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Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:48 pm
How 'set in stone' are your characters? Is it hard for you to: change their name? change their appearance? tweak their personality? change their age? etc.
And I mean that in any small or big way. I personally completely changed the identity of my main character, several times (including gender). Now he's been the same for about two years, and I think I want to change his last name, but I have this hesitation to do it. How ironic.
Main characters are the hardest to change, but how about side characters as well?
And while we're at it, how often do you cut characters?
What do you think keeps you hesitant to change?
As of the last year, its hard for me to change anything. My characters are more than ever like real people to me, and I feel like I'm losing pieces of them if I try to change them. Of course, this only pertains to the 4-5 main characters. The rest are changed, cut, and added as needed. XD
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:55 am
A lot of my characters grow and change a few times before I am satisfied with them.
-Names
Names are probably the hardest for me to change, though I will do it if I feel it is not working, or if I have outgrown it. I seriously once had a character named Ethereal-Serenity (I was like, ten). The character (and the name) are both thankfully dead and buried. I also used to be obsessed with jewels ("Ruby" was my favorite: surnames, first names, middle names, a lot of characters had it as part of their name. I do not use jewel names at all anymore).
Often, temporary names stick in some way. Recent example: I had a werewolf that I called "Wulf" (pronounced "vulf," as I stole it from German) just so I had a way to reference him when discussing him with a friend. I never intended for it to stay, and eventually decided "Freddy" was a fitting name for him. However, I am having a hard time shaking "Wulf" away (partially due to said friend's insistence, since she likes it better). I am probably going to end up keeping it as a nickname. Unless I decide his full name is "Frederick Wulf," but I try to avoid obvious "species" names (none of my vampires have "V" names or Romanian/Slavic-based names, for example, and I avoid names like Selene/a for obvious reasons).
I have another character whose first name became her surname, because I thought it was too cool to dispose of entirely, but it simply did not fit as a first name.
-Appearance
Appearance, I am more flexible on. One character, for example, was once flawless, but given her history and lifestyle, she now has a lot of scars over her back, stomach, parts of her chest, upper arms, and upper legs, which she keeps covered, and I have debated scarring her face. Right now, I have decided against it. Most of the scars come from pain training, and scarring her face simply makes no sense (though my universe is "balanced" in that another female character has half of her face horrendously and permanently damaged. XP [/cruel author]). This same character used to be very skinny; now she has a stockier build.
Another character, I intentionally made his hair wavy because I realized all of my "good" (the closest I can call good, since as you put it yourself, my works are "shades of 'black' and 'slightly less black'." As a note, I use these terms to signify personality, not morality) characters had straight hair, and the "bad" ones (with a few exceptions) had curly or wavy hair. I gave another "good" character curly hair for the same reason, and have been better about balancing physical traits in-general.
I have also made good characters ugly (some of which find love), bad characters pretty (some of which do not), and have a bunch of Average Joes on both sides. I am not afraid to torture my characters, and a lot of them have lasting scars, missing/replaced limbs, disfigured appearances, and other distinguishing marks that they gain and keep as the plot progresses. I dislike scars and ugliness that "magically" go away.
-Personality
This one is actually the easiest one for me to change, because as my characters are very ingrained into their story, their personalities reflect the outcome (which can be a real pain if a personality change effects a major plot point, but I have been able to fix them easily so far).
My best example is my sadist: he went from a typical evil character, to a still-evil character with mislead intentions, to a very harsh, but slightly reasonable authority figure, to a character whose well-meaning-but-terrible choices set him on a bad path, to arguably one of the most tragic characters I have ever come up with. The sadistic streak has always been a core part of his character, but the current version is so much better than my original "evil for the lulz" character, and I think he has the most characterization and depth out of any character I have ever created.
I have also had characters entirely pull a one-eighty: a villain who turned into a neutral advisor, a loud, energetic, hyperactive young woman who became quiet, stoic, and serious, and a shallow "good" character who became one of the most evil manipulative bitches to ever grace my works.
-Age
This one is rare, as I often factor in age as I place the character into the story, but I have altered it as the plot needed. Often it comes about because I suck at math. XP
I seriously have an "age time line" written out to how old certain characters are at certain events to keep myself straight, though I did change some events in a character's life from five to eight because she would be better able to remember them.
-Side characters
Side characters are, funnily enough, more likely to change than the main characters for me. I like to develop all of my named characters to the point where I can at least know a small slice of their lives. Kind of when you chit-chat with someone in a long line at the supermarket or while waiting at a bus stop, and have a vague idea of what they are like. Name, job, one or two goals in life, and one distinguishing characteristic, like dyed hair or a strange way of speaking.
If I can use the side character again, their development (and little sliver of personality) may change based on what I need them for.
