|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:18 pm
"Sometimes, we come up with ideas that aren't thoroughly implemented the way you guys want to see."
HI, YEAH, THE RP POINT "REHAUL" IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THIS The recent re-haul has brought up a number of concerns. In the previous update, things were made specifically to make it easier for shop-goers to earn rp points, and this most recent one feels more like a way to keep us from earning any. Users were already having a hard time with the 100 words per post for 5 posts minimum, and yet you have upped that minimum word count to double that, if not triple it. That is crap.Many users who had a hard time hitting that 100 words per post will have to now do at least triple the amount of posts to hit that 2 or 3 thousand word count. Not everyone has the time or energy or muse to do that. I agree with using the final word count total of the whole rp to determine how "finished" it is. For those that write a bit more and those that write a bit less, that will help to keep the stress of having to hit minimum word counts per post down. The fact that ORPs don't count as "RP" that you can redeem for points, regardless of who starts them, is ridiculous. RP is literally in the name. They should be given a minimum to hit, the exact same as every other rp, and so long as that is hit and the orp is over, they should be able to be claimed for points. ESPECIALLY shop started ones. Yes users can get trinkets and/or prizes, but the shop is also trying to encourage people to come in and roleplay with their characters. Not to mention, why bother making the requirements for growth's stay the same? As I said before, quite a few individuals I've spoken with have said that they have a hard time meeting those requirements and you aren't changing those to make it easier for people to meet. If you want to grow your kid, you have to do the classes, and the 3 roleplays. The only people you can bribe to do your growth is the artist, and so far the only one I've seen take growth bribes is Embi and that not in at least 2 months. It is ridiculous to have two different systems in place for this. A roleplay is not considered finished until there are 1000 words per person involved in the roleplay. You do not necessarily need to write 1000 words each, just collectively. For example, a solo needs to be 1000 words, a pair needs to write 2000 words, three people need to write 3000 words, etc.
VS
finished roleplay's* that have at least ten posts per roleplay (five posts per person, min of 100 words per post). Here's the requirements for growths in terms of roleplays, for those of you who don't know. Quote: Growth Reqs, pulled directly from the Growth Application threadFreshling to Junior: 2 finished roleplay's* that have at least ten posts per roleplay (five posts per person, min of 100 words per post). 1 roleplay that shows what the freshling wants to be when they grow up, or a life changing event. This can be a solo. (Solo rps must be 250 words minimum!) Junior to Senior2 finished roleplay's* with at least ten posts per roleplay (five posts per person, min of 100 words per post). 1 roleplay that shows how they've matured (or lack of maturity), or a life changing event. This can be a solo. (Solo rps must be 250 words minimum!) Senior to graduate1 finished solo detailing their reason for going to university. *Event ORPs threads do not count towards growth requirements, as they are shop hosted RPs. Privately hosted ORPs are exempt from this. NOTE: META events DO count for growths, as they are world changing events. You may use them for your character's life changing event RP or as a general RP requirement. The point of getting rp points is to reward those individuals who do rp with RP Points that they can use for one of the prizes available. Let me repeat that. The point of getting rp points is to reward those individuals who do finish rps. To encourage people to rp with one another. The few individuals I have spoken with have told me that this new revamp of the rp point system actually discourages them from rping. Aside from those few who are determined to grow kids, the incentive for completing rps to get points for new kids, outfits, etc, is nothing. Those few who want to rp just to rp their kids, do so elsewhere because it doesn't do them any good to post it in the forum. About the new limit for rp point redemption, I believe the limit should be upped to at least 200 points. That allows shopgoers to get at least 2 full customs if they have the points for it. Currently you could get 2 semi's and that's it. or 1 full custom and a familiar or a couple alt outfits. The few people spending points have done it for semi's or full customs or like 1 whole familiar or I got a couple alt outfits once in like April or May. Seeing how the ENTIRE POINT of rp points is once again, to reward those individuals who do finish rps, they should be able to 'purchase' those rewards. You don't limit the amount of bribes a person can do, so I'm not even 100% sure why you would want to limit the amount of rp purchases a person can make considering people rarely get them anywayYou have Twenty-Three (23) people who are listed as having rp points with the new system, only 8 of which have over the 75 points needed to get just 1 semi-custom if they ordered right this very second. The ENTIRE month of august had a total of ONE (1) person order ONE (1) semi. As of this moment, the shop has 3 people who could order more than one thing right now. To Summerize: Concerns: Word Count for "finished" rps is doubled or tripled at the very least.
