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 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:01 pm
I have a few qualms with the respecting all animals and sentient beings and not killing any animal.
First, does that require us to be vegetarian or even vegan? I stick to not eating things that stand on four legs. It's kinda like intro to vegitarianism 4laugh
Second, the animals don't respect us as sentient beings, there's a thing called the "food chain," and although we're on top in a way, I don't understand why we can't kill mosquitos and flies.
Third, can we even kill plants? Scietific studies show a burst of life energy right before a plant is cut. So technically they're sentient??
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:34 am
Technically, a requirement of living is harming something else. That's just how it is - plant or animal, bug or bacteria, something's going to get hurt by your being here. It's more a matter of mitigating the damage than actually trying to stop it, as the only way to stop it is dying, which, unless you're already enlightened and ready for Paranirvana, is just going to add to the time damage gets done anyway.
The more austere Jains try to take the stopping of this harm to a bit of an extreme - wearing masks so they don't inhale bugs, sweeping their paths so they don't step on anything in their way, and not eating anything but fruit that's already fallen from the tree. A hard way for most people to live, that.
As for the Buddhist way about it, it depends on how you look at it. For most, vegetarianism is preferable, but not everyone lives that way. For instance, I'm one and my husband isn't - both of us are Buddhists. His view is that the animals weren't killed for his specific consumption, and he didn't have to do the work himself, therefore he can eat 'em with no problems. Mine? I just felt like being vegetarian. There really wasn't an ethical thing to it, I just sort of stopped eating meat. If it's better for me, it's better for me. If not, meh - I tried.
And who's to say animals don't respect us as sentient beings? Cats, dogs and other larger mammals definitely respond to humans as if they were, at minimum, a pack leader or a larger version of their own species. As for killing flies and mosquitos, why do you need to? Sure, they're pests, but hey, they'll die on their own shortly. Their lives are already harsh enough without the help. After thinking on it, actually, I've started to just coexist with any spiders and whatnot that show up at my apartment - they get a nice warm place to live, I get another roomie. It works out. xd
About plants, I don't know. I had that same argument once. I can't say if they are or aren't sentient beings - I just know that in the grocery store, they're already dead, I didn't pick them and kill them myself, and I have to eat something...so there you go. May not be the most Buddhist answer, but it's why I'm still eating them.
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:28 pm
Wow thanks! Makes a lot of sense. 4laugh and I love your avatar!
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:35 pm
I love the austere Jains..they are inspiring, but unfortunately...to me Jainism is too extreme..well I am not sure if it is actually extreme but for me I feel it is but my respect to the Jains though.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:43 am
I'm Hindu but I still relate to this question. ^^; I don't eat beef, but I will on occasion have chicken or fish .. I love fruits and vegetables and I get my main source of nutrition from them. <3
I've been thinking about cutting chicken out of my diet but it will be hard ^^; everyone around me eats it.
When it comes to killing animals like insects - I've come to terms with the little buggers. n_n I have little baby spiders that roam around my room, so tiny you can barely see them. They don't ever seem to get bigger. So I just let them roam and if one gets on my bed and crawls on me, I just direct him back to the carpet. xD They don't do any harm. The mosquitoes around here are deadly gonk .. literally. Most of the have West Nile. So if I see one I generally don't mind if it gets squished. sweatdrop Same thing with roaches. >_<;;; We grow plants where I live, tomatoes and such. I believe they are sentient so I try to take care of all the plants with love. I try to not step on flowers and use sidewalks if I'm wearing heavy shoes.
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:42 pm
I think.. insects and stuff deserve to live a bit. Sure, I eat meat.. but when I see spiders, or flies... or any sort of crawly thing, I'll catch it and throw it outside.
I even do it at school.. and there was this one time, where an ant was crawling on a lab table in my chemistry class, and my teacher was leaning against the side of the table... and it went on his shirt. Seeing me (as well as my friend next to me, who had also pointed the ant out too) staring at him.. he asked what was wrong, and I eventually asked him if I could take the ant and place it outside.
The all thought I was crazy when I came back. ;__;
But it would have eventually got squished sooner or later.. at least it could live a wee bit longer?
