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 Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:56 am
 There are many well meaning sincere believers who still observe the food laws of the Old Testament. Certainly they are not in sin and there may be real health benefits to such a practice. But are believers required to do likewise and are those food laws still expressions of holiness before God?
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:37 pm
Sure
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." Matthew 19:17
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." -John 14:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. - Matthew 7:21
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. - Matthew 5:17
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:19 am
I think it's a natural progression of being sanctified by the Holy Spirit: removing idols in our life, making sure he is God in every aspect of our lifestyle (do you love food more than YHWH? do you let Him or your body's cravings guide your decisions?). It's not required for justification (declared not guilty; "saved" from hell), but I think it is the evidence that you're being sanctified more and more. Knowing that his commandments are given to benefit us, I say why wouldn't a believer want to?
I do think it is a way to express holiness; it expresses "I'm dedicated to only you YHWH" because you're willing to sacrifice the ways of this world to be more in alignment with him, you're allowing him to make decisions instead of the whims/desires of the flesh. I think humans, like the rest of creation, have a specific diet too. Our creator instructs us with our safety and function in mind. With the Holy Spirit, there really is no impediment to stop us (Eze 36:27). If we're willing, he enables us.
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:03 am
Modern translations of the bible say, "Jesus made all foods clean". (Mark 7:19) But the older versions do not say that. It was falsely edited in, which taints the original meaning. I was surprised when I found out.
New International Version (197 cool : 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.”(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
American Standard Version (1901): 19 because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean.
New King James Version (1975): 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”
English Standard Version (2001): 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
Darby Translation (1867): 19 because it does not enter into his heart but into his belly, and goes out into the draught, purging all meats?
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition: 19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but goeth into the belly, and goeth out into the privy, purging all meats?
(The original Douay-Rheims Translation is actually a lot older, 1582)
King James Version (1611): 19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Wycliffe's Bible (1382): 19 for it hath not entered into his heart, but into the womb, and beneath it goeth out, purging all meats.
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:06 pm
Ya'll are missing the main passage in which we get the part where everything is clean to eat which is taught in seminaries as why we do such a thing.
"On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!" But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky." Acts 10:9-16
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:18 pm
emorhconom esor Ya'll are missing the main passage in which we get the part where everything is clean to eat which is taught in seminaries as why we do such a thing. "On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!" But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky." Acts 10:9-16 Read the whole chapter. Specifically: Quote: Acts 10:28 (NIV) 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. Peter realizes what the vision was explaining: it was a revelation to go preach to/accept the Gentiles into the flock. Jesus initially only came to save Israel: Quote: Matthew 10:5 (NIV) 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. It was about people, not food. It was against their instructions to go to the Gentiles (obviously Acts 10:28 is not a reference to Torah, because there are foreigners [gentiles] observing passover and other holy days, associating with and living amongst Israel, sharing the same laws - Ex 12:19, 48-49; Lev 16:29; 17:8-10; Num 15:16; 35:15; Deu 1:16; 10:18 ) edit: also note, this is the book of Acts, Jesus has already ascended, this is years after and Peter still hasn't eaten anything unclean. This is how the early church was living: adhering to the dietary laws. Even more, Jesus spent 40 days with them after he resurrected (but before ascending) according to Acts 1:3-4. Like the text says, in that time Jesus ate with them. If Peter is saying that he hasn't eaten anything unclean all the way in Acts 10, that means Jesus also didn't eat anything unclean in Acts 1. Wouldn't you think he'd tell them, "hey it's ok to eat unclean food now". question
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:56 am
real eyes realize emorhconom esor Ya'll are missing the main passage in which we get the part where everything is clean to eat which is taught in seminaries as why we do such a thing. "On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!" But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky." Acts 10:9-16 Read the whole chapter. Specifically: Quote: Acts 10:28 (NIV) 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. Peter realizes what the vision was explaining: it was a revelation to go preach to/accept the Gentiles into the flock. Jesus initially only came to save Israel: Quote: Matthew 10:5 (NIV) 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. It was about people, not food. It was against their instructions to go to the Gentiles (obviously Acts 10:28 is not a reference to Torah, because there are foreigners [gentiles] observing passover and other holy days, associating with and living amongst Israel, sharing the same laws - Ex 12:19, 48-49; Lev 16:29; 17:8-10; Num 15:16; 35:15; Deu 1:16; 10:18 ) edit: also note, this is the book of Acts, Jesus has already ascended, this is years after and Peter still hasn't eaten anything unclean. This is how the early church was living: adhering to the dietary laws. Even more, Jesus spent 40 days with them after he resurrected (but before ascending) according to Acts 1:3-4. Like the text says, in that time Jesus ate with them. If Peter is saying that he hasn't eaten anything unclean all the way in Acts 10, that means Jesus also didn't eat anything unclean in Acts 1. Wouldn't you think he'd tell them, "hey it's ok to eat unclean food now". question This is not about the Gentiles because Peter was not the apostle to the Gentiles, that was Paul's job. Peter went to the Jews for the Jews were to hear the word first, so why would Paul get a vision about going to the Gentiles.