Growth requirements are still on the old style, which many had trouble with already
ORPs don't count as rps.
Not really rewarding active members of the shop
RP Point Spending limit too low. Suggestions: Keep the total count having to be x amount, without the minimum needed for post counts
Include ORPs to be claimed for rp points.
Lower the word count needed, especially on solos, back to the amount it was before. It was feasible when it was 500 per person.
Up the spending limit so that one could get at least 2 full customs from that per month.
Maybe do a raffle each month of those who submit completed rps for them to win something: a familiar or a semi or something small. to encourage active rp in the shop.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:08 pm
I agree. This revamp actually makes me feel even more pressured to get enough words in, especially now that the word count total is so much more. I feel like if I try to rp with someone who likes to write thick posts or is perhaps inspired to write a thick response, I’m dragging them down with my (possibly) lighter posts. Which pressures them into writing even more words to compensate for my light post just to be able to declare the entire rp as ‘finished’.
I’ve been staring at the rp redemption thread and I honestly haven’t even though once about redeeming my points, as I’m trying to save for a custom. I’ve been working on my rps for months and have very rarely seen anyone redeem their points. To create a maximum amount useable of 150 for those to me seems a little low, it’s supposed to be a reward, just like Random says. At least give people the option to get two full customs instead of cutting them to one semi or full custom and a few odds and ends.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:38 pm
The shop has been actively working to adjust our processes to match shop ideals. Nightmare Academy is intended to be a roleplay heavy shop. We wanted to put the focus back on the fact that this shop should have a roleplay heavy focus. With that, the roleplay point system was implemented. However, we as staff felt that the minimum requirements for what was classified as a roleplay that was applicable for point scoring did not match with one of the most basic aspects of the shop.
So, what was the best way to move forward? How did we readjust our image to reflect what we desired for the shop while still being fair to our current customer base without alienating anyone? Obviously this is a near impossible feat. Generally, people dislike change. Especially when things have stayed a certain way for a while. But sometimes old ways need to be torn down and replaced with new ones. We have quite a few changes coming, and this is just one of a few that we hope will frame the shop in a way that ties in with the original vision for the shop.
Some things I would like to clarify about this that I think have been misunderstood:
While the overall minimum requirements are a bit higher, we've also made it so individuals can technically claim less points for the amount that they have written. It's also good to keep in mind that the system was designed with hard work in mind (meaning writing larger word amounts).
Some example are as shown below of how the new system can benefit those who write less overall:
Example 1: Person 1 writes 325 words. Person 2 writes 1675 words. The RP is now complete as it has met the 2k requirement. Person 1 ears 3 RP points while Person 2 earns 16 points.
Example 2: Person 1 writes a total of 799 words. Person 2 writes a total of 1,201 words. That RP is now complete! Person 1 can claim 7 RP points, while Person 2 can claim 12!
Example 3: Person 1 writes a total of 648 words. Person 2 writes a total of 1,510 words. Person 3 writes a total of 842 That RP is now complete! Person 1 can claim 6 RP points, Person 2 can claim 15, and Person 3 can claim 8!
This way individual writers do not have to feel forced in to meeting the 500 word limit or the 100 word minimum for each post like they do with growths. This will also encourage people to maybe pair up with folks they wouldn't normally consider in order to find folks who tend to write more! And who doesn't love new RP partners, and maybe even friends?
The amount of points you can earn has not changed. You still get 1 point for every 100 words. There is now the potential to claim under the 500 minimum requirement that existed in the past, depending on who you write with! Upside is that you also have the potential to gain way more at one time by meeting the new finished RP requirements.
