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Kiln Aro Malac Vice Captain
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 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:39 pm
We can't send out a second announcement in the same day, so this will actually be sent out tomorrow as a guild announcement as well. There has been an... issue.
A serious issue was presented with the last Announcement as it was phrased wrong in my opinion, and I spoke with Kiki (Angell) about it. The way it was phrased may it seem like she was telling people to kill of their characters as the chance arrived. DO NOT DO THAT!!!!!! I cannot express that strongly enough, do not do that!
Also, I want some people's opinion on this issue as well. I understand what Kiki is trying to do, but I also believe this issue needs to be open for discussion because it's a pretty serious thing to do. If you have over three characters (such as myself) then I'm pretty sure you're going to want to put something here.
This is open, talk about it as you will.
((This is in red, because it's important you know.))
If anyone gets mad at Kiki, calm your horses down XD Kiki's phrasing was bad, not her intentions. I have a post that explains that down the page, so go look for it. I didn't post this out of spite, I did indeed talk to her about it before I did and found out that she hadn't intended to just kill off characters, fyi. Don't get mad at her.
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:49 pm
I don't see an issue, things are going slow enough that so many characters isn't a confusing cluster ********, and I haven't seen character's kinda sorta blending into each other.
Also; I'm totally the first vote and responder. Yes! -armpump-
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:58 pm
To many characters can always be a problem.
However for this guild its to slow for such confusion and everyone else is happy with the characters they have.
Its a good thing that people make characters, it keeps the guild alive. That in itself is rare among other guild ive seen that couldn't even start. Of course, limits are also needed so people keep track of all there characters. Three is very easy to handle in this guild.
That is what I think.
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:11 pm
Now, before anyone jumps to conclusions about my opinion, I do want to point out that I'm not saying characters shouldn't die. It's a war based setting, so people are going to die. I just realized that might have gone missed in my first post, so I'll put it now. Now, another another issue.
Here's my opinion. I don't think characters shouldn't die. People die in war, it's simple. I'm just against going into a fight and deciding that a characters going to die. It doesn't work that way. I don't know about anyone else, but when I make a character it's like making another person. I'm not just going to go and say, "okay, you can die now." Because that's like killing a person to me. These characters I make get their own identities in my mind as they grow and they become people in my mind. When I roleplay, I'm not controlling them. It's more like this is what the person I've created would do. It's kind of hard to just kill of a person, sorry, not easy for me.
And allow me to also point out that I've had the first fatality of Last Dream with Cieven Yaine, to those of you who remember him. Yes, I watched a character of mine die, and it was planned but for a reason. It was painful for me to kill him off because he had potential. Just saying kill off a character takes away that character's potential to grow and become a person in themselves.
Sorry for this being kinda long, but this is a matter important to me. I don't care if the character is an NPC (looks at Griel) they can become something, and an NPC can still be extremely important (looks at Yute). Yes, people will die, but I'm against it being an accepted fact that we need to kill off characters. I don't agree that it's the approach to take.
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Kiln Aro Malac Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:30 pm
I write on another roleplaying site where the whole point is to eventually kill your character (Based on Battle Royale for those who know)
Basically we have rolls. Every month we roll 7 random characters, and the writers have to find a killer, and kill them off.
Now we have way less characters though, (The site I'm on had like, 200 it was ridiculous and nearly everyone had 4 characters)
Here is an idea. When the time comes to amp up the stakes, we roll characters to die. Amount is whatever we chose. Characters will eventually be killed off whenever the writer thinks it'd be a good time.
A lot of people think killing off a character can be anti-climactic, but it's actually really fun! You get a chance to pull out all the stops and make it a death to remember. I think we should try something like this.
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:58 pm
Um..........Wolfy............no.......no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no. The dice thing is just no. The thing is..........if you are truly sadistic, it is fun to kill off people...but as Kiln stated, you get attached to your characters. I would cry if Eko or Ezio died. They are legitimately my pride and joy, more or less the two parts of me...in real life. It is anti-climactic. Basically, you're playing the role of the man upstairs and life isn't like that....there are always chances. After a while...you don't want them to die. Rolling the dice is to me unrealistic. Now personally, I don't think I'm one to talk about this...I'm only a novice RPer myself. But I rest my case.
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Kiln Aro Malac Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:38 pm
That's... different Wolf.
So I totally realized something right before I was getting ready to go to bed. Before anyone things that Kiki's goal is just to kill off characters, not's not what's going on! I don't believe she intended for it to be phrased as kill people off sweatdrop She want's it to be logical, not suicide. Anyways, I digress. The entire purpose of this is to see how you all view it.
