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 Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:45 am
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Heyo, Kunzite here~ Over the past few weeks (and months), we've all have surely seen a change in the CSU. From the number of people doing it, the times it's going up, and for sure all of the drama llama moments. While admittedly, I can't deny that I've been amused by some of it because of the sheer insanity of it, I'm quickly joining a group of people worried that, if these things continue, we may be seeing the discontinuation of the CSU and, in turn, one of few staples of the GCD and Gaia's daily enjoyments. While the blame for that would be split among all that are involved, those of us that run the CSUs would surely bare the brunt of this frustration.
This is why I'm writing this... I guess you can call it a letter... to all that run the CSUs, as well as to those that read it (after all, it is in an open guild where anyone can gain access!). I don't think any of us really want the the CSU to go away, and I'd like to hope no one wants the CSU to be a constant, salt-filled pit of despair day after day. So I do hope that maybe we can start a dialog on what we can do to make it better, as well as potentially fixing the problems that we've been seeing lately leading to the frustration. One of the main points of the CSU and the GCD is to have discussion, so I do hope we can make this work out!
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:46 am
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First up, for the CSU runners!
There's been several discrepancies from many people – myself included – on how the CSUs are done, based on what is and isn't appropriate based on the rules of Gaia itself. It's still my belief that the CSU should have a structure to it because it's not only meant to be a place of discussion, but also an informative list for daily releases that people rely on for things such as Community Picks, asking for re-releases, potential item and ticket tracking, CI/RIG release lists, etc. I do think we should all try and follow a general guideline of rules for creating our CSU threads for the day, even if we change up a few things to fit our own personalities. In the following, this is what I propose:
The first post (or two, in terms of a tier) SHOULD be only the basic information!
This information includes the banner, opening links (Yesterday's CSU, the LV list, the CI list), a short introduction, the legend key to terms, the discussion points, and the release information for the day. People can be creative with this in a number of ways – adding colors or small designs to the headlines, creative titles, add a small image or GIF for the introduction, using their own posting format, etc. - but the CSU's first post(s) should be strictly left for the information of the day and be as unbiased and neutral as possible. This also includes the discussion spoons! As these posts can get very lengthy depending on release days, cluttering it up with things unrelated to the necessary information can lead to further post stretching, potential confusion on what is and isn't related to the daily releases, and potential confusion on what should and shouldn't be discussed. Opinions, jokes, comments, and critiques should be saved to the posts after the main CSU points are up and not included in the opening post(s).
CSU runners SHOULD also make sure that the CSU is open to everyone!
By no means am I stating that people that run the CSUs can't have people on their block list! I totally understand that people block others for any number of reasons. However, it's my recommendation that if you know you have a considerable amount of users on your block list – regardless of the reason why – that you should perhaps not run a CSU. As these are supposed to be public and helpful information guides for everyone to use, blocking dozens of users from the CSU isn't helping with that. If you truly want to run a CSU, perhaps consider running it on a mule account for the first post, while keeping your discussions and posts to your main. That would allow for the CSU to continue to be public while you also avoid seeing the posts from the people you have blocked. If there's other ideas that could be explored, please post and let's talk about it!
CSU runners SHOULD be aware of their timing!
By this, I mean when exactly a CSU should be posted. A big complaint now has been over the early threads of the CSU, and admittedly I'm also getting annoyed with this as well to a degree. I'm also sure there are mods and FAs not 100% sure what to do with the CSUs when they are posted early since they do often contain some sort of content. With tiers starting at Midnight Gaia time and the Deals Bear sometimes updating really early (namely on the weekends), it's sometimes hard to determine when is an appropriate and fair time to start up the CSUs. What I suggest is this:
If the day has a tier, the CSU should go up no earlier than about two hours before the first update of the day. The first update to the CS is at 10am Gaia time. This gives people time to discuss the tier while also providing content to start the ball rolling for the day. If the day does NOT have a tier, the CSU should go up at the time of the first update. If it's up a bit earlier – for example, 10-15 minutes early – because of incoming and known user items (i.e. posted in the Project Hub) being released, then I believe that would be okay. In either case, there needs to be something to actively discuss; the threads shouldn't be made early to call “dibs” without there being anything actually released or soon to be released to discuss. Granted, this line is made grey because of the inclusion of the Deals Bear, but everyone should remember the rules about leaking: just because there is a preview of the releases in question in the Deals Bear and the item may be found in the Avatar Builder ahead of official release, we can not post direct links to it on the public boards, even for the CSU. Caution should be used when creating a thread going strictly off of hints from the Deals Bear due to this.
