Church of Jesus Christ Will Not Go Through the Tribulation

[Garland-Green]

Revelation 1:3

Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.  

[Garland-Green]

Revelation 22:10

Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.


Since it is not sealed up it is something we can comprehend,
so I encourage everyone to read this book of the Bible. smile  

[TS Sailor Cronus]

TS Sailor Cronus

--Redacted, based on a misunderstanding. Sorry for confusion.--

However, I think I am ready to drop out of it *here* in this guild, but I may continue it/ restart it on my website, http://brothersandsistersinjesus.freeforums.org/.

If anyone here is interested, the above site will be my new refuge from Gaia and my new home for myself and fellow Christian guild members, if you will join me. ^_^ It is *brand new* and has barely anything in it, as I am still trying to adjust to it, but I will be working to fill it out with at least something today.  

[Spirit Reborn]

real eyes realize

Thank you for bringing up very good points! My faith has since been made strong since you've replied. I had made plans to reply to you but somehow I kept putting it off sweatdrop Hope you can forgive me.

I have Bible study family friends who believe that we will be raptured before experiencing the great tribulation. I will be praying for the opportunity to share with them some of these points you've mentioned. Thank you once again..you don't know how much this means to me. I admit I've been backsliding a bit in my faith but your message and all that's happened since has strengthened it greatly and I have no doubts in regards to the beast, the mark, and its image. I refuse to worship and take either. Do you have any recommended resources such as books, e-books, PDF's, websites, YouTube links, etc that covers the subject of us not being raptured and us being called to endure the Great Tribulation in the Revelations? 3nodding  

[real eyes realize]

Spirit Reborn

real eyes realize

Thank you for bringing up very good points! My faith has since been made strong since you've replied. I had made plans to reply to you but somehow I kept putting it off sweatdrop Hope you can forgive me.

I have Bible study family friends who believe that we will be raptured before experiencing the great tribulation. I will be praying for the opportunity to share with them some of these points you've mentioned. Thank you once again..you don't know how much this means to me. I admit I've been backsliding a bit in my faith but your message and all that's happened since has strengthened it greatly and I have no doubts in regards to the beast, the mark, and its image. I refuse to worship and take either. Do you have any recommended resources such as books, e-books, PDF's, websites, YouTube links, etc that covers the subject of us not being raptured and us being called to endure the Great Tribulation in the Revelations? 3nodding

I will always recommend going through scripture with them / reading outloud together. But I think the following film/documentary is sound "enough" to share. Make sure to pass along certain details/points which may be unbiblical (through email or what have you) or print the points out / write them down and watch with them, pausing along the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmZHDb_sP8

I took a while to respond because I wanted to watch the video again just to reassess just how biblically-sound it was (huge chunks of it didn't contradict scripture, but certain details I would say weren't sound). So, these are a few of my notes that I typed up as I watched (I would recommend sharing the points highlighted in gold [rapture related] or purple [general doctrine] when you pass this along / if you pass this along):

• The first few minutes may look a bit irrelevant/conspiracy-theorist, but they touch upon the "new world order" (relevant to how we see the same "beasts" in the Book of Daniel joining together as "one" in the Book of Revelation; they get back to the "one unified nation" around 47 minutes into the video though).
  
  
• I disagree with Pastor Anderson's stance on when the rapture happened: he places it in Revelation 7 before wrath hits (a comment he makes around the 38:57 mark). But this is why I disagree: we know, and Anderson does acknowledge this, that the dead in Christ will rise from the dead first before the surviving believers/living believers get transformed and get caught up to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), so that means we have to wait until Revelation 20 to see a rapture. That's when the first resurrection takes place (out of the two mass resurrections taking place after the great tribulation; both are described in Revelation 20, not before then). Jesus makes his appearance riding in the clouds only in Revelation 19:11, not before then. Anyone present with Christ in Revelation 7 is dead/has been martyred. And Revelation 7 even mentions that the great multitude went through the wrath/great tribulation not just simply tribulation (like I mentioned previously, Jesus opened the seal for wrath at the sixth seal described in Revelation 6:12-17, and in Revelation 7 the angels are holding up wrath until the believers get sealed. The believers are being sealed because they're staying for wrath, but protected. Pre-wrath rapture makes no sense in light of this).
  