-Cut characters
I used to cut like nobody's business (I have notebooks full of characters I used to love, but now either I hate them because I find them annoying [and because I wrote them when I was a kid...], or have no use for them), but nowadays, my characters often have an integral purpose to my plots, and their creation is to fulfill the roles I need them to.
I have, however, had to cut one or two recently, since they were doing nothing to the story. Some time back, I managed to re-work a cut character back into my canon, though he risks getting cut again because my plot has changed since I brought him back.
-Hesitation
Mostly what makes me hesitate to change something is directly proportional to how long I had it.
Best example: for years, I had a character die by being impaled with his own sword. Literally, since his initial creation and in-story death, this was how he died in my stories and through role play for over seven years. The sword itself was important...or so I thought, as just months ago, I was reworking other things and realized the sword served no purpose other than to make another character angsty.
I hesitated. This was something I had literally had for years, and for that reason alone, I wanted to save it. But the sword was useless, and if I took it away, it literally changed nothing, except making the angsting character less angsty.
This character now dies of poisoning, which works a bit better for the person who killed him anyway. And I am proud of my choice, as I like this better myself.
I am even more proud of being able to cut things that people point out are simply not working, regardless of how long I had it. Often, I can just save those ideas and pull them out for other stories later, and I usually like the changes better anyway. Ever since I got the courage to cut the sword, I have been more willing to cut "classic" parts of my canon and either rework them elsewhere, or store them away for later.
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Psychotic Maniacal Sanity Crew
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:52 am
My characters usually grow and develop while I write them, so I don't often have to change anything major once the writing begins. However, that's not to say that they are completely static the entire time, because before the writing starts they usually change completely several times. I've shifted narration to different characters, changed appearances, names, backgrounds, everything. Side characters get more reworking that the main characters, but that's usually just because the main characters tend to be fully formed (ish) in my head before I even begin developing the side characters.
One of the things I don't usually change, though, especially in main characters, is their name. I think that happens because I put a lot of thought into the names for my characters and usually there is no need to change. I would definitely edit and shift things around if I needed to, but often that isn't the case. So mostly, my characters have the same name they start out with. Except for an old character, Thorne, who later became (the much-less-mary-sue-ish) Amaryllis (that doesn't sound much better, but if you knew the character background it would make more sense XP).
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:32 am
My characters are the first thing I develop when I want to write something- I may start out with names that I know I'm going to change so that I can have a name to describe them with. Once I decide on a name, it sticks unless I have major problems with it- I've never had to change a character's final name.
Appearance almost never changes either- once, I tried to change one of my character's hair color from black to red. It didn't have anything to do with the plot, and yet, I disliked it so much that I changed it back only a day later.
Personality doesn't change much either. Neither does age. I guess the best way to put it (before I ramble on further) is that I treat my characters like real people that I see walking down the street. You can't just alter a random person's age, personality or looks, and that's how it is with my characters. I create the story, drop the characters in, and see what they do. They may have their intentions change, but for the most part, everything remains the same. This goes for side characters as well.
I'm not exactly hesitant to change it- I just find it so much more interesting to work with an untweakable character and see what they do in a situation in which I'd do something entirely different. Otherwise, I'd be afraid of making all my characters the same, and it's just so much more fun this way.
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:51 pm
Nothing is set in stone when I write. Stories are changeable, and (until something is published) none of my characters are safe from being cut or losing their name or getting an appearance overhaul--not that I really describe my characters much.
There are times I'm resistant to changing something. One of my characters is a large girl because I wanted a main character who was bigger and happy with herself. It wasn't an issue in the book, but it was important to me to include a character like that just because, and not to make it into an issue. Things like that I try not to change. Other things are all fair game.
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:13 pm
Nice book, Nightmare. XD You and I are suprising alike in these categories, except I don't feel like I have a free pass to torture my characters. If a character has a name for over a year, its hard for me to change it. I have to applaud you on your efforts to stay away from jewel names and Romanian/Slavic names with your vampires (when I read them, I'm just like 'somebody shoot me now. Better yet, shoot the author).
Appearances change all the time for me- but they're usually minor changes. I have no hesitation in changing appearance, not even in my main character (of course, I know what I want my main character to look like, and it hasn't changed for two years). I still don't have a clear picture of many of my side characters.
Personalities are still somewhat vague for many of my side characters, I only have their most prominent features down. So I don't necessarily 'change' their personalities as much as I 'add' to them.
I finally started considering age because my story involves young people and spans over a decade.
I don't cut characters anymore because I pretty much only have base characters anymore (I really went gung-ho with the cutting).
The longevity of something definitely determines how hesitant I am to change it.