Growth requirements are staying the same for the time being. We do not presently have any plans to shift them in any way. The requirements are already incredibly low for what is intended to be a heavy RP shop. If you want to grow your characters then you need to write for them. If you prefer to avoid writing, or you just want another avenue, bribes do exist, but --- as you said --- they are not a guarantee. Bribes are never a guarantee. They should never be seen as such.
Sometimes it may just be the better of the two options to set aside the time to grow the character you really want to that month and get some writing done, even if you do it by yourself between two characters.
ORPs traditionally haven't counted in the past for points. However, during the management transition when I was still learning the old rules and wiggling in to my position as an owner, there were some hiccups and bumps along the way, and signals got crossed for what was allowed and what wasn't. It has been just shy of a year since I took over, and I'm still ironing out the kinks and getting old rules straight and staff on the same page. We appreciate your patience during this time. We know it can be frustrating getting conflicting answers, but we're trying to work out the kinks still. And to address what isn't working!
That said, any points that were redeemed from ORPs will remain in-tact due to that communication error, but the old rule was that event ORPs were excluded from RP point claims due to them being extravagant dice games for immediate prizes (such as familiars, trinkets, or even actual characters in the shop). If enough requests are put in to expand event ORPs to be included in what can be redeemed, we shall definitely look in to that and staff will vote on it. It would follow the same rules for RP point redemption at 1000 words minimum per character.
The limit for what you can spend should be enough to either gain 2 semi-customs or one full custom a month. This means you can get a max of 24 semis a year, or 12 full customs a year through the redemption system per customer. We set this limit to prevent artist burn out, which is a very real thing for many of us. Especially during September-February, which is our busiest time of the year. Full customs tend to be far more detailed and require a lot more time to make as they usually require close communication with the customer. The amount of artists we have currently active versus the demand we believe is fair for the time being. If we get more artists on board who remain active, then we can address raising that limit if the future allows for it. As much as we adore and love to provide art for our customers, there just aren't enough of us at the moment to go around while trying to meet the other demands of the shop that often go on behind the scenes. We need to make sure that we leave ourselves enough time to get everything else done that requires getting done to help keep the shop running smoothly.
I like your last suggestion! That is definitely something our staff can discuss.
Moving forward, please refrain from saying things like "this is crap". This is not constructive in any way, and doesn't add to your suggestions or concerns. If we see comments like that in the future we will not form a response, as we do not wish to encourage any potential hostility. We understand you are very passionate about this, but there is a way to phrase your sentiments in a way that is more beneficial to everyone involved.
Hopefully this helps clarify why staff voted to implement these changes! We appreciate the feedback immensely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:33 pm
I completely agree with Random's post and all the points she makes are valid. Instead of feeling more encouraged to RP in the forum setting I can see how some people (including myself) might be put off by the rise in word count for "finished" rps and the sudden limit on monthly redeemable points for people who do roleplay. If Random is correct about the fact that eight ( 8 ) people have only enough for a semi-custom and in recently only one ( 1 ) person has cashed in for August (not sure about September) I'm a little confused as to why there was a sudden limit on how many points you can spend in a month. If this was to avoid customers from buying mutants then why not just post a limit on the month of October and explain why.
For being an "RP Intensive Shop" as a staff member explained earlier, I'm not sure why those who do RP for more than just growing their pets are being limited. From what I can see, the pets earned from this shop are a majority of customs, give-aways, or breedings in the off season. Even in this month's Haunted Hollow threads only four ( 4 ) of the thirteen ( 13 ) posts are RP oriented. Not to mention the main ORP for this event was, as Random explained, don't count towards your RP points is very disheartening.
If you are going to raise word counts and limit rewards there should be more of an incentive for customers to stay interested.
I can see where some staff may think that dividing the word count up to reach the minimum requirement might be a good idea but personally for myself it hinders me. If I'm writing with somebody who is putting in over 50% of the work for the RP to be finished I feel like a burden. Like Nashawryn stated, I would feel obligated to hold up my end of the rp to match their post. Also, on the opposite end of that it's also awkward. If I'm writing 500 word posts while somebody is writing 100 words as a response this can sometimes be seen as insulting or somebody who isn't engaged in an rp. If anything it feels bad to put so much work into a roleplay only to get maybe 50 words a response. It could elicit feelings of insecurity or anger towards the person who seemingly doesn't want to rp with you.