Timing is important not only to the appropriateness of when the CSU should go up in the GCD, but also to allow for fairness for others to try and do it. While some people may be awake at 2am and can do it, it's effectively taking away the chance from others who may have wanted to do it for their own personal reasons (such as their item(s) coming out or those of a best friend, people having a day off and wanting to do it when they have a chance, wanting to cover certain things because they enjoy it, etc). While I personally love that there are many people that want to do the CSU, there should be a chance for everyone to attempt to do it without feeling like they have to race to do it before anyone else. The way we often do this is by posting in the previous day's thread (usually about 2-4 hours ahead of the CS's first main update, when yesterday's thread is mostly vacant of ongoing discussion) calling an interest in doing it. People really don't have a chance to try and call it or do it if the thread is up super early in the morning when many of the CSU runners are potentially asleep. If there's another method people wish to discuss and potentially try to incorporate to make this a fairer process for everyone, please let's discuss it!
Related to timing, CSU runners should also make sure they are available to be around for all of the update times for the day. Throughout the day, the CS gets updated with a variety of things. 10am updates usually includes user related items (such as user parcels, Golden Ticket based items, Rhodonite releases, etc.), LQRs, and/or LQIs. 11am updates can be bundles for recolor RIGs or monthly CIs or additional LQRs. Noon updates are usually different types of RIGs or RBG releases, sometimes Umami Drops, and the monthly updates to Lucky Catch and Narwheel. Other important release times for things such as recolors are usually 2pm, 4pm, and occasionally 6pm, all Gaia time. People that do choose to run the CSU should be mindful of all of these update times and be available to update the first post in a timely manner. While real life things can happen and no one should be faulted for that – I know I personally leave between 2:30pm and 4:30pm (sometimes up to 5:30pm) every weekday to take care of dinner and personal chores when my husband comes home from work – people that run the CSU should make sure they can update everything as soon as they can, and not leave it vacant for several hours with no updates except from posting users. While this doesn't happen very often, it has happened and since we are discussing the issues related to the CSU, I figured this should be another point brought up for discussion.
Now for something completely different...!
We all have the basic discussion points for the CSU in our opening posts, which is great, but some of us – including myself – wonder if maybe we should try and expand upon that by adding in other discussion potential. One example thrown about was doing a “throwback” discussion. How I see this idea is like this:
After the main CSU points are up (the discussion, items, etc), we put in a small section that features an older item, a small factoid about the item (release, colors, etc.), and discussion spoons related to it (such as “Have you used this item in the past?”, “What do you think of the colors for it, and how they relate to our current schemes?”, or “Would you like to see this item get the “Tailored Star” treatment, and if so, what would you like to see for it?”). This, I feel, would be great for days that don't have much to discuss – such as monthly CI release days or the weekends – to keep things active, while still being on topic because we're still discussing things we'd love to still see from Gaia (which is one of our usual main spoons).
Of course, this is just one idea... people should try and come up with other ideas we can do to also encourage more discussion and more user involvement with the CSU! This is all suggested to potentially experiment with! When it comes to large, full update days this may not be a viable option, and it's totally up to the CSU runners to determine if they wish to do something like this to add to their posts. Primarily, the focus should still be on the daily releases and the discussion related to them!
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:47 am
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This next section is for the CSU visitors!