Psychotic: My characters definitely develope as I write them and form a basic plotline. My main characters have changed little to none in the last year, but my side characters change unpredictably. I am sooo picky about names- I still don't like my user name and I'm still trying to think of something thats truly satisfying. Many of my characters have place-holding names because I still want something better. Uhg, I need a baby-name book (I can't curl up on the couch with a computer and a baby-name website).
Chezhire: I've come across a few people who treat their characters like real, unchangable people. I do respect your point of view, and I somewhat understand it. I personally dislike that sort of logic because it makes me feel like the author is not really in control and can't change to improve. But I know thats not really the case. I am not, in anyway, trying to say you're less of a writer or anything like that- those are just loose feelings, not fact.
I will also add that after I have had a character for more than a year, it is extremely hard for me to change them, because at that point, they really are like real people.
Racheling, I like to have 'different' characters as well, without making them an issue. There are, as a matter of fact, ugly people in this world- and many of them. There should be plenty of them in books, but there aren't. So sometimes I just point out that one of my characters is ugly, end of story. Nothing ever revolves around their lack of beauty. Although I don't so easily change my characters, I pretty much have the same outlook. If I don't feel like it that day, I change it. My main character's mother is getting uglier as we speak. XD
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for reading my short story. Geez, Nightmare, look what I've done now!
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:32 pm
Thank you. <3 I see that I have not disappointed.
If my characters were real people, a majority of them would be after my blood for some of the hell I put them through. I am a horrible, horrible author sometimes.
Considering my vampires are British, French, Irish, and American (that I can recall off the top of my head), it makes no sense to use Romanian/Slavic names anyway, not to mention at least three of them regularly go through aliases. If I ever cave and use a jewel name, I will probably make it a minor character and have her bemoan how her mother must have been high when she was named. XP
...Now I want to do this. >> *resists*
I generally have a basic idea of what my characters look like. Big changes tend to be plot-related, though I had a few "sure, why not?" moments regarding minor changes.
I have a baby name book for this reason, though I normally just use it for inspiration/to look up name origins as opposed to meanings. I often ignore name meanings, so a meaningful name ends up an accident.
Racheling: That is the reason why a lot of my characters are average or ugly, actually. I never make it an issue, either, but seeing as a lot of my characters are monsters, this was inevitable. I like playing with body type, too. The one chick with the "desirable" hour glass figure, curves, and thin waist...is a manipulative b***h, and one of my most hated characters, both in-universe and out. My other women vary from having bigger figures, to being thin, chest-less waifs, to any variation in between. I do the same with my men: some are big and bulky, others tall and thin, and a few are short and stocky.
I see I have rubbed off on you, Princess, and it seems you have finally been able to match a response with me. XD You are welcome.
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:51 pm
How 'set in stone' are your characters? Is it hard for you to: change their name? To me, a name is how I create my character. I could be sitting in math and a random name like Joanna-for example's sake- will pop into mind. Then I'll think along the lines of "What would a girl named Joanna look like, talk like, what would her favorite color be? Who would she spend her last day on earth with? " and just generally try and turn her into a living breathing person. With that said, it makes it incredibly difficult for me to change first names.
change their appearance? Like I said, my stories are built around characters, but I would alter them in small ways, like adding scars from memories I think up or changing body shape to fit their habits, things like that.
tweak their personality? I usually jump from one thing to its polar opposite, loud to quiet, smart to dumb and don't really stay in the middle. My characters are extremes, whether its their presence or lack of it.
change their age? I try to stick to teen characters because I am a teen and I don't have the experience to think or act older than that. I will adjust birthdays and siblings/parents/friends a lot though.
Main characters are the hardest to change, but how about side characters as well? Easy. The main characters are what the entire plot revolves around, so I cut alter and "smoosh" the hell outta my side characters.
And while we're at it, how often do you cut characters? Short attention span, shortlived stories. i save the characters though, and often stick them in other stories because I admired a certain attribute.
What do you think keeps you hesitant to change? It would probably be for fear of altering the story completely and accidently wondering away from what i wanted it to be when I first started it.
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:08 pm
Several of you have mentioned things like scars. I never thought about scars before. Ever. Not even for my villians. My character creation is definitely less thorough.
Nightmare, the only sad difference was that my response was to several people. Yours can really just revolve around one topic, to one person.
I never look up name meanings- I just don't even care. I like the name 'Fabian' so I'm going to use it, end of story. Sometimes I even disregard origin, and then I have to figure out how someone from 1790 in Mexico has an Italian name. The one thing I don't like about baby name books is how they're crammed full of weird, foreign names that I can't pronouce. I totally understand why they're there, but still... it hinders my search. Can't I just get an American/English/German/Russian baby name book?
