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Updates to water clone jutsu [Approved]

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PupSage

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:23 pm


Suiton: Mizu Bunshin no Jutsu (Water Release: Water Doppelganger Technique)
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
The technique creates clones out of water. Like other solid clone techniques, the clones can be used to perform tasks the user is unable or unwilling to do for themselves. The range of the clone is limited however, as it can not travel very far from the original body without losing control. Additionally, water clones only have a fraction of the original person's power. Like other clone techniques, if the water clones are injured enough they will revert back to normal water.
Rank: C
Dice Rolls: 3
Cp cost: 15 per clone
Damage: Physical damage caused by clones is reduced to 3/4 of the original amount.
Reflex DC: n/a
Requirements: Kirigakure or Amegakure or Takigakure, Water Affinity, Chakra control 20, Ninjutsu 18
Training: 3 stages
Stage 1: Ninjutsu DC: 28, Making a solid clone from water.
Stage 2: Chakra Control DC: 30, Animating the water clone.
Stage 3: Ninjutsu + Chakra Control DC: 51, Fighting maneuvers with the clone while making him mimic your combat style.
Special:
*Mizu Bunshin can only perform water jutsus and normal attacks.
*CP used for clones performing jutsu is 1.1x as much and is taken from the creators cp pool
*Clones have to stay within same thread as user and within eye or ear shot of them as well
*HP: 20 + 2 per 10 in Chakra Control + 2 per 10 in Ninjutsu Skill + 5 per 10 CP over base CP
To See Through Clones: d20 + 1/2 the user's int mod + half the user's chk mod vs. d20 + opponent's int. mod. Opponent will target the real ninja among the clones.
*Can create 1 per 5 ranks in Chakra Control. The user numbers each of their clones individually. The attacker does a random number check to see what they hit.
*Clones cannot mimic special weapon properties, such as the Samehadamaku's Chakra absorption, or producing wire like Nubari.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:29 pm


+1 confused For example I just summoned 14 water clones. That's nuts. It was funny, xd but nuts.

The Ghost of Xmas Awesome


Hoshigaki Hiru
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:15 am


I'd actually remove the bonus to dodge bonus and reflex entirely. It doesn't really have any justification and if the clone moved differently, people would immediately know it's not the real user.

Also, I'd remove their ability to use jutsus entirely, especially given the low chakra cost. Pretty sure we've never seen that and would prevent jutsu barrages to be used by cp focused characters.

I'd use this discussion to have all elemental clone techniques and the shadow clone technique be added to the general list as well. We've seen multiple water users use the water clone techniques, basically from all villages, so it seems as though these jutsus are not so secret after all but linked more to the nature of chakra a shinobi can use. And for the shadow clone technique, it seems any high level shinobi can do it, both in the anime and the manga, so it should most likely be added to the general list as well.

The rest is very good to me.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:02 am


For Kage Bunshin only 2 people, out of 10 canonically shown (as in, in the manga), have not been from Konoha. That's pretty secret in my mind.

Mizu is a bit harder as only 3 people have used it in the manga, but of that only 1 of them wasn't from mist.

Plus if you take away what makes the villages unique there is really no point to having the different villages. Of course this my view if someone actually moves for them to be made public as this thread should only be voting for the Mizu Bunshin changes.

For changes being proposed to the Mizu Bunshin, is that random number done if they can't pick out the user?

Over Yandere
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ProtoXtreme
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:16 pm


Personally, I don't mind universal Bunshin techniques, but I agree with Tai about the no-point of having different villages otherwise. Partly my disagreement that Goken is universal too - but that can't be helped cause, let's face it, nobody wants to sit and write up a set of Taijutsu techniques. One issue is making a set of techniques sound realistic enough unless they are a blackbelt or master of the arts in real life...

But this is Bunshin, and Bunshin's a different story. Differentiations can be made among the clones techniques - to make them special - so why not keep them as different from each other and region-special? I'm sure if Carlos was here, he would disagree about Iwa's specialty being universal... Imagine somebody in Kiri using stone Bunshin is just...wrong.

There's another problematic clash with the story of the guild when Kenk was around... When he wrote up a large portion of Konoha's recent-history for me, there was also mention of an apocalyptic event of sorts that devastated all five villages before current history. In fact, it's still there in the guild base storyline - of shinobis/shinobi lines rediscovering themselves. If we are at a stage of still rediscovering lost arts, starting local first probably makes most sense.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:27 am


Hoshigaki Hiru

Also, I'd remove their ability to use jutsus entirely, especially given the low chakra cost. Pretty sure we've never seen that and would prevent jutsu barrages to be used by cp focused characters.


Never seen a water clone use jutsu?

Kisame made three water clone, which then produced 3 water prisons to hold Rock Lee, Neji, and Ten-ten. Its been done in cannon.

I do agree the Kage Bunshin should be made public, however, leaf doesn't have a local bunshin and technically, the scroll was kept there.

So unless I get others saying that they want the reflex and cost changed , I will leave it as is.

Nura Tai

As always, if they can pick out the original, then they get to hit the original, otherwise it is left to the RNG or dice.