It feels kind of intimating as well with all this "change" happening. If I had enough points for a custom and I decided to spend those points only to have the rp point customs be re-done, well- I would personally feel very uneasy. Putting in for points, for me personally, is frightening. Even though I've earned these points and work for them I'm afraid that once I've put in for a custom I will be the reason for overwhelming staff.
In addition, I'd suggest if you're struggling for staff to meet customer demands that you say so on your front page or advertise for new colorists. As of right now the hiring thread is static and open 24/7 but it's sort of difficult to see you're looking for artists. Maybe look into having lore masters make a thread for hiring to post in the b/c thread. Perhaps instead of waiting until a potential colorist is ready to be hired somebody on staff can communicate with them that "We wont be hiring you at this time because of this reason" or "We're interested in hiring you but wont be hiring until this date". If it's colorists you want this might help people who are applying to not be stuck in limbo and promote more interest.
One more suggestion I would make is to not so often use "Staff Will Vote" because clearly the staff have been the ones to put these measures in place. I think a far more constructive and beneficial solution would be to take suggestions that customers make and put it to a shop wide vote. If you don't agree with this please explain to me why in this situation Staff are voting on something that solely effects the customers. Staff do not have to do growth requirements for their pets nor do they have to accumulate rp points to get customs. I think it would be more fair if the shop as a whole voted. To Sum It Up: - Try only limiting rp point customs in months with events - Implement more RP games, give-aways, and story driven events if you want to be an RP Intensive Shop - If you are going to raise word counts and limit rewards there should be more of an incentive for customers to stay interested. - Making things uneven in order to "complete rps" might make people uncomfortable or create resentment among customers. - It's intimidating to put in for rp customs or rewards with changes happening because a few people cashed in. - Try advertising or creating a banner for people to put in their signatures if you're struggling with the amount of active colorists you have right now. - Include The Customers. Instead of leaving them out of voting try to include them so we feel like we have a voice too. Many customers put a lot of their time and money into this shop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:28 pm
howdy hey.
i would like to pose this question to those whom are arguing that the rp itself is not an incentive at all, and the little bonus prizes you get here and there are not worth the effort:
what is it that you are seeking from Nightmare Academy?
are you here to collect pets, or are you here to have fun roleplaying with friends? is your goal to accumulate all of the familiars? do you want to get as many special things as you possibly can with minimal effort?
all of those things are okay, by the way. it's totally cool to want to not want to put in a lot of effort and get nice things out of it. but, that's not the sort of shop Nightmare Academy was meant to be.
this might just be me - but a roleplay seems more like it should be to develop the character that you have, not to earn yet another new one. yes, that's a great bonus, but that's not what the main goal is.... and if it is, then please take a moment to examine why that is your goal, and if your goals might be better suited to a shop that is not as roleplay focused?
i'm sure i've stated this before in the past, but many staff members have full time jobs. not many of us have a tonne of free time to spend churning out new kids - so yes, things were made a little more difficult so that not everyone is backlogged with art to make.
marzi, I do have to address that your call to have customers vote on shop policies would be a disaster. staff are in place to set rules and regulations for the shop itself to function. of course staff is the one voting on these things. they run the shop. just as much as the shop would not function without customers, it would also not function with out staff. we set the rules to stifle the flow to make it workable and manageable. sometimes it looks like upping the requirements in order to win a nifty prize. sometimes it looks like making another thing more readily available. i would think that you would know this as someone who served on staff for a bit, even if it was a brief stint.
in this case, the purpose is to slow the flow so that we are not overwhelmed.
to address the amount of games that are rp intensive vs. not-- historically, we've had complaints about it (too much work being the prime complaint) so in this instance for shop events, we've decided to up the amount of games that are not rp intensive. we could go back to doing more rp intensive games, though.
but really. what is it that you would like out of your experience at Nightmare Academy? are you here to collect, or are you here to do other things?
