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There are so many things wrong with this it's not even funny

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What's this girl's problem?
  She's been brainwashed
  She just suffers from ignorance
  God.
  Nothing's wrong with her.
  She lives in the cottage with me
  OOGABOOGA!!!
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Lethkhar

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:46 pm
Ok, so I'm venturing through the ED, and I find an interesting thread titled "Religion is Control".

This is the original post:

[E Master E]
Religion is, in my opinion, a form of control that keeps the peasants in order. All religions preach basic principals that strike people in their fear of death and exploit this fear. Most humans are afraid to cease existing therefore leaving a hole that religion fills at the price of one’s intellectual freedom.

People developed religion around the same time the moved from hunter-gathers to city dwellers. As people became clumped together they developed culture and abstract thought. This abstract thought lead to humans wondering what followed death and what created the world. People fused the ideas together and religion developed. Religious leaders saw the power they had. If people look up to one man who represents the gods they tend to believe everything he says. Religion was then fused with law to create strong societies.

Religion then ran into problems as people began to explore the avenues of science and philosophy. Much of the myth about the gods was cleared when people learned that most things were caused by nature and not the gods who had never appeared to the masses except in legends. Not long after this enlightenment the Christian religion took prominence in the Roman Empire. The Christians formed a church in which they developed a dogma and threw away many would be texts in favor of those that preached people must go to church in order to go to heaven. The most famous being the Gospel of John. Christanity became the official religion of the Roman Empire under Emperor Constantine.

Romans forced conversions threw out their falling empire. Christianity became dominant in Europe for the next 1300 years. At about the same time Islam developed in the Middle East and Buddhism took control of Eastern Asia.

Christianity took control of people by making them put church at the center of their lives and living humbly. It also reassured the poor that the rich would have an unfavorable afterlife. Islam made itself the most important part of the person’s life and demanding that no one try to question God (Allah). Buddhism taught people to be humble and control their actions preventing revolts and violent actions. Hinduism doesn’t allow anyone to change classes so the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich.

As the era of Imperialism grew Christians forced Natives of Asia and North America to convert and work for the church as slaves. The religion tamed anyone who would resist foreign rule. Islam also took roots in Africa and Asia through mass conversion and Islamic trading.

In the 1600s the Protestants split from the Catholic Church. Religious wars followed as well as those who tortured those who might stray from the denomination that worked for. “Witches” were burned alive as well as Heretics who insulted the church or posed scientific question that didn’t match the church’s ideals.

With the bloom of Democracy religions the world threw feel threaten by science and deny it. Religion also no longer needs to act as law as the central government is now able to control its people. The modern day shows religion attempting to hold on to it’s dying power.

To further the distrot of religion there has been a raise of Socialism, Communism , and far left Anarchism. Most of the mainstream leaders of such movements have talked of removing this religious control upon people because of it's dividing nature and potenial for harm on society, which those movements are trying to better. It is fair to say that religion has run it's course.

This is not discrediting the ideals of faith and belief which are fine on a personal level, but when extended to churchs with class orders can cause stress upon society and impact them greatly.


Ok. So I agree with most of this, and start talking about it. I refute things like "HITLER WAZ AN ATHEIST!!!" (He was a Christian according the the Mein Kampf). But then I find this post, which enraged me beyond human comprehension:

soulesschick
Depends on what religion. Bhuddism, where you have to make offerings and sacrifices unless you'll anger the gods, that's control. I'm christian-catholic. Personally we don't control you. WE try to help you in a way. Show you a better life yada yada. But we don't control you. (At least not here in the Bahamas)


I was shocked. I mean, I'm not a Buddhist, but I'm pretty sure Buddhists don't even have ONE god, and they certainly don't make sacrfices to one.

I mean, it's an atheist religion, isn't it? More of a philosophy than a religion.

And then she goes on about how Catholics don't try to control you. It was ludicrous. I was seriously in shock. How could anyone be so ignorant?

Comments? Corrections?

Do we have any Buddhists in the house?  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:58 pm
Well.. that was special.

There are no gods in Buddhism. And no sacrifices I think.

So yeah, go ignorance. Much better than the alternatives.  

Redem


Yami_Ichi

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:22 pm
Some of the sentances and what-not in here were a bit hard to understand, as the author used "threw" in many places where he should have used "through", so I got a bit confused. I got it eventually, but the sentacnces didn't quite make sense.

This man is actually quite right. Religion is the largest form of control we have on this planet. The pope has almost as much power, if not more, than the president. I mean, if the pope told everyone to go out and kill everyone, they most likely would.

This just reinstates what I have thought for a long time; religion is brainwashing, and fills holes where you are missing something. Don't have the love of someone? You cling to the hope that you have someone there who will always love you no matter what.

This was an interesting article overall, but I do suggest a small bit of better grammar. ><
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:33 pm
"People developed religion around the same time the moved from hunter-gathers to city dwellers. "

In general, I get the idea of religious control but the writer should either do a lot more reading or stick to philosophy aspects. I was not aware that all of humanity made a step straight from gathering food to city dwelling and THEN developed religion across the world. Also, some of the logic the person uses isn't really accurate but more like just their opinion of how it happened.