@ Everyone
I am just trying to establish a cap for the jutsu, and make the rules a little more clear. I've seen to many people abusing clones lately and would like this one fixed. So while I agree this conversation is one that needs to be done, can we please stay on topic.

PupSage

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kouri-chan_xx
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:39 am


RE clones

What do you mean by normal attacks Sage? (vs taijutsu)
From a balance perspective I can understand the x1.1 Cp cost for performing jutsus.

One part of me wants to agree with Hiru that there should be a reduction of the Dodge and Reflex to normal. When making the village clone jutsus though we tried to give every village a bonus. Konoha's is obviously the fact that the clones are solid (it's actually kind of a shitty advantage since the water, stone etc are as well but...) Iwa's was the increased damage because the clones were made from a harder substance. The Lightning clone was dangerous to touch. And so on. (OK the sand clones had no advantage and Suna can fight me for that haha) I dunno if the relatively low Cp cost is enough of a bonus though... just my few cents.

When you say "can create" do you mean create in 1 go or maintain? Thanks for bringing up the issue of the cap. I think we meant to have it but forgot gonk

Agree with the special weapon properties.

As for village specificity that is for another thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:26 am


kouri-chan_xx
RE clones

What do you mean by normal attacks Sage? (vs taijutsu)
From a balance perspective I can understand the x1.1 Cp cost for performing jutsus.

One part of me wants to agree with Hiru that there should be a reduction of the Dodge and Reflex to normal. When making the village clone jutsus though we tried to give every village a bonus. Konoha's is obviously the fact that the clones are solid (it's actually kind of a shitty advantage since the water, stone etc are as well but...) Iwa's was the increased damage because the clones were made from a harder substance. The Lightning clone was dangerous to touch. And so on. (OK the sand clones had no advantage and Suna can fight me for that haha) I dunno if the relatively low Cp cost is enough of a bonus though... just my few cents.

When you say "can create" do you mean create in 1 go or maintain? Thanks for bringing up the issue of the cap. I think we meant to have it but forgot gonk

Agree with the special weapon properties.

As for village specificity that is for another thread.


As for the normal attack. Allowing weapon damage as well.
Max clones = the max you can maintain on the field at once.
I kind of agree with the DB stuff, but if we did that, would yo be okay with clones doing 75% of dmg instead?

PupSage

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kouri-chan_xx
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:33 am


PupSage
kouri-chan_xx
RE clones

What do you mean by normal attacks Sage? (vs taijutsu)
From a balance perspective I can understand the x1.1 Cp cost for performing jutsus.

One part of me wants to agree with Hiru that there should be a reduction of the Dodge and Reflex to normal. When making the village clone jutsus though we tried to give every village a bonus. Konoha's is obviously the fact that the clones are solid (it's actually kind of a shitty advantage since the water, stone etc are as well but...) Iwa's was the increased damage because the clones were made from a harder substance. The Lightning clone was dangerous to touch. And so on. (OK the sand clones had no advantage and Suna can fight me for that haha) I dunno if the relatively low Cp cost is enough of a bonus though... just my few cents.

When you say "can create" do you mean create in 1 go or maintain? Thanks for bringing up the issue of the cap. I think we meant to have it but forgot gonk

Agree with the special weapon properties.

As for village specificity that is for another thread.


As for the normal attack. Allowing weapon damage as well.
Max clones = the max you can maintain on the field at once.
I kind of agree with the DB stuff, but if we did that, would yo be okay with clones doing 75% of dmg instead?


Ah taijutsu = hand to hand and weapon combat. Probably best to make that clear though. So okay cool.

Even better!

Sure, sounds great actually.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:48 am


Well, from what I see the Lightning clone is already in the general list, so I still think they should pretty much all be there. Still, if we say every village should have its unique clone, Konoha should most likely have some sort of fire clone (since they are in the Fire Country) and the kage bunshin which is basically elementless, should most likely be a general technique.

However, for the changes yes I had forgotten that Kisame's clones used the water prison (its actually the image in our technique list). So for these changes they seem fine to me.

Hoshigaki Hiru
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Over Yandere
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:03 pm


Your good sage.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:12 pm


Hoshigaki Hiru
Well, from what I see the Lightning clone is already in the general list, so I still think they should pretty much all be there. Still, if we say every village should have its unique clone, Konoha should most likely have some sort of fire clone (since they are in the Fire Country) and the kage bunshin which is basically elementless, should most likely be a general technique.

However, for the changes yes I had forgotten that Kisame's clones used the water prison (its actually the image in our technique list). So for these changes they seem fine to me.

Kage Bushin
Suiton Bushin
Raiton Bushin
Suna Bushin
Doton Bushin

Those are the five main village clones.

Yeah, Kakashi had Kage and Raiton clones. He used both against Pain.

Itachi had Water Clone...

Not sure if anyone else had any other village techniques... Deidara has Kage Bushin for some reason.

Who is the other person with Kage Bushin not from Konoha Tai? I forgot.

Anyways, Elemental clones can use the techniques of their element, and taijutsu... that is all fair.

+1.

Qyp
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kouri-chan_xx
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:27 am


And edited in now.
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