NMA is not a collectibles shop. NMA is a roleplay intensive shop. You must adjust your mindset, or you will be unhappy here, and it is not staff's responsibility to change the nature of the shop to fit your mindset.
just to reiterate: it's okay to just want to collect things, just... be aware of the environment in which you are collecting them in. some places require more work than others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:31 pm
Let me start off by saying that I really love the shop here and the vibe. I absolutely adore the staff. Thank you for making everything possible! I know with such a large userbase it's most likely overwhelming. And honestly, this event? Is freaking amazing. I love how everyone has an equal opportunity for everything.
That being said, since Embi brought this up, I would like for ORP's to be included for points, if only for the fact that it's roleplay and it encourages others to roleplay with me. But like, I understand that it is a privilege, and ultimately it is up to the staff. While ORP points are totally cool, people can get soooo many points from it. And honestly, I'm posting in the current ORP mainly because I love roleplaying with other people and for the duck prizes at the end. That's incentive enough for me to roleplay because those kids (like with all the kids in this event) are stunning and beautiful (tlknglkdgnsldgkngsd; y'all are so amazing, I love you guys). I can tell the amount of work that y'all had to go through.
I do have a slight suggestion, if there is a disconnect between staff and customer? I know y'all are super busy, especially colorists. It takes hours if not days to work on kiddos. Much respect and much kudos for taking time out of your day to give away essentially free art. But it would be really rad if there could be rp encouragement, since I know Embi wants it to be an rp intensive shop, to have loremasters interact more with customers, perhaps? To encourage roleplay? Perhaps make an incentive for loremasters (since right now I think they only work on lore and events) during downtime/whenever they're free to roleplay with customers somehow? That way others are encouraged to get their growths in or post for points. Since I know it's daunting to some to get roleplays started because they don't have anyone to roleplay with, or they don't know where to begin.
tldr;; thank you guys for your amazing work and hearing our voices. It means a lot. ;;
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:32 pm
Nevermind lol. Post is down below!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:43 pm
Porcelain Pinch I do have a slight suggestion, if there is a disconnect between staff and customer? I know y'all are super busy, especially colorists. It takes hours if not days to work on kiddos. Much respect and much kudos for taking time out of your day to give away essentially free art. But it would be really rad if there could be rp encouragement, since I know Embi wants it to be an rp intensive shop, to have loremasters interact more with customers, perhaps? To encourage roleplay? Perhaps make an incentive for loremasters (since right now I think they only work on lore and events) during downtime/whenever they're free to roleplay with customers somehow? That way others are encouraged to get their growths in or post for points. Since I know it's daunting to some to get roleplays started because they don't have anyone to roleplay with, or they don't know where to begin. That's a great suggestion! We'll definitely be discussing this!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:52 pm
From my view, it doesn't make me feel any better or happier seeing these changes. I have already struggled asking my limited gaia friends to start rp with me in this shop. It took me a long time to actually become part of this shop this year. Now it feels like I need to step out of my comfort zone and ask other people that I don't know/never met -who most likely have no trouble in writing an entire post with a word count that could potentially be two/three/four times as much as I possibly could write in a month- to pair up with me.
My muse doesn't easily come either. Even if I have managed to come up with a lot of ideas to brainstorm with in my own time, it still will make it look like I am the sole person slowing the other person down with pending/ongoing rp. The thought of me having written less than the other person will make me anxious wondering if they think they are dealing with a person who is just lazy at typing words when I am trying my best to keep the rp going....
From my experience from being in other shops, rarely anyone would just go on and quote me out of the blue to rp with me. and when they do, it's just to up their own word count and not really there for me/my character.
Edit:
I do understand that this shop is meant to be rp-heavy.
I do appreciate the staff in making beautiful pets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:45 pm
I would like to expand a little on nepsah's explanation and clarify where I think some of the confusion is coming from.
A RP-based shop implies that RP is first and foremost the most important aspect of the shop--that means regardless of rewards. Nightmare Academy is a bit of an anomaly in this regard as it acts more like a collectables shop at times. There are no limitations on the amount of characters a user may own at a time, neither RP nor profiles are not mandatory to receive new characters, and the rate of character acquisition is relatively high in comparison. The number of growths and new characters drawn in the last month alone reached 68 and that's only including those reported from 6 artists.