Sorry Kiki if I made you mad sweatdrop I didn't think about pointing this out till now XD This will also let you see people's input on killing off characters though. Anyways, now to bed XD
Also, Eko, characters die. It's what happens when they fight and lose actually. I was just saying random dying off in fighting where the person shouldn't have to die I'm against. If you put Eko vs. Delfian you better be ready to die, cause I don't think you're walking away from that one.
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:57 pm
 wahmbulance LDPF wahmbulance
...gonna f'you up...YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT KILN! Edited by: Tal of Kinglore||
Reason: Was not formatted||
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:05 pm
Death is random, and life is naturally filled with anti-climaxes. A roll of the die is about as realistic as we can get =P I'm not saying kill'em off right away, I'm saying work the death into the story.
It's probably a good thing that you're attached to your characters Eko. If you didn't care about killing them off, it's a reasonable assumption no one else cares about them either. Shows you put thought into them. =P
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:03 am
Gee... You made me seem like some heartless murderer kiln....
I don't appreciate that.
Thank you for fixing that but seriously I don't need my whole guild against me and hating me.
I am just saying that I don't want people making character just for the hell of it because things are not moving. That us why we have arena's and the side RP's.
Same with NPC's... That annoys me more then anything just randomly adding NPC's for no reason at all except you want to roleplay. Thats not okay with me.
And yes I said that characters need to die. So I want you to be open to death when the time comes.
Don't get me wrong I am attached to my characters too and I wouldn't want any of them to die as I am sure you feel to but theres just to many for my comfort in the guild.
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Kiln Aro Malac Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:06 am
*frown* I'm not sure I agree with that.
If you are talking about disease and other accidents that cause people to die, then yes death is random, but in the sense of a fight it is not random, not unless the person is extremely clumsy or lucky. Then it's random.
Look at it this way: If you were to place a swordmaster against a novice, the outcome isn't going to be random, not unless you pile on a mile of luck onto the novice to give him a chance. In this roleplay, fighting isn't about having the stronger character or anything of the sort. It's about how you can out think your opponent and draw yourself in for a victory. Yes it helps to have a strong character, but the only real way to win is to think out a strategy. That isn't random. By what you're saying, there is no point in even trying to come up with a logical strategy in a fight because you already know the outcome. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in fact that's boring. I don't want to go into a fight knowing I'm going to lose or win. I want to use what skills I've learned as a roleplayer to deserve to win a fight by skill, not by luck.
Oh, and I doubt all six of my characters are going to make it through this. I'd consider it a miracle is I lose less than three. It's going to take a lot of luck, the bonds that have formed between characters to keep any of mine alive, and any planning I do doesn't get characters killed. In other words, yes Wolf I'm well prepared for some of my characters to die.
Edit: Kiki, your guild won't hate you. Even if you told me to kill off three of my characters by next week I don't think I'd hate you, I'd be annoyed and likely argue about it, but I wouldn't hate you. Plus, part of the guild are friends of yours and I doubt they will hate you. If anyone hates you here then I'm not a hundred percent sure why they're here.
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:34 pm
Hm. This seems to be an ongoing debate. First things first, Angell no one hates or feels any discontent with you for the announcement made. I don't actually know what it was, I never saw it, but if it was what I am getting from the bits and pieces I can assure you that no one could seriously get mad at you for something like that. If there is someone here who feels discontent with your opinions than I would like for them to step forward so we may address this now and not later. We function so well because we can communicate with one another, and I would like for that to remain true even with the large addition to our numbers.
I will admit that the number of characters is exceeding, but I do not think it is so large a digit that we even consider killing them off. While Kiln does make a valid point in that this is war, though it's not been stressed in my opinion, characters do die and it should be expected. Now do I agree with Wolf's idea on rolling for the death of a small percentage of our characters to die? No. For one that sort of randomness could be problematic for the development of the story. 1) If you were to have 800 characters for a single RP that would make sense to do because there would still be plenty of people to carry on the story. In a case like Last Dream, however, we actually have few, in my mind that is, and most of the characters are involved in some way or another with the story in such a way that makes them important. To kill them off, even in a way that makes it literary and interesting to read about, could have devastating effects on the role play.