"The Christians formed a church in which they developed a dogma and threw away many would be texts in favor of those that preached people must go to church in order to go to heaven."

That's definitely not how you become saved as a Christian. Fellowship with other christians and being part of the body of the church is taught as an important for your life as a christian and you are supposed to give a tithe, etc, but that's not what it takes to really make it to heaven.
I notice there's no mention of Christians being killed by the Romans or how it started amongst other small cult religions.

"It also reassured the poor that the rich would have an unfavorable afterlife."
That's not true either. Poor are reassured as not being any worse in God's eyes than the rich and that if anything, the rich have a disadvantage in being more likely to be less righteous.

There's just a lot of things that are left out. I'm sure there are people who could pick it apart better than I can, but the idea that they are trying to get at about control is a good one. A much better argument could be written for it.

Yami- "The pope has almost as much power, if not more, than the president. I mean, if the pope told everyone to go out and kill everyone, they most likely would."

I guess that's just an example that's exaggerated, but obviously people wouldn't be quite that blind at the pope's request. Definitely not as much power as the president. The Pope used to also control land, the papal states before italy was divided, and not just the church. Well, I think other leaders could get it done though. Certain extremist leaders, but not the pope.
I'll stop being picky now xD

Anyways, I think religion has more control in the form of morality and being used as a tool to justify policy. Or in other ways, it's very directly and effectively used by extremists. It's something that will tie a group together better than just patriotism or any other cause alone probably ever could.

I don't think I really need to say anything about the Buddhism comment. That's a bit glaringly off base. Just a bit. o.x I do remember a certain old school-old testament god that liked that sort of sacrifice thing though.
 

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Sanguvixen

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:25 pm
It was pretty well thought out, but as Caustic said...there seem to be a few things that the person needs to look into better.

Religion existed before people went from hunter-gatherer to city dweller.

Cities began when technology allowed for better transportation of goods. Basically it wasn't until the advent of horse drawn objects that cities really ever came into being. This is because in order for there to be cities there must be a way to supply food to the cities. That is why small towns often lived very close to farms or were farm towns themselves. However when technology became more efficent, and food could be transported longer distances without spoiling...that is when we began to have the cities that resemble what we have today.

However religion existed before then. Or at least an idea of there being a Creator did.

Native Americans were Hunter-Gatherers...and most of them beleived in a supreme being called The Creator. They never spent much time however drawing out the idea as they were more interested in pleasing nature to ensure that the world they cannot control does not destroy them.

Native Americans actually had a pretty accurate view and perception of the world, which is why I feel it is a great tragedy that people did what they did to them.

They had various animal totems and were actually very deep in spirituality.

In Africa there were also various tribes that worshipped various deities, and their worship went on even before they started making permanent dwellings.

Religion started out as a way to fill in the holes and ease the need to understand. However I think it is true that once people began to realize how powerful religion is, it's use became less innocent, and turned from mind easement to mind control.

As it stands that function has not changed much at all.
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:48 pm
The reaction and material posted by the second person stated in the post is actually easily understandable. I call this the Chain Phenomena which goes something like this:

Person 1 is religious. Person 2 is religious.

Person 1 and Person 2 marry. Person 1 and 2 create A1...a religious couple they are.

Person 3 is religious. Person 4 is religious.

Person 3 and Person 4 marry. Person 3 and 4 create B1...a religious couple they are.

A1 creates 4 progeny. All four progeny are raised from the beginning with the idea of A1's religion. All four progeny are sent to church. All four grow up accepting the idea of God, and know no other idea.

The four Progeny of A1 become religious adults.

They are Persons 5, 6, 7, and 8.

B1 creates 3 progeny. All three progeny are raised from the beginning with the idea of accepting B1's religion. All three progeny are sent to church. All three progeny grow up accepting the idea of God, and know no other idea.

The three progeny of B1 become religious adults.

They are Persons 9, 10, and 11.

Person 5 and Person 10 are both religious adults. They fall in love and marry. They become C1...a religious couple.

C1 has 3 progeny. All three progeny are raised with the idea of C1's Religion(the same as C1's Parents). They are all sent to church. They are raised with the idea of there existing a god.

As teenagers all three progeny of C1 are unable to understand a view other than that of there existing a god. Thus they will argue vehemently on Gaia even though they do not understand why they follow religion. They also will not know anything about thier religion other than was is told by C1, and the church C1 attends.

From there another chain is created when one of the Progeny marries to another religious person. The chain keeps on going, with each generation adding a new link.

I call this the Chain Phenomena, because it seems that the further a person is on the chain...the less they are able to comprehend why they are religious, and the less they are able to accept that they are inborn with the idea of acceptance.

Now it completely possible that the Progeny of a religious couple can turn to another religion or turn Athiest...but that is irrelevent. This deals with why people can be so ignorant.

It is not because they choose to be. It is because...in a way, they were born that way. Unless they do some information searching of thier own with sources outside the chain...they will remain ignorant and ill-informed.

For a long time I have tried to find away to explain my idea of the Chain Phenomena...hopefully this works.
 

Sanguvixen

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