As nep said: RP should be done for the sake of RP. Offering RP point purchases as a method to obtain new characters is privilege we wanted to offer to active members who go the extra mile. It is not intended to be the primary method of purchase. It's just a nice bonus for doing something that you should enjoy and want to do regardless of any rewards at the end. If you don't enjoy RP or simply lack the time, thankfully we offer plenty of other ways to obtain characters like breedings, customs, bribes, events, and streams.
Even with the addition of platinum and the updated prices, both customs and semi-customs come at dirt cheap prices. Artists spend anywhere from 2 to 6 hours making characters and if you equate that to real world value, you'd be looking at anywhere from about 20-90 USD at just minimum wage. Based on the numbers from September, each artist spends about 40 hours each month making characters in addition to working or going to school full time. Those hours do not include additional art assets like familiars or trinkets.
The changes being made are in no way intended to punish our customer base, and we're sorry that it feels that way. The 1k word minimum is a fairly common standard across other RP-based shops, and we introduced it to give our artists some breathing room, who work solely on a volunteer basis.
For those concerned about unequal amounts of writing with partners towards the 2/3k minimum: the points are divided based on your personal word count. No need to worry about rewards being distributed unfairly.
Marzipanz, I don't know if you've taken a look around the B/C forums recently, but Gaia B/C is stagnating. We can and will advertise, but that does not guarantee that any fish will bite. As far as being included in shop decisions: that is entirely the function of staff, though you are welcome to reapply.
Pinch and Peaches: Making more ORPs and RP-inclusive events has definitely been my personal project. There are some in the works, it's just been a matter of finding the time (isn't it always?). However staff is currently discussing doing some smaller events in the meantime to encourage RP.
Finally: As for ORP's not being eligible for points... We've taken your feedback into account and collectively agreed that all ORPs (staff or user-made) should reward points as long as there is no prize/reward already being offered. That means the ORP for the October event and other events are not eligible. More RP in these is always welcome but will not warrant any points.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:23 am
Okay.... sooo... I'm about to open a huge can of worms that might get really heated... Forewarning and all that, but I'm tired of sitting by and watching this shop turn into what it has...
I do want to state that nep is coming off as rather hostile imo... and so I am sorry if my own words come off that way in retaliation, but I'm trying my best to just be frank and to the point. This in no way means I'm not thankful for all the work you guys have done, I really am! I know how hard it is to run and make a shop and you guys have put in a ton of effort. =333 That said....
To be quite honest, as a customer, I am tired of hearing that this shop is Rp Intensive/Heavy. It feels like it's being used as an excuse for a plethora of bad decisions lately.
A) We all know this is supposed to be a rp required shop. However, back when I joined I was assured that the shop was to remain LIGHT on the rp... and that is the only reason I joined. When rp like this is being changed to heavy and our incentives for rping are being taken away then what's the point?
B) (And this is where the possible problems come in...) Personally, I find the Rp Intensive/Heavy tag to be hypocritical when colorists do not have to do rp or classes. How is this fair? You guys are implementing rp restrictions after rp restrictions that none of you even have to go through. You are not on this side of the changes. In fact, it doesn't even seem like you're asking the customers what they truly want or for suggestions. This is really bad form when staff aren't even made to go through the same hoops we are for growths or customs. This should really change if you're wanting customers to trust you.
C) Green, this is in reference to your own statement, and while I find nothing hostile in the way you're saying it, the truth remains that Rp Points are in fact the main source of getting customs. Currently, the only other way customs are open are through Bribes and Bribes are not fair in the least. It feels like to a lot of us that the only way to get picked in bribes is to be friends with the colorist, so unless random slots are added back in (which they should be), Rp points are the ONLY way to go for a lot of us.
Changes that involve only customers should really go through feedback from the customers before being implemented or you run the risk of alienating them which is what this new rp point system is really doing. I'm not saying that staff shouldn't vote on it, sure, but at least take the time to hear your customers out before putting it into a rule. As of right now it really feels like staff hate the customers and just want to make everything harder on us so we can't enjoy the wonderful world that has been created. I've even heard from some people that they wholeheartedly believe that staff are driving away customers on purpose, and while I'd like to not believe that, it really does feel that we aren't wanted here.
