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Subject one is 16 and lives at home. Her parents have strong religious beliefs and will not allow anything that did not conform to those beliefs into the house. The subject has a real interest in pursuing a spiritual and magickal path, but very restricted as to what is available to her. Because she knows so little it seems reasonable to her to cobble together a personal tradition from sources that ARE available such as Harry Potter, LOTR, Wizards of Waverly Place ect.

Subject two is 22 and lives in his own apartment. He owns all the proper ritual tools. He can quote Gardner and Hutton word for word. He attends celebrations of every Sabbat and Esbat. He never misses one b/c he fought to get those days off work as religious holidays. BUT, he only does all this b/c the local girls his age prefer to do rituals skyclad.

IYO, what is the fluff factor of these two subjects and why?

I'm gonna say that the guy that just goes through the motions to see naked women is the fluffiest. He's pulling one of the oldest cons there is in pretending to be deep and mysterious in order to get chicks.

The other subject is just doing what she can and if it actually works for her then I don't see what the problem is. The Cult of Authenticity spends more time arguing over what's "right" than discussing what works.

So, you feel that "fluffiness" is a measurment of seriousness as oppose to knowledge or validity? I ask b/c the jury seems to be out on that point.

I think that the whole idea of fluffiness is ******** stupid. It's a way for people interested in a certain thing to separate themselves from other people interested in the same thing that they don't agree with in a desperate grab for legitimacy. The fact is that there are no rules in the first place. No one is keeping score. Arguing over historical information is one thing but arguing over how one performs magic is just stupid.

You read Silver Ravenwolf? You must be a damned fluff! Never mind that it works for you, you're still a fluffy. It's much more important to establish some kind of illusion of legitimacy to the outside world than to get practical results. rolleyes It's magic for ******** sake. Fluffiness is all arbitrary and calling people fluffy because you don't agree with them is about as petty as it gets.

I won't even get into how petty the metaphysical/occult community tends to be because I think it's the same with every group with a common focus. That's been my experience with humanity anyway. Everyone strives to be more legitimate than everyone else. When it comes to something like magic that whole notion is ******** stupid when the entirety of mainstream science (the established epistemology of this era) doesn't believe a word you say. Like I said, no one is keeping score and arguing about it is dumb.

As to how fluffiness relates to seriousness vs. knowledge: I have a particular disdain for armchair occultists, those people that know "everything" but don't do a damn thing with it. Don't tell me how things are when you've never experienced it firsthand. Don't tell me how it's "supposed to be done" when you've never even made an attempt. I tend to piss these types off because I don't always use traditional methods or rituals to get my results. I adapt things to suit my paradigm and that's why they work for me. By all accounts what I do should have no effect and shouldn't work if you listen to the Cult of Authenticity. But it works for me. In light of that, ******** them.

To me fluffiness is an epithet used to show disdain for someone or their methods. It's not an actual thing that can be defined; it is defined according to the characteristics the person throwing it dislikes. Fluffiness doesn't exist except as something to b***h about by people that take themselves too seriously, pretending that anyone gives a damn about how many books they've read or how many rituals they've done.

In short, fluffiness is not a measurement of anything except how much someone doesn't like you or what you do. This is evident in my response to your examples. I despise the type of occultist you described, spouting passages and maintaining a look just to get girls or to "be cool" more than I dislike someone that is trying to find magic in any place they can. I'm sure other people will respond differently, or at least for different reasons, depending on their own life experience. Fluffy bunny is defined differently by each individual that uses it.

Or are self decieving b/c they don't have the courage to break from a faith that does little for them.

I agree with the second one not truly being of the religion, but for me, the definition for fluffy is someone who will take anyone's word about something without question, in a way, a blind faith, being ignorant. Kinda like the fluffy fur absorbing every bit of water, the person will absorb everything and believe it. Now, I have no issue with trying to find what works for you, thats not fluffy, whats fluffy is leaving your guard down around people who may be making claims just to gain something for themselves and leaving the fluffy person a victim, such as a guy going up to a girl who is looking to join a coven, and he says that in order to gain the powers and knowledge of magick and to get initiated into the coven, she has to have sex with him, if she is fluffy, she will completely believe it and do it without question. I myself have been fluffy twice, and because I completely trusted the words of two different people, I lost one relationship, and have damaged the one I am in, I have been a victim of my own ignorance.
That is my definition of Fluffy Bunny, being ignorant, blind faith.

I'll get on the re-post here in a bit.