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The_Master_Wielder
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:10 pm


This thread has two purposes.

Previously, I brought Ferregar's request for promotion to the Crew. They unanimously agreed, no.

1) In this thread, he is to ask them questions as to why they denied him, and support his argument for his ascension to crew.
2) In this thread, other members may voice their support or otherwise of Ferregar's request for crew status.

Begin.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:53 pm


Firstly, to the crew:

Thank you for giving some of your time to the discussions in this topic. I appreciate your time sincerely, and I look forward to the discussion that will be hosted. I respect each of you greatly, and hope that this will be a dialogue between peers, not a discourse between a member and officers.

Secondly, to the members:

Again, thank you for your time as well. For anyone who would be involved in this thread, regardless of whether or not you support or oppose my integration into the GML's crew, I respect and admire your willingness to speak out in this thread. Your opinions have great merit, and if we are to create a guild that is truly democratic, open and transparent to its members, each of you needs to have a voice. I hope that you will use it, regardless of your opinions of me.

Now, in regards to this matter of my crew request.

I understand many of the reservations that the crew has regarding my appointment. The GML has been through a great deal, both before and after my first membership, and certainly before my return. We have suffered a good deal, and a number of members have defected from the guild in the conflicts that came about. Damage was done that can only be fixed with time, and thus I empathize with the mistrust and suspicion that has bred because of it.

Crew and Officers, you can rest assured that I have absolutely no disilussions or ill intent/ will against the GML. I do not seek to make it my own. I do not wish to destroy it. I think you can see that through my work here. I have no desire to rule, to revolt, or rebel. Those of you that do not believe this claim, state your concerns now, and I will address them individually. I care for all of your opinions, and desire nothing more than to show each and every one of you that, despite the misfortune that has befallen our guild in the past, you can trust me. I have been here for a time, both before and after our most recent disasters. Look at my work in the guild, and how I interact with all of you members. I am not aggressive, I am controlling but only to the point of a benefactor, and I do not have the time nor will to subjugate anyone. I love this guild, I wish to see it shine, and I will do everything in my power to insure its success.

Please talk to me honestly. Absolutely honestly. Every fear, reservation and suspicion you have of me I wish to see in this forum. I want this to be a correspondence of the heart, and I would be ashamed of anything less. Let me prove to you that I am what I seem, and that I have nothing to hide. I don't know how to do it, but I swear on my lover and the joys in my life that I will do anything I can to make it so.

Ferregar


The_Master_Wielder
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:59 pm


For the record, I'll be in this thread only as a referee, of sorts. I take no side.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:04 am


Hmmm... where to begin without being to "Me" about it....

I support Ferregar's possible promotion into the status of Crew without a single doubt on the matter. Personally, I believe he could run a successful guild of his own on the off chance he ever decides its something he wanted to do. The man lives creativity, on a level none of us could understand or claim for ourselves, both physically, mentally, and I admit to assume spiritually. If I saw a novel with his name on it, I would buy it. If he directed or starred in a movie, I would see it. And I have no doubts that they would be amazing.

That's what I have to say for now.

NotaSuperHero

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:41 am


User Image☸☸Ratchet Lombax☸☸

I can understand why the crew agreed no. Its not you but just due to the fact that things have happened in the past. It pretty much was made up to not let anyone else become a member of the crew.

Again Ferregar, it's not you, its more of past events.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:13 am


Jesse: Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad you see what I have to offer :]

Ratchet: I understand this. In fact, I don't think I can state any clearer how much such a position makes sense to me. After insurrection and the amount of damage that was done to the guild, xenophobia and suspicion is warranted. However, I am not a stranger. I've been a member of this guild twice, once after suicide soldier, the other after our most recent incidents. I've in no way contribute to or empathized with those people. I think they're damned foolish, and they've made it a pain in my a** to get more involved in GML!

The aggressive action of the select few shouldn't be so hindersome to the guild now. At least, that is my opinion. Having so much suspicion and lack of trust can only be harmful to the guild as a whole. We've been through alot, and I believe that now the only real way to bring the guild back to greatness is to start by looking at the members we have now, and accepting the fact that the few who remain are here to help. That makes sense, doesn't it? Any rabble rouser that lingers in the state GML is currently in is simply wasting their time.

But that can't be the only reason I was denied prior to this discussion. What other concerns do you, the officers, and you, the members, have? Do you have specific questions you would like to ask me? I'm here to answer them all, and be as open and helpful as I can.

Ferregar


Strifer Garuwashi

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:25 am


Honestly I don't see why not. On top of the level of creativity Darius mentioned he has something else that is the main reason I would never wish to become a member of crew. He seems responsible. While he has not had much time to work on things he has always been making suggestions on how to make the guild better, and if I do say so myself, in a mostly non-aggressive tone.