We're not at all saying we don't want to work for things, but many of us have lives outside of Gaia, and to take a system that was barely working before and to make it harder just alienates us even more.
I am sorry if any of this comes off as hostile, I'm not meaning to, but as of currently I am leaving NMA for these reasons and I feel like it's something you guys should know going forward so that maybe there will be better changes in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:59 am
As someone who doesn't mind rp-heavy shops and can easily make it to 250 words a post because I tend to ramble and am terrible at prattling on...
While I am okay with some changes, I do realize that this shop is quite different, so I don't disagree with what people are saying about the changes. (especially if what Koisasi said with staff. I'm sorry, but while you guys are awesome artists and stuff, it's always a bit discouraging to see the staff collecting a hoard/moving forward because they don't have to go through the same steps. It's like when the B/C forum finally changed it's rules concerning staff and events.)
I will say I still entirely disagree with the post count requirement that's still up. Even in other rp-heavy shops that I'm in, you can still get a good rp done in 7 posts or whatever.
If you put a post requirement, and the rp starts to stop at around post... 8 let's say, then it looks a bit silly that the next 2 posts could essentially have:
#9 "blah" he said.
#10. "Blah" she replied.
And count that as finished. I mean it's nice to have the 100+ words counted in each post, but if an rp is slowing down, it's slowing down, and even with a point incentive it may just not be able to go into those last posts.
And also, I feel like posts would need to be planned out a bit more in terms of what someone does? For example, if people have a hard time rping and getting 100 words per post in, then people might have to start planning them out such as:
Post #1: intro person #1
Post #2: intro person #2
Post #3: greeting from #1
Post #4: greeting from #2
Post #5: start main post of rp here
and so on. That's not very fun.
Also, don't get the point allowance. I'm also curious as to what prompted it. Even when I had a good amount of points, I already only spent 2 at most a month (and that was once) because I didn't have enough points. I'm not sure where people are suddenly going to get a ton of points from that this would be a concern, especially since you have changed it so prize ORPs won't count for points. I mean if you don't want to people to spend a ton during the months of say, October (for HH) and December (for plushes) then you an always put that as a note there. In general, don't mind it but find it weird. If people were waiting for mutants from HH or something, could just put a 2 limit on those. Idk.
One suggestion: Perhaps in the list of rp point items, you could add items that would substitute an rp requirement. Say you could have one for one class that would cost... 15 points (that would be about 1 and a half roleplays. Some classes for some college majors don't even exist/haven't been updated in 2 years! Not sure how to get our kids to graduate!) or an item that would substitute a roleplay for 25 points (I know a lot of people have freshlings and those can be hard to get rp for). And/Or have a certain amount of posts in the the ORPs (freshling playroom for example) that would make it count for an rp since they never end. Maybe for every 5 posts of one freshling there or something. I think that way people would want to post more in those places.
Also suggested would be more roleplay opportunities. As someone who sucks at coming up with original roleplays, and who saw that you did have a weekly prompt of sort, why not allow the players to put up their own prompts that they may come up with? Or if it's something weekly, and someone owns a coffee or game shop that has a weekly trivia night, they can also post in that prompt thread instead of trying to recruit people via discord (since that seems to be the main way to get people to plot with you) hoping that one will get enough? Maybe people could take turns with trivia nights. Maybe there could be monthly baking competitions, I don't know. They would just count for the points, but perhaps it could be a bit more fun for people to post then than just one weekly rp prompt by the staff.
Also, 1k is a bit much for a solo rp. It would be nice to get 10 points out of it, but would the rp count if it was between one's own characters? If it's just a solo one though, 500 is enough.
TL: DR
• People have valid complaints since it's hard to rp here
• Please get rid of the 10 posts per rule, if we want we can get 1k in with less posts. Maybe just have a minimum of 3 posts.
• Point spending limit is weird. If there are concerns about posting too many in certain months, just limit those months.