Hamsters, you and I are so different with our character creation. I always come up with a vauge plot first, and then I only create characters as they're needed. But with your method, I totally see why its hard to change the name, and it kind of makes me laugh.
I hang onto old characters too- two in paticular, that I try to weasle into my main story every now and again. I will find a place for them one day.
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:55 pm
I like having permanent features like scars, tattoos, birthmarks, etc. I also like less-permanent distinguishers, like additional limbs, styles of clothing, and species-centric features.
I only look up meanings if I need to, and this has only happened once: I have a German character who is a deformed hunchback, but most German boy names have powerful meanings like "wolf," "king," or "great." I just wanted to be sure the name did not have any of those meanings, because that is what a parent would have done.
Plot and characters are almost one in the same for me, seeing as my plots tend to form through character interactions.
I save all of my characters and plots no matter how bad they are. I can always salvage them later.
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:49 pm
Princess~ I spoil my chracters too much...the story always revolves around them -.-" But its good to see that everyone has unique processes to write stories Nightmare~ I usually only look up meanings to names if I come up with a name, decide I don't like it, but want something that sounds like it, so I'll peruse baby name sites until I find a good name. I always look at the meaning, mostly to fulfill my curiosity though.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:37 am
Neuschwanstein: I totally know what you mean about a baby name book. If I had one, I'd spend much less time on the internet. XD But I do like to search specifically for origin and the dates of popularity for names, and often books can't help with that. The internet is handy.
Hamsters: My novels always revolve around my characters as well. It's very rare that I will start with a plot instead of characters. My characters always seem to come first, and then the plot of the novel follows. =P
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Psychotic Maniacal Sanity Crew
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:09 pm
Names are rarely, if ever, changed. I tend to stick to the same characters, or at least their names. For some reason, after a few years of writing with random bursts of new characters, I no longer have the ability to spout a new, original name. My first ever character was named Lia Demarita (Or something to that order. Her last name was lost over the ten or so years. Come on, I'm near 15 and can't remember everything, okay? ><), her name was actually based off of Leia from Star Wars. I just misspelled it. Haha... I used her for several years, off and on, shifting her character and appearance multiple times before I finally thought I had overused the name. Now, as you can see, I go with variations of Sapphire (Yes, it's a jewel name, but only really for the color and what the color means to me. Calm and peaceful type.). (EX Sapphira [made well before I read Eragon for the first time], Saipire [supposedly Elven], Sapphirianna [one of my favorites], Sapphi, etc.) I tend to have names with the 'anna' (AW-na) at the end. I don't know why, I just do. Also, the names usually reflect their personality in some way. I think "Sapphirianna" reflects a quieter girl, a little wiser than "Madalyn" who is usually the sweet, innocent younger girl.
Appearances often vary, but they are almost always girls with at the least, blue eyes. I don't really know why I'm so fascinated with blue eyes, I just am. I actually wish I was born with blue eyes and black hair instead of brown eyes and brown hair. Usually, my characters are tall and thin and muscular. Although I am more flexible on this than the names of my character.
Age for my characters range from 11-26. Eleven being the youngest characters (main characters) I have ever developed. It just seems to be a popular age to start adventuring at (which are mostly my types of books).
Personalities vary from extreme ADD type of person to silently angry at herself. Although I'm always ready to try something new. (Fun fact: Sometimes, I watch classmates with specific traits to make my character more realistic. Not the creepy way, but enough to notice certain habits and flaws.)
I hate changing characters because usually I've worked really hard on them.
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Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:32 pm
Nightmare, I throw alot of stuff away- or more like, I make a point to forget it. Besides that, many of my crappy old plots lasted about a day, before I moved onto something else. I hardly ever look up name meanings because they're usually something good, and so far I haven't come up with any characters where thats an issue. But its a good point to consider. I should just make a list of all the things you say to me, cause most of them would really benefit me.
Saph: I get so sick of the same names. Part of the reason is that I play sims, and I frequently run out of names for my people. Uhg. Although names really do suggest certain personalities, I don't like to stick to that sort of method too much. Having a wild, fun-loving character named 'Wilhemina' and a soft, quiet girl named 'Mary' seems like sterotyping to me. I have to work hard to not make all my characters tall and thin and muscular, cause I tend to make too many of them. I also run in an age range between 10 and 30, because those are the ages I have the most experience with.
Psychotic: Do people ever just call you PMS? Anyway, I'm always in the popular name section, cause I don't have time to browse through all the unpronounceable lists.
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Psychotic Maniacal Sanity Crew
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:01 pm
People always call me PMS. It's the name I often choose to go by. xd Feel free to join the club. Ewww, unpronounceables. Not a big fan of those!
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