  
  
• They get a bit redundant saying "tribulation does not equal wrath" before ever getting to the scriptural proof. But they addressed verses that I didn't touch on in this thread so that's worth noting and holding out for.
  
  
• I think their definition of "Israel" is off (I briefly touched upon it in my previous replies in this thread, but I explained it more at length in the other guild): ]http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php/viewtopic.php?page=1&t=24318071#364617499
  
  
• Around 56:30, I don't know if that was a real dollar bill (or not?) that he took out of his wallet, but I don't condone that he ripped it up (if it was real). That's actually illegal: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333
  
  We're not suppose to dishonor Caesar (it's his face on the coin, Mark 12:16-17). We're not suppose deface US currency, that's disrespectful (not to mention illegal).
  
  He tends to get a little...enthused and angry around 1:22:00-ish too.
  
  
• Around 1:28:00 -ish, they try to use the "Noah and Lot" comparison as evidence for being raptured before the wrath/great tribulation, but Noah and Lot stayed on earth, simply sealed up or put in a place of safety elsewhere on the planet.
  
  Revelation 7 says God's servants will be sealed before unleashing wrath (v.1-3): Revelation 7 does not say that we're gathered off the planet; the "gathering" from the four winds of the earth (which the pastor made reference to) is a direct quote from Matthew 24:31, and a verse before that happens (Matt 24:30) Jesus appears coming in the clouds—which means Jesus appears riding in the clouds before that rapture happens. The parallel in Revelation, again, would be Revelation 19:11, when Jesus appears in the clouds riding on a white horse and then in Revelation 20:4-6 the martyred saints get resurrected. Jesus does not appear coming in the clouds in Revelation 7.
  
  
• @1:48:48 - "once you believe on him you're saved forever; no matter what you can never lose your salvation".
  
  This "once saved, always saved" doctrine is error: you could show them all the scriptures that suggest we need to persist in faith to be saved. We can lose salvation if we stop believing / fall away from the faith, even after having tasted of the heavenly gift, sharing the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 6:4-6). We can disown Jesus (2 Timothy 2:12). I shared some scriptures concerning this in the Eternal Security of the Believer? thread. and even today in the God's Role in the Atonement for Our Sin thread, explaining Hebrews 6:4-6.
  
  
• @1:50:37-ish, he read the verse correctly, but totally glossed over how Jesus said doing the will of the Father vs working iniquity are the distinguishing characteristics—the verse is not about belief. Yeah, relying on your own works to get yourself into Heaven is wrong as is merely believing that Jesus is Lord. Part of the Father's will is that you believe in the Son (John 6:40), but Jesus also told us to cut out from our lives what will get us thrown into Gehenna  (Matthew 5:30) which falls in line with repentance, turning away from sin, realizing that it's wrong and not wanting to do it again. I think everyone should agree that two things are required of us: repentance of our sins and belief in the son, but apparently two minutes or so later, he's saying repentance of sins isn't necessary :l eh.
  
  
  Quote:

  Acts 3:26 (NIV)
  
  When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."
  
  
  
  Quote:

  Acts 19:4 (NIV)
  
  Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
  
  
  
  Quote:

  Mark 1:4 (NIV)
  
  And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
  
  
  
  
  It's not a matter of "either or". if you do one, you will do the other (if you're doing either of them right, lol, in genuine sincerity). I especially wanted to point this out because the verse he was reading wasn't explicitly about believing in Jesus, but he tried to turn it into that (on an implicit level I can admit it does involve belief in Jesus since, like I said before, if you genuinely believe what Jesus said, you wouldn't be working iniquity to begin with; repentance has to happen). So these "believers" Jesus is speaking against in Matthew 7, whom he accuses of never knowing, never actually believed the biblical Jesus. They must've been following a Jesus of their own construction, or who has been popularized by doctrine, but not believing in Him as written in the gospels.

I wouldn't show this video to anyone though if you won't pause and bring up these points to them. On the brightside, there wasn't that much I disagreed with (in comparison to what I did find plausible and that didn't contradict scripture).

After watching this video, I'm still leaning towards the rapture happening post-great tribulation/ post-wrath. The film supports a pre-wrath rapture view (they're putting the rapture at CH. 7 instead of CH. 20).