|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:05 pm
So, we're made in God's image, right? So (some people say) there's no way evolution could ever be real. (Despite, you know... the proof.)
So, where's it say that God doesn't change? That his image doesn't shift over the millenia, and, in turn, effect our form? Because everything else in the known universe changes. So why even assume that God wouldn't?
(... I could be wrong, of course. It might say somewhere that he doesn't. But you'd think people would have used it in evolution arguments if that were the case.)
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:31 pm
Guacamole-kun (Despite, you know... the proof.) Evolution is just a theory.. There is no proof.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:55 pm
OMG its Luisito Guacamole-kun (Despite, you know... the proof.) Evolution is just a theory.. There is no proof. That is untrue. Evolution is a scientific theory, which is considerably different than the standard usage of the word "theory". For example, even gravity is still "just a theory" in scientific terms. This is a decent starting point for proof that evolutionary theory is correct: 29+ Evidences for MacroevolutionFor further discussion, please go to the "Evolution and Creation" thread in this forum. Back on topic, I can't say I've ever heard "Because we were made in God's image, evolution can't be true!" before. While there are plenty of nonsense Creationist arguments out there, that doesn't seem to be a particularly common one.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:02 pm
Sinner Back on topic, I can't say I've ever heard "Because we were made in God's image, evolution can't be true!" before. While there are plenty of nonsense Creationist arguments out there, that doesn't seem to be a particularly common one. Hmm.. really? I thought that was... wait! Then what is the reason many Christians don't believe in evolution? ^^;;;;
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:24 pm
Guacamole-kun Sinner Back on topic, I can't say I've ever heard "Because we were made in God's image, evolution can't be true!" before. While there are plenty of nonsense Creationist arguments out there, that doesn't seem to be a particularly common one. Hmm.. really? I thought that was... wait! Then what is the reason many Christians don't believe in evolution? ^^;;;; 'Cuz they're stupid. (Not all Christians, just the Creationists.) Although their excuses tend to vary. Many are based on the assertion that because the Bible is true, Genesis must be interpreted in a way that contradicts evolutionary theory. A more clever excuse that has gained in popularity is the idea of "irreducible complexity," saying that the universe is too complex to have originated by any manner except the design of a greater being. In any event, "reasons" for Creationism tend to focus more on attacking evolution then asserting that because evolution is flawed, God must have created the universe.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:05 pm
I always though that we are the end result of what God wanted. I like to look at it as, God made things possible, he lined up specific senarios, specific conditions and his ultimate goal was to end up with a species in his own image. None of what God did was a mistake, it was all planned out, how we would become what we are. We are the final form, made completely in God's image. I really dont know how to put this into the words I am thinking. I just always thought that thigns happen for a reason, and they happen a certain way for a reason. Because of evolution we have different species all over, and then we have man. The ultimate species. A logical species. One that has power over instint, one that is a reflection of God's image, the ones who are to praise him, love him, and fear him.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:19 pm
Wait wait, first you should define what you mean by "evolution." Evolution does exist, as it is just the process of developing or gradual developement. But as far as evolution gos, there are chemical, cosmic, stellar and planetary, organic, macro-, and micro- evolutions.
One side step: I abhor the statement that just Creationists are stupid as said above. That's alike to saying, oh, no Catholics are saved. It's no one's place to say either.
