final point on plant and animal DNA being simple knowledge. Quote: Punnet squares and Mendelian inheritance? You realize that s**t was disproved about half a century ago, right? We still teach it to kids because it's a simplified version of reality which almost works, but it's like using the solar system model of the atom--it's wrong. We still teach it as it covers the basic concepts, and therefore my point is valid. It wasn't so much disproved as a better model came up that allows much better accuracy on genetic models. Without Mendel's work, none of this could have been possible. For the record, I still prefer using the solar system model of the atom simply because it is easier to understand than being taught the true atomic model when I was 12. I don't think I have anything more to say besides agreement on the rest.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:42 pm
I also agree with sticking to the solar system model of the atom, or at least the 'shells' model (which is a notch more advanced), even though neither is accurate, because until you really get into esoteric, quantum levels, both are serviceable models that are easy to put your head around. Just make sure to explain to the students that the reality is more complex. smile
EDITED for clarity: In general, simpler models are important for explenation. The reality of an object's rate of fall requires extreme amounts of calculus and science, but saying that it's speed is "(Rate of gravity)*(Time falling) - (Air resistance)*(Time)" is reasonably accurate and gets the idea across. These simpler concepts are enough for philosophical thinking, which can help withgetting evolution accepted.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:45 am
Sylphi Quote: Oh, and stop with the No Child Left Behind s**t. :] NCLB isn't so bad as folks make it out to be, as far as I know. It's just an underfunded mandate about testing... It's not an effective way to judge the academic ability of a school, as it has too many division based on race, instead of the school's holistic performance, and is really just based on one test. Kids could be doing fine in all their classes, and just be bad test takers, and it would count them as failing. Additionally, I dislike it because of all those not-so-hidden clauses about "Let's give everyone's information to the military!" Anyways, I generally find that a problem with the American system is also thi attitude of, "Let's keep modifying things so that people can take the easy way out!" The lower passing limit for test scores to become teachers, for instance, is being decreased so that we can get more teachers. Most Americans are calculator-dependant beyond all reason, and some suburbs even preach, "Let them do the whole algebra problem on the calculator, because it's understanding the theory that counts!" Psh. Not to mention, the whole mentality I see all to often that, "Oh, math and science are hard. I shouldn't have to put effort into them, because I'm not an inherently smart person." Ever heard of the basic respect for an issue, to put in the effort to solve it, even if it is not second nature to you? Yeesh. I'm done criticising "my" country, for now.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:48 pm
Sadly, I don't really know whether or not to believe this.
Mainly because, technically, you can do tons of tests, but the "results" are often skewed based on your control group. The article gives no good statistics or numbers based on who was involved in the study, and as far as I can say, the news people probably exaggerated it a lot more.
I can see that the media, in many ways, wants to give the public what it wants to hear, so the comparison between Americans and Islamic Fundamentalists was probably there to make a jab at Bush and raise ratings.
While I would not doubt that a lot of kids in schools don't know a lot about science, it's more of the fault of the people themselves, than anything else.
Most people, after school, forget the stuff they "learned" in school because they have OTHER s**t TO THINK ABOUT. Who cares about evolution if you're working at Target without benefits or sick leave? Who cares about how big the sun is or how old the planet is if you're unemployed and you can't get work?
And for kids, well, since most of their parents seem largely ignorant (and forget about their initial learning), they think that concepts like science and evolution and all that stuff is largely unimportant as well.
It's more important to to go church and be in a group of social acceptance or whatever than it is to know how inertia works, at least to many people.
So, I think that perhaps the test results were skewed, simply because many Americans just go "I'll choose randomly" on most standardized tests that "count for nothing" and considering that many of us who live in the US DO know a lot about DNA, Evolution, etc, it's not hard for me to say that largely, this article is quite exaggerated.
Those are my speculations, though.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:25 am
Why the American school system sucks. students care less and less about education because no one cares if they go their pholociphy is get paid, laid, and made
How to make Americans smarter. make it so you have to have a high school diploma to get a good paying job. there are lots of jobs that have good pay that anone can get
What this means for America. america is going to fall bush has put this country into trillions of dollars of sebt that are great-grandkids will still be paying plus the apocolypse says nothing about the u.s. so its not woth worrying about
How to get the religion out of politics/school. its not in school as it is barely anyone in school cares about religion. politics there are more christians than any other religion so they are appeling to numbers. i don't think we can ever trullyget religion out of anything because of freedom of religion
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:11 pm
Tailos According to that link, it's not so much questions about basic genetics, but more on whether the general populace accepts Evolution as a valid principle of humanity's existance. If we were talking basic genetics, we'd be referring to punnet squares and Mendelian inheritance. This survey is more designed to test acceptance of Darwin's theories, which is the next step up from Mendel's work. Just the heads up. And we both know that America has a good number of those uptight religious folks who don't believe anything unless the Bible specifically states it to be so. Therefore, it's not so much failing at basic genetics as a refusal to believe science over Genesis. Making school systems into political arenas (with the introduction of having to teach Creationism as an alternative scientific theory... rolleyes ) is stupid. The American school system as a whole is something I can't really pass judgement on; i'm British and have not participated in it. One thing I can say, is that Americans seem - generally - a lot more confident when it comes to presenting information in front of groups compared to many classes i've seen in Britain. But, being a biological student, having a poor understanding of my favourite subject makes me cast some major hate across the Atlantic. D: Smart Americans? Fully separate the Church from the state. Get rid of religion in classrooms besides those lessons specifically meant for studying religion (we have Religious Studies/Education for that). Oh, and stop with the No Child Left Behind s**t. :] being an american, I take no offense at your statements. why? because I'm one of the smart ones! (or so I've lead you to believe). if it were up to me, Every Child Left Behind would be demolished. it simply doesnt work in the county I've grown up in. why you may ask? because the population of people under 18 is less than 17%. most places have enough of a youth population to make that system work....but it still doesnt work. It (ECLB) was a nice concept...but poorly executed....as for Americans being stupid...I'm not going to deny that at all. but I will point this out: most countries have stupid (more specifically Ignorant) people.
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