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So I think everyone in this guild can agree, while the port of DnD skills was a great idea, it has been kind of lackluster, with some obviously useful skills sticking out, and some that never get used. As well as some imbalances with out current system. I am proposing the following changes.

Major:
wahmbulance Removal, or major update of the Charisma attribute. wahmbulance

Reasoning: As it stands, Charisma is the weakest attribute in the game. There is little to no reason to ever distribute points into it, or to train it. It doesn't effect anything except a few skills; those being

Diplomacy
Handle Animal
Innuendo
Intimidate
Perform
Seduction

Of those skills, I have seen 3 used in this guild in the 2+ years I have been here. Diplomacy, Intimidate, and innuendo.

I honestly don't see why we have Handle Animal, it seems suuuuuuper niche. As the majority of people that have animals simply acquired them by asking whoever was in charge of the village.

To follow that up, the only time I have seen Perform used was by the music clan and dance clan I created. But even then, it didn't add anything to them, because performing never came up. Ever.

That leaves Charisma impacting only 4 meaningful skills.

Meanwhile every skill that Charisma is useful for can be combated by a skill Sense Motive which scales off of Wisdom. Meaning for every 2 points you train or distribute into Charisma, the opponent needs to train or distribute 2 points into Wisdom.

Lets take a look at what Wisdom does.

+Dodge
+Will
+MHp
Awareness
Read Lips
Sense Motive
Survival

Notice Wisdom not only affects the PC in combat, it also provides bonuses to the one skill that stops all of the Charisma based skills, but also provides bonuses to another skills that is one of the most used in the guild, Awareness

Proposal: Remove the Charisma attribute from the guild. I feel we can replace the modifier for the skills Charisma effects with Intelligence.

So it sounds like everyone is more on board for just fixing the attribute as opposed to removing it, I'm A-OK with this, I just wanted to finally open discussion on it.

Current proposal, addition of Bluff, Gather Info, and Disguise to skill list.

wahmbulance Intelligence attribute adjustment. wahmbulance

It seems clear to me that Intelligence is the attribute you want if you want to develop Skills. Lets look at what it effects currently.

+Bonus to seeing through Clones
Alchemy
Chakra Control
Craft
Treat Injury
Being Able to Identify Genjutsu

So, it doesn't effect combat, and much like Charisma The skills seem pretty niche. Though I would say, much much less so.

I see some very easy ways to balance out the Int so that it has a more meaningful impact to the guild.

Proposal: When leveling up instead of getting +10 skill points flat you get 10 + Int mod skill points . This makes training it up more meaningful, as it affects combat indirectly increasing the amount of points you can put into passive skills and such.

I feel like these changes would balance out the guild a bit

Minor changes

Changing all Charisma based skills to Intelligence based skills.

See above for reasoning

Changing Chakra Control to be modified by Chakra

I feel like this is pretty self explanatory.



I would like to hear what you guys think.

I'm +1'ing this. While useful in (very) few aspects. It seems like a waste of time learning it since CHA is rarely used in missions and next-to-no one is taking the time to train CHA or any of the skills. Why? Because most people don't give two flying f*cks and because training more useful, versatile skills supersedes.

I'm for converting CHA to INT. In my mind, you don't always have to be charismatic to impress someone, sometimes you just have to know how to wow them and use that to your advantage.

I have to say I'm actually against this. I understand the reasoning and have noticed that this skill is drastically neglected by people; but there is a reason why it exists in pretty much all d20.

Having made a few missions myself, pretty much any encounter involves some form of discussion and makes things a lot more interesting. I know many people don't give a crap about it because they actually RP their character's charisma and, because of often spotty activity by, well everyone, don't have the chance to partake in missions that would require that they use it. If you'd like to see an interesting character that's charisma oriented, look at Dimi Deiod's Masanori. Just having him on missions opens to so much more diversified encounters and possibilities because of the variety it brings to a squad's skill set.

As for substituting it with intelligence, I have to say that I have known very intelligent people that have no charisma or social skills whatsoever. To me, these are two things that do not go hand in hand.

I believe that the solution would be to find ways to incoporate charisma in the system more significantly. I actually found it some use with the "feint" skill which will most likely come in the next update.

To me, this just seems far too much of a drastic change, and, as a mission creator, find it would take away an important and fun aspect of the game. I also believe it makes us stray a bit too far from classic d20 which is a significant area of advertising to get new members...

Nah, I think it should be like this...

Charisma vs Wisdom stuff.

Diplomacy vs Sense Motive

Seduction vs Awareness (for now)

Intimidate vs something to do with enduring through something as intense as killing intent (Which should be a passive technique that boosts intimidation checks and causes weaknesses in the opponent when used)

Innuendo vs Read Lips I suppose, we should add that this skill includes body moments, and understanding code, which is telling a truth with a lie. So you would see some kind of twitching... seeing through a failed pokerface I suppose.

Perform vs Read Lips for now...

Handle Animal... well. You need it for pets... So it could be in int, wis or cha really...

I agree there shouldn't be one skill that blanket covers a bunch of others.

I think there is some tweeking that can be done here and there,

Hell a few of CHA based skills from DnD we are leaving out that could make buying into CHA more important

Bluff
Disguise
Gather Information

That would make someone who went high DEX/CHA a really good scout, being able to bluff their way out of anything should they get caught.

I agree with those points whole heartedly. ((I forgot intimidate was countered by itself, and I though in 3.5 diplomacy was countered with two roles, 1 to sense motive and 1 to counter argue? That may have been a house rule from my brother since he liked his skill checks being complicated as ******** really just wanted to open up this discussion, because whenever it is mentioned its usually "Well crew talked about it." That's not a sufficient answer answer for me.

Honestly, if we added Bluff, Gather information, and Disguise I think that would be the best way to help balance out CHA.

What really needs to happen is this guild needs to play more like DnD to have CHA work. So many people just RP that something happened when really it should be a skill check based action. I'm guilty of this I can admit it, recently in the mission I did a roll action which would have been a tumble/athletics check, but I passed it off as a reflex DC, and I know other people are guilty of it too.

It sucks because sometimes the rolls are against you and even though you want to do one thing, it doesn't mean it will turn out the way you expect.

Bluff can be under Wisdom and is opposite Sense Motive
Disguise can be under Charisma and is opposite Awareness

That gives Sense Motive a use, Bluff can be used in taijutsu to hide the true target of an attack like how Omoi did to Deidara and Sasori during the war. He jumped to attack Deidara but the real target was Sasori's puppet strings.

I'm no Goldeen or enemy Rocket's zubat sweatdrop

And Bluff for feinting is a great idea, but I still think it should be a Cha skill. Disguise vs Awareness sounds good, though.