Granted, the ones who regularly visit the CSUs and the GCD would more than likely be affected by these points, but I do feel like, if we regulars make for a great example, new users would likely follow suit. I'm sure by now, you have all seen my personal message that I add to every CSU:
“Remember, this is for discussion of today's updates! Please take any solicitations for selling or buying to PMs or the Exchange! Also, please remember that this should be a low-sodium thread! We can all agree or disagree on points, but all posts should be worded in a way that helps cater to healthy discussion, provides constructive critique or feedback that can encourage potential improvements, and/or even just a polite compliment or commentary pertaining to the update. While things may not cater to your specific tastes or desires at this current time, it should be remembered that others may be happy with the updates and that we should be, at the very least, pleased for them. Comments should not be derogatory, rude, spiteful, or hateful in nature, no matter how much you may disagree with a certain viewpoint. Let's all take steps to making sure the CSU is a fun and enjoyable place for discussion! Thank you~”
When I say this, it's my goal every time for users to take this to heart when they make their daily posts. Everyone is allowed to be annoyed or mad at a certain update. Everyone is also allowed to be all happy and squeally over a certain update. What should be remembered that, despite our feelings for certain people making comments or critiques, when it comes to the CSU everyone's opinions should be welcomed and encouraged. What some people may hate, others may love, and everyone is allowed to say both positive and negative things about a release. You are totally allowed to be critical of the update in question, but at the very least, an encouraging word should be attempted so as to not rain on someone else's parade, especially on user based days. I'm not saying that users should be exempted from critique or criticism, but they certainly shouldn't be brought down because you are personally not a fan of the colors or items being done. A simple “This isn't for me (and you can feel free to insert reasons here), but congrats to the user” is more than enough to at least show some happiness for the user that got their dream item(s) while also addressing your personal feelings. If people are being overly bashing on something in the update, fires shouldn't be fueled by adding more potential insults or salty comments towards them. Ignore it, report it (if it's bordering on the lines of harassment), or potentially try and open more positive dialog to hopefully get the other person to have a conversation about what they may or may not like about it are all better (and more encouraged) options than the CSU becoming the epitome of the “coming back with pizza to the room on fire” GIF we often see posted.
In the end, our discussion not only helps with keeping the topic relevant to the GCD, but also helpful for the artists that come in and view the threads for the feedback. If the topics of discussion is lost in the posts of razzing, passive aggressiveness, and spiteful commentary, it doesn't help the artists with figuring out what exactly we want, it doesn't help the morale of users visiting and wanting to discuss anything, and it certainly doesn't help to keep the thread relevant to the GCD and risks it being closed and moved. We should all be mindful of what we say and do. Just because we're online and “people can say what they want” doesn't mean that we should use that as an excuse to justify attacking an update or one another. I'm not saying we should censor everything we say or we should all just be positive all the time; just be mindful of what you're saying. I know everyone is capable of being able to share their feelings and thoughts, both positive and negative, without resorting to a lot of cursing and bashing. We don't have to all get along – I know we all have people on here that drives us absolute mad – but we should all make it our best effort to make sure the CSU stays on topic and on discussion every day.
It takes all of us – both the CSU runners and the users of the GCD that regularly visit the CSU – to make it a relevant, informative, enjoyable, and important source of information and discussion. I know myself and others don't want the CSUs to go away, and we certainly don't want it to keep turning into a fire pit of toxic salt. We should be discussing on what we can do to make them better, not dragging them down ourselves. I'm personally very sorry that I've been part of the problem instead of the solution on more than one occasion, and while I'm certain to have a bad day here and there, I'm personally making it my goal to be better because I love the CSU, I love the GCD and its community, and I love Gaia and its staff, and I want all of them to have a place where they can get meaningful conversation as well as a good time. And I hope that, with maybe these points being listed now, we can all take the steps to turn things around so that way the CSU can stay around for a long, long time.
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:17 pm
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Oh thank goodness someone who speaks eloquently and with neutral tone started a topic. I really wanted to have this discussion with the comments and op odd choices (okay personal opinion) that have been happening but worried if I tried to start it I wouldn't get the point across.
On to the points presented.
I agree that the first post or two should be devoid of personal opinion (or extensive personal promotion). While personal touches are perfectly fine I feel like these shouldn't be treated like you would a discussion thread you made on a topic of your own. It feels like it sends the wrong message to those viewing it, that if they don't agree they are the minority. I doubt that is anyone's intent but it can get cringe worthy at times, especially if I don't share the OPs humor. If you want to add your opinion I think it is perfectly fine to do so, even in the post right after the OP (I wait a page but that's just me), but the OP is for information and should be clean. CSU threads are used as references for years to come and the cleaner and more organized they are the more helpful they will be.