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:03 pm
I tried being a vegitarian, didnt work for me.
I eat meat and respect that the animal that died for it. Since it was already killed before i bought it, it would be disrespectful (in my mind) to waste it. I dont mind hunting, as long as you respect the animal and use as many parts of it as possible. Im opposed to canned hunting though, its not fair.
I wont kill bugs now, but my family does. My mom believes that spiders are evil and she freaksout and kills them when she sees em.
Personally i dont mind em~ Ive retired my hotshot insecticide to the closet :}
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:05 am
1) I'm not a vegetarian. I think of it more in terms of survival than morality. I eat what a purchase and I eat it out of necessity :/ This also can apply the other way around too; if I was thrown into a room with a hungry lion without any means of protection I'd obviously get eaten, but do I blame the lion for my death? He was just hungry and I was right there o.o; Sure it sucks for me that I'm food and all, but I'm just a part of the circle of survival (food chain, etc etc)
2) For most animals it's a mutual respect. Like I said before animals eat out of necessity. As far as the bug thing goes I myself have a problem with ants, I... can't focus when I see one and I have to either kill it or leave the room before I can do anything else >>; It's something I have to work on. But anyway I guess for me it's the intent that has more bearing than the actual act. Stepping on a bug accidentally and frying ants with a magnifying glass are two different things. It stands to reason that trying your best not to kill anything without going to extremes would be the best way to go about doing things, but thats just me :/
3) I'm not sure if plants are sentient beings, but I treat them as sentient beings anyway.
Again I refer to my first statement in regards to survival. I have no problems with eating plants to survive. Should the plant reincarnate into some other form of living thing I'm sure it'll do the same x3;;
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:00 pm
I'm a vegetarian, I take insects outside if they're causing me a problem. The exception to that are insects like mosquitos, ticks, fleas, and poisonous spiders. If an insect is going to cause me, my loved ones, and my pets harm, I'm going to kill it... I'll feel bad about it, but I'll still kill it because I have a responsibility to keep myself and those I care for out of harm's way. Fortunately, an ounce of prevention can minimize the number of insects I have to kill. I wear insect repellant when I'm out walking so things don't come and bite me, I put advantage (a topical medication) on my cats so that fleas don't infest the apartment, I make sure to clean up food items so there's nothing in my apartment to attract cockroaches and other insects the thrive on food waste.
Really, I've had to kill all of two bugs in the last year. One was a tick that was imbedded in my back, another was a flea that jumped off my cat when I was a few days late with his medication.
Not that much of a problem.
Regarding plants... well... most of what we eat of plants are seeds, fruits, fronds, etc. The one thing that we eat that actually KILLS the plant are roots, and at least with things like potatos you can replant the from the eyes, so if you do, is that a plant dead or not? I don't know where I stand morally on the matter... but I do know that I need to eat SOMETHING, and you can't live healthily on just windfallen fruit, it's nutritionally impossible.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:58 pm
If your alive, something is dead becuase of it. Its a fact. While having compasion for all living things is imporant, until you die, your going to have to live with saying a prayer for everthing that died for you.
So why go veggie?
For me their is only one really good reason. Building mindfulness. If you dont eat meat and/or animal products, simply having a meal requires just a bit more thinking. It means you have to think about where that food came from. Personaly I think its a great way to act with compassion towards the world and increase your own level of awarness.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:21 pm
If our bodies are merely shells that we inhabit while here on Earth then killing a living creature out of survival isn't really that big of a problem. In fact, it is necessary for the health and survival of our planet's ecosystems. If nothing ever killed anything then everything would become overpopulated. It's Nature/God's way of keeping everything in balance.
However, overkilling and torture killing is just unacceptable.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:41 am
I'm not vegetarian but I try not to eat to much meat, because of respect for the animal. Bugs, snails, spiders etc. I try not to harm and catch gently to set them free outside in the nature/garden. I find this very important and do it since I can walk... When its raining and I find a snail or worm on the path I'm walking I gently pick it up and set it to a safe place so that noone does step on it by accident... Some people find that strange when we're walking through the city and I always rescue these animals. but I feel I have to...
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