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:03 pm
emorhconom esor This is not about the Gentiles because Peter was not the apostle to the Gentiles, that was Paul's job. Peter went to the Jews for the Jews were to hear the word first, so why would Paul get a vision about going to the Gentiles. Yes, it was about Gentiles; once again, read it in full. I'm not quoting from thin air. [ Acts 10]: Peter received the vision and then went to a Gentile's house (Cornelius) so they could learn once and for all that yes, Gentile's are to be accepted despite the fact that Jesus, before his death-burial-resurrection, had ordered them not to go to the Gentiles. That's the whole purpose of the vision: Gentiles are being saved too, accept them. Quote: Acts 10:1-48 New International Version (NIV) 1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!” 4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked. The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.” 7 When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. 8 He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa. 9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” 14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. 17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there. 19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.” 21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?” 22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests. The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. 24 The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26 But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.” 27 While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?” 30 Cornelius answered: “Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32 Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’ 33 So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.” 34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. 39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b ] and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. Footnotes: a. Acts 10:19 One early manuscript two; other manuscripts do not have the number. b. Acts 10:46 Or other languagesPeter went to Cornelius' house. Peter and the ones he'd been preaching to didn't think Gentiles could receive the Holy Spirit, yet Cornelius did receive it. They had to accept that and welcome them as part of their community. I'm not negating that Peter was sent to the Jews. All the more reason for him to receive the vision. Paul was deemed the apostle to the Gentiles in the previous chapter (Acts 9). The vision wasn't for him, but for Peter so he could tell the Jews to accept the Gentiles into the body.
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:22 am
Modern Christians aren't expected to keep kosher or follow Levitical laws. At least not according to most denominations. I've actually never had the justification for that explained to me well. Something about Christ's sacrifice nullifying the "old laws," and Jews are still expected to adhere to such laws because they believe they're still waiting on their true messiah.
Only dietary law I was everr taught to follow is no meat on Fridays (fish is all right, though), and I was always under the impression that that was mainly a Catholic thing.
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:07 pm
We should expect most of Christendom to get it wrong because narrow is the way and few be there that find it—usually because they're not focusing on the Messiah, but on themselves or traditions. If Yeshua is eating clean after his resurrection (AKA after he atoned for us), then there is no justification for saying "following the dietary laws is legalism" or "they're done away with". Had he eaten unclean meats in Acts 1 after his resurrection, Peter would not have been shocked by the vision nine chapters later. Saying "eat unclean" was unheard of. The abstaining from all meat minus fish has no biblical basis either. Actually, prophecy warns against such prohibitions: Quote: 1 Timothy 4:1-3 (NIV) 4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. The Catholic Church forbids priests from marrying (which makes no sense, because the biblical priests, the Levites, had sons and daughters) and they force people to abstain from all meats minus fish on "Good Friday"—which would include cow, chicken, turkey, all considered clean by YHWH 's standards—and for what reason...? YHWH's dietary guidelines clearly allow for beef and poultry; they were fine to eat and not a single one of his feast days ever elevated one group of clean foods as superior over the rest of the clean foods (note: unclean meat is not even considered food...for human consumption anyway, lol; and just in case people misinterpret the marriage thing: when scripture talks about "marriage" it's implied that it's a man and a woman).
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:51 am
I never said the Catholic fish-on-Friday thing made sense, just that it's the only Christian diatary rule I'vee ever personally experienced, as a lapsed Catholic myself. A great deal of Catholic theology is more historical than scriptural in origin. The Catholic Church actually teaches against sola scriptura, which is pretty much the basis of Protastanism (which teaches that by faith and scripture alone you are saved).
I'm vegan, so I guess by default I do follow OT diatary laws, and then some.
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:17 am
I eat shrimp and other bottom feeders like crab but not often and I can live without them however I will not eat pork. after reading up on how Jesus casted demons into hogs I just cant stomach pork. I see hogs as Satans animal. It also doesn't help that my ex's little sister was chased by a hog that tasted blood. Will never own a hog or eat one. But if I catch one on my land it will be shot and burned. Destructive, evil creatures. I live where there are tons of feral hogs, and they will kill you if they get the chance.
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:11 am
Matthew 15:11
What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'"
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:27 am
@ SinfulGuillotine: just wanted to explain, to everyone, why it didn't make sense. @ Subliminal Aftermath: I didn't know they were so dangerous. eek Garland-Green Matthew 15:11 What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'" That is an important reminder: I hope no one is thinking that physical food will purify you spiritually or give you an unblemished character. Do not make the mistake, however, of thinking that Jesus is talking about food here. He's referring to the Pharisees' hand-washing tradition (a ritual they made up and forced the people to abide by as if it were YHWH's law); the Pharisees complained that Yeshua's followers were eating with dirty hands and Matt 15:11 was Yeshua's reply. He wasn't referring to the type of food they were eating. Considering that these are Pharisees he's talking to, there's no unclean food on the table. If Yeshua ate clean, as the apostles did post-atonement sacrifice, it makes sense for his followers to want to eat what he considered food for human consumption. The only animal product I eat is organic eggs though, lol, but in the case that I had to eat meat I would avoid what he said wasn't food.
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:03 am
My short answer is: No, it's not necessary.
My long answer includes Scripture as my basis.
I'm assuming other people have already made this argument, though.
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