I also agree with the block list needing to be small or using a mule if you want to run a CSU. It's not fair for someone to miss a resource as big as a CSU thread for personal matters completely unrelated to it. These threads can and often do have RIG lists that will appear nowhere else on the site and no-one really deserves to be deprived of that. If it would help people to have some sort of mule to make CSU threads with that is shared, so that they don't have to maintain it, I think that'd be a thing we could do. Similar to the mule that made the Summer Sale hub.
I'll leave the actual timing issue aside, while I'm not a fan of the super early updates they aren't my main concern. I DO think we should continue the practice of stating our interest in the thread for the day prior. Some people only get a day a week or a month or just vary rarely to be able to host a CSU. The fact that someone just gets up earlier and makes one shouldn't be the reason they can't. It would also help on days when there isn't anyone from the normal pool able to take an update, then the backup pool or new people have a heads up and can prep to help take it on.
Basically I feel like the CSU is a voice in the GCD, a daily voice. While it has different pitches and tones it should have some sense of consistency. Even if that consistency is just "here is an organized list of information composed for your intake, please enjoy and discuss"
Besides "I'm sorry I probably add to that salt sometimes" I can't really add anything to the CSU visitor statement. I agree it takes all of us and we should probably tone down the criticality a bit because the finger pointing can get pretty extreme. Besides not engaging I'm not sure what else could be done
...I wonder if it's time the CSU just turn into a guides and resources mega thread...
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:38 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:30 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:32 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:38 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:44 pm
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PK Flash gloom baebie great post kunzite. re user & their block lists: how feasible would it be for there to be a csu account? kinda like the sales hub mule. whoever decides to do it for that day can just log in and set it up and between quick edits in the op when new items drop they can continue living their lives on their mains and not seeing the people they don't wish to see post. makes it fair and open & could save a lot of unnecessary drama imo. just a thought... see i was thinking something like this as well, but then the password realistically would only be distributed by a small number of people, wouldn't it? that makes me worry about elitism accusations ( like 'oh, they're part of the CSU clique, UGH' ) it's either that or it would end up getting hacked. neither of those options sound good to me. :T 
i just wish csu threads could be neutral & everyone can discuss and enjoy the items without having to resort to mules and risk being reported for it, it's extremely annoying from personal experience D: |
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:50 pm
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Fibonacci To Infinity Forum Assistant
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:20 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:56 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:15 pm
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la justice what i 'm reading so far sounds good, with the exception of the "create a communal csu account" thing that was brought up, and i might be over thinking this but there might be a problem with the "use a mule to create a csu" part.. wouldn 't that create an issue with the part of the tos that mentions you 're not allowed to contact someone you have on ignore ? even if they didn 't know it was the person who was on their ignore list/who was ignoring them ? because if i 'm not wrong about that, someone could potentially ignore a bunch of users, make a csu on a mule, and then report said users when they post in the thread. |
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:56 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:47 pm
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I agree with all this. CSU threads should be neutral and have no bias or blocking. Any thread that wants to be considered "Official" or used for updates, community discussion, etc should remain open to everyone unless the mods/staff decide otherwise on a case by case basis.
Personal issues should be left to PM or off the site altogether. I understand blocking is there to help us leave the drama out of our lives and what not but with what happened today (I'm obviously part of this and I'm sorry for bringing it up but) it only creates more. Blocking people and creating threads you know will upset them only creates mass drama and removal/deletion of threads, warnings for everyone, etc and it's a giant mess. Why go out of your way to make someone's day, that's supposed to be happy, so terrible? Why not just turn the other cheek for the day and move on with your life?
And people claim they want it to be official in the first post, etc but don't clarify where the official part should start and end. Why should the first post be "official" but then other things, that can cause the thread to derail or become a crap fest, be allowed?
This is just how I feel about it because not only me, but many others have been blocked on days of releases and what not and it's quite upsetting. |
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