If it's a matter of there being too many characters, I wonder if there really is any reason to lower the numbers. Right now, as has been pointed out before, the pace at which we are moving is so slow that you don't have to worry about a thousand posts a day all from different characters. If it seems like some are popping up more often than others is because someone(s) aren't being active enough to balance things out. As for NPCs, I'll admit I have a few, I think more than everyone else, but in a way they are important. Maybe not to the story, or to the other characters, but in order to develop my main character, Eamonn, more as a person they are vital and without them I would feel less satisfied than I already am with him. When I post for an NPC it is not because I wish to RP it is because I want to make it known that they are not just random characters thrown into his life but real people who have lives of their own. Maybe that is a problem in of itself, but for me they are necessary.
I admit that I would be sad if my characters died. With the exception of Adonis, who was made simply to be thrown into Lilith's ranks when there was but only three, I have grown attached to my characters and would probably spend some time contemplating their deaths should they die. I'll admit that there will have to be some casualties, with the exception of Telnith who has been predetermined to survive this any one of them could go depending on the situation, I'm willing to accept their death if I have to but I would not want it to be decided by the roll of a die. I do not wish to put you down Wolf, if anything I greatly value your ideas as a fellow RPer, but as I have pointed out before it seems too random a choice. If my characters were to die I would like it to be planned out. Maybe it doesn't have to be some climactic, honorable sacrifice where one of them dies for a cause --as I have been told it's an immature way of thinking-- but I would like for it to have some sort of effect as long as it meant the forwarding of the RP.
All said, if characters need to be limited I will listen to what out to what is said. Personally I feel we are fine with the numbers we have and believe that it is only the lack of active players that brings about this sort of thinking. As long as thing stick to the pace we're at now, or even a little quicker, I think we will do fine until the time battles do take place and come up.
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Tal of Kinglore Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:12 pm
I wasn't saying kill them off immediately after being rolled, but put them on tab to die at some point before the end of the RP, when the writer finds it appropriate and logical.
As for what Kiln was saying, I agree, novice against master swordsman, it's obvious who will come out on top barring extreme circumstances.
I guess what I differ on is this. You seem to be saying RPing is a game, where you go in and want to win the fight with skill. Already knowing the outcome is boring, you want to win with strategy. That's fine, and it doesn't detract from your writing at all. s**t, you've got like, six characters you're juggling between, and I've known really good writers who have the same idea as you. It's just that I've also seen writers who see things that way, and GM massively to ensure their characters survival, logic and reason be damned.
I don't think a roll of the die is unrealistic, because reality is unrealistic. Upsets happen, with luck or with strategy or with strange circumstances, or whatever. If we keep death random, it limits that attitude of "My character above all", because we're all equal under the dice, and have an equal chance at getting struck with death. What's the point of having an uber powerful cannot be defeated type character if their survival isn't assured? We may still be at different levels of power, but that doesn't mean survival is assured.
I think RPing is a team effort. For me, I don't care if I know at the end of my thread, my character is going to die, or something really shocking will happen. Death happens in stories, and I'm not going to shy away from killing one of my favorite characters, especially if they've served their purpose. That's not what I'm focused on, what I'm focused on is making the journey towards that point as entertaining as possible for the reader. That means working with co-writers to make the scene perfect, instead of going in blind and focusing solely on benefiting my character.
I forgot what I was saying.
Hopefully that explains what I meant, even though I'm sure we're going with a different idea.
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:20 am
evil Alright. This has raged on far too long. and I seem to have been forgotten twisted
*steps out of the shadows in a shower of smoke and hellfire.*
Firstly, the decision of who lives and dies, barring extremely unforseen circumstances, truely rests with Delfian. Paparo and Tal know this better than anyone, but you're all enwrapped in his little web. as far as your point Wolfy. I've been there, and understand why you'd suggest it. However, the fact is Dice are useful primarily when the fellow Rpers can't be trusted to roleplay p[roperly. As you've said yourself "Logic be damned my character will survive." This is the flaw of a novice RPer, one which we certainly are not tolerant of. If you don't believe me, check out some of the fights with Eko, the fight with Eko and Griel in particular. This roleplay has been built around trust and as well a mutual respect. Honestly I think that is the reason the others have been so adverse to the idea of dice. Wolfy, I can tell you from experience with everyone here, that Dice will be unnecessary. If a character is going to die, then they'll die. No one has the mindset of "my character first" save for Eko, and we've successfully beaten most of that out of him as well.
As far as there being too many characters I'd like to simply state the following. So far we've been able to consistently roleplay with few people being left out, at any point there will be at least one open position to be filled by a fellow roleplayer which allows for everyone to be roleplaying and changing partners at a steady but not rushed rate. I honestly believe that we've gained as many characters as have been necessary to keep the roleplay engaging as well as keep everyone active.
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