But Creationists don't start out theories solely to contradict evolutionary theory. A proper conduct of a Creationist would be to start observations from a certain base, idea, or neutral standpoint and see how the results may or may not vary from other theories such as evolution. Any conclusions would be based on the observed or interpreted data. May I inquire as to what kind of Creationists you've met beforehand?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:05 pm
Guacamole-kun So, we're made in God's image, right? So (some people say) there's no way evolution could ever be real. (Despite, you know... the proof.)So, where's it say that God doesn't change? That his image doesn't shift over the millenia, and, in turn, effect our form? Because everything else in the known universe changes. So why even assume that God wouldn't? (... I could be wrong, of course. It might say somewhere that he doesn't. But you'd think people would have used it in evolution arguments if that were the case.)So, because we are made in God's image, God is also changeable? God is eternal. Are we? No. God is infinite. Are we? No. God is perfect. Are we? No. God is holy. Are we? No. Do you see what God is that we aren't? God is transcendent, but we are not.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:09 am
Death T-2 Wait wait, first you should define what you mean by "evolution." Evolution does exist, as it is just the process of developing or gradual developement. But as far as evolution gos, there are chemical, cosmic, stellar and planetary, organic, macro-, and micro- evolutions. Fair enough, but it's safe to say that this is referring to what is commonly known as "evolutionary theory", or the theory that evolution explains the state of life on the Earth. "Macro-evolution" is probably the term you're looking for, even if the distinction is a nebulous one. Quote: But Creationists don't start out theories solely to contradict evolutionary theory. A proper conduct of a Creationist would be to start observations from a certain base, idea, or neutral standpoint and see how the results may or may not vary from other theories such as evolution. Any conclusions would be based on the observed or interpreted data. May I inquire as to what kind of Creationists you've met beforehand? The kind who don't do that. And frankly, none of them do. It'd be nice if they actually did, since disproving their arguments would be even easier that way, but they don't.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:32 am
Theopneustos So, because we are made in God's image, God is also changeable? God is eternal. Are we? No. God is infinite. Are we? No. God is perfect. Are we? No. God is holy. Are we? No. Do you see what God is that we aren't? God is transcendent, but we are not. Yes, but that isn't really addressing the issue. Guacamole-kun isn't saying that because we change, God must change as well. Instead, what is being suggested is that we don't have any reason to assume that God doesn't change.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:03 pm
Ginger Snapple I always though that we are the end result of what God wanted. I like to look at it as, God made things possible, he lined up specific senarios, specific conditions and his ultimate goal was to end up with a species in his own image. None of what God did was a mistake, it was all planned out, how we would become what we are. We are the final form, made completely in God's image. I really dont know how to put this into the words I am thinking. I just always thought that thigns happen for a reason, and they happen a certain way for a reason. Because of evolution we have different species all over, and then we have man. The ultimate species. A logical species. One that has power over instint, one that is a reflection of God's image, the ones who are to praise him, love him, and fear him. Hmm... but how about this: maybe there's more than one way to be perfect. Just because something changes doesn't mean it has to be getting better or worse. What I mean is, just because we used to be different, that doesn't have to be because God made a mistake. It could be exactly what he intended. To everyone else: Sinner's pretty much got it covered. ^^; Thank you Sinner.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:12 pm
Sinner Theopneustos So, because we are made in God's image, God is also changeable? God is eternal. Are we? No. God is infinite. Are we? No. God is perfect. Are we? No. God is holy. Are we? No. Do you see what God is that we aren't? God is transcendent, but we are not. Yes, but that isn't really addressing the issue. Guacamole-kun isn't saying that because we change, God must change as well. Instead, what is being suggested is that we don't have any reason to assume that God doesn't change. I thought that Guacamole-kun was trying to say that because humans change, and because humans are made in the image of God, why not assume the same thing about God. And so, I showed Guacamole-kun the attributes of God in comparison with ours, only to show that just because we change, we don't need to assume that God changes. Can anything change apart from time and space? The Creator is not the same as His creation.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:18 pm
Theopneustos I thought that Guacamole-kun was trying to say that because humans change, and because humans are made in the image of God, why not assume the same thing about God. After rereading his original post, I'd still say that you're misinterpreting it.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:57 pm
A quick trip on Google and an online Bible has shown me a few references that support that God is unchangeble.
Malachi 3:6 James 1:17 1 Samuel 15:29 Numbers 23:19 Hebrews 6:17
I'm sure there are more to be found by cross-referencing and in-depth Bible study, but I lack the time at present.
But if God's image changed, then how would we know that his policies and commandments didn't as well? It doesn't make sense that He might change salvation around every millenia or re-sacrifice Jesus. It would kind of destroy the entire Bible. Personally, my faith would be thrown if that were so.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:22 pm
Theopneustos Sinner Theopneustos So, because we are made in God's image, God is also changeable? God is eternal. Are we? No. God is infinite. Are we? No. God is perfect. Are we? No. God is holy. Are we? No. Do you see what God is that we aren't? God is transcendent, but we are not. Yes, but that isn't really addressing the issue. Guacamole-kun isn't saying that because we change, God must change as well. Instead, what is being suggested is that we don't have any reason to assume that God doesn't change. I thought that Guacamole-kun was trying to say that because humans change, and because humans are made in the image of God, why not assume the same thing about God. And so, I showed Guacamole-kun the attributes of God in comparison with ours, only to show that just because we change, we don't need to assume that God changes. Can anything change apart from time and space? The Creator is not the same as His creation. No, no, Sinner's right, I was indeed wondering why it was assumed that God does not change. Sorry it wasn't too clear.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|