• New RP point items that can substitute classes/roleplays (with a limit, you wouldn't be able to substitute all classes, maybe just 3 and just one required roleplay)
• User rp suggested prompts! Allow more weekly things! Put in a post in the rp forum where others can advertise for something like a weekly trivia night that's just for fun! (and counts for rp points) The staff one hasn't been updated since 2016!
• Put solos back to 500. 1k is a lot and mostly just discourages people who may be having a hard time finding rps with others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:26 am
I just want to say something real quick before going back to sleep (literally)
I knew this was an RP intensive shop when I first joined which was my initial hesitation to join. I believe it says it right there on the front page in the rules post. It should be expected and known. I was not surprised to see the areas where staff are trying to encourage us to RP more. So why is anyone surprised by the amount of RP desired by staff?
Another quick point: I do feel that 1000 for a solo to get points is a bit much but I also get that it should be a high number to keep people from trying to pad their points with selfies. But then maybe there should be a way to encourage RPs with others.
Maybe the rando RP ideas SHOULD be brought back. And maybe a way to suggest random people to RP together.
Finally, I can see how the staff are struggling with their work loads and that this HH was a bit scary to think of the RP points being redeemed... but if we earned them, we earned them? Like I only have 78 points as someone who loves RP but am living a distracting life. Sometimes my RP partners don’t continue with me sometimes I forget... I feel like if people actually got their RP to the goal for points they should be allowed to spend them.
(Maybe make RP point customs count against custom wins you are allowed per month. So if you redeem two point customs you can’t try for normal customs. Unless that has always been true then max of, maybe, 175 points spent?? So we can do full and a semi? Semis allowed to be in templated clothes to make it even easier for colorists.)
I will agree with Koi that I feel bribes are being too highly encouraged on a normal basis considering most colorists say that they only pick according to their aesthetic. (Something I feel I have yet to crack on most colorists.) So maybe say occasionally do some that don’t need the bribery. (Like, I mean, even when a colorist is new enough they can’t accept bribes they can still CC the forms they take so what’s the point of bribing??? (Other than losing a bunch of money if you HAPPENED to guess the colorist’s aesthetic right this round.)
^^^ but I will say I feel that is a separate topic that should have been put in its own thread in this forum.
Okay I think I’ve rambled enough on a semi coherent way... I might post again after better sleep and thinking on this.
(Also also it has been said that staff are doing something about the missing classes. I’m sure that’s on their to do list but there’s a LOT on the to do list especially if each thing is going to cause a situation like this where they have “get the approval” of customers. Like, do you all realize the kind of chaos ASKING would cause when there’s so many of us with possibly WILDLY different opinions that we all think are worthy of being heard?? Some things will get implimented and we are essentially asked to try them out. If, after a trial, we don’t like how it feels THEN we can voice a complaint or concern. In this case I can see how the numbers seem a bit high (especially since it’ll earn us a lot of points in one go) but to get our approval EVERY TIME staff changes something... We are able to give our approval.... LIKE THIS! We can voice our concerns after we see what staff suggests otherwise there’op be a list of ideas that could be a thousand long without EVER being narrowed down. @_@;;
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:14 am
i don't really have anything further to contribute here -- i'm not around enough to feel like i have worthwhile input on things but i do want to apologize for coming off as hostile. it was not my intention, but i see where i could have picked better words to convey my thoughts.
i am genuinely interested in finding out what the disconnect is between knowing that the shop is supposed to be rp intensive, and yet not wanting to actually rp unless extensive rewards are given, though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:30 am
Nep- =333
To be honest, it's something that I don't think has been considered.
First, the huge influx of Freshlings from the tail end of Yushi being owner is a bit more than overwhelming. It has personally made me not want to take on the monumental task. And yes, it was my own fault for getting bribes from them back then, but it doesn't change that too many Freshlings have, and remain, a big issue.
Second is that there are no longer enough active customers in the shop to support the amount of rp. (I am guilty of this.) So upping the amount of required rp feels like a punch in the gut when it's already extremely hard to find anyone who wants to rp at all. Unless you find that one active/rp heavy person you can get along with... rp just isn't going to happen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