Another thing he seems to have is desire. Desire to make the guild better. The reason Wielder was made the guild captain, even if it was Gear's inactivity that lead to it.

But I am with Ferregar on one thing for sure. I would like to know why his request was denied. Had his position been suggested by Wielder instead of by himself, would it still have been denied?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:04 pm


Wielder had been the one to suggest it to us. My statement originally was in response to Wielder considering giving him temporary power. My response was that if Wielder was willing to be online at the same time as he was during crew tenure and watch/rapidly refresh the crew log like a hawk with a fetish for the F5 button, then he could be granted temporary power.

However, my personal opinion is starting to soften a bit, largely because the guild is in a state that its not going anywhere. I feel Ferregar has proven himself to be a loyal member, and I had promoted people to crew who had demonstrated and done less. Only two (Suicide and Typo) betrayed my trust, but sometimes that overshadowed the efforts of Wielder, Aiusagi, K', Kaneharo, and even some of the older crew members like Disaster and Super_Chihuahua.

Honestly, now that I'm back to enjoying my time on Gaia again, and I'm feeling slightly less irritated by the events that took place, I think I personally will recommend Ferregar be promoted to crew. There's my official opinion.

SkyeGear
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:11 pm


User Image☸☸Ratchet Lombax☸☸

Well other then that, im not sure why. Everyone seems to like the idea so go for it buddy.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:31 pm


Here's my position Ferregar. In all that I've read about your promotion to crew, I have heard a lot about what you wouldn't do wrong.

-You wouldn't be a suicide clone
-You won't betray us

I want to know what you /would/ do, I respectfully request to know the following.

-What you have done so far. Explain to me what your doing currently for the guild and why it is beneficial. Also other members are welcome to answer this question on your behalf.

-What will you do and why the crew status would be beneficial to you. Crew status does not give you that many special powers. You can delete threads, you can make topics into announcements, it's not very exciting. Why is crew status something you need to be an active and productive member of the guild?

One of the main reasons that we decided to not accept new applications, besides for the suicide incident, is we decided that we didn't need any more crew members, we currently have enough for the population we have in our guild. We can't really have every active member be a crew member because then we'll have no active regular members. I want to know why you deserve to be crew. And I hope you understand that I mean my questions with no disrespect, just curiosity.

Aiusagi
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K` the warrior

Omnipresent Krampus

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:24 pm


What Sagi said. But let me explain my point of view anyway.

I was probably one of the first people to say no to this. Yes, it was mostly because now I find it hard to trust people, especially after the Typo incident. I didn't think for a moment you'd turn into the next Suicide, by the way, but I was a bit uneasy. But I've seen the way you act and all and I know you're NOTHING like that thing. You're a good guy and you care about the guild. I know that this is not part of a masterpiece to take over the guild or to do something evil like that. I completely trust you on that one. Why would I have doubts anyway?

However, the reason why I said no is:
1) As Sagi said, we have enough Crew members as it is. Long ago, everyone decided that we didn't need any more Crew members. personally, I agree; we don't want to be one of those guilds that has a ridiculous amount of Crew members. We don't need them, to be honest. When Xeg was promoted, there was a lot of talk about how we shouldn't promote anyone else because we said so. But then we decided he was cool like that and he was promoted and THEN we decided not to promote anyone else because we don't need them. I don't know if most Crew members remember that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Despite that, you can see where I'm going with this. We're gonna keep doing this "Let's promote all active and interested members of the guild to crew members" things and one day, we're gonna have exactly what we tried to avoid. I'm not saying you don't deserve it, but there's just no more room! Simple as that. Thus, if we were to promote people merely based on how active they are or how willing they are to help, we would have to promote pretty much every single active member right now.

2) It was brought to my attention that you wanted to help out with the Haven primarily. Well, the previous person in charge of the Haven was Darius who was aided by Gear. Darius was never a Crew member for whatever reason and he did a LOT of things for the guild. Just look at the tournament sub-forum for a single example. So if you want to help, you don't need Crew powers anyway. Crew powers only give you the ability to move forums back and forth and delete them. And we don't delete forums, we move them. So technically, it only gives you the power to move stuff...and maybe lock threads. So just like Darius worked with Gear, you could work with some other Crew member in order to make this work. You need to move a thread? Holler and its done. You need to lock something? Consider it done. You want to try something out in some other different forum? Ask and ye shall receive. But truly, it's as if a Manager promotes someone to an Assistant manager position only so that that person can open and lock the store for him and that's all. Or why would you hire extra people at a store when you already have enough as it is?

Believe it or not, I think those were the two main concerns, or at least those were mine. It's nothing personal. Wielder did suggest this a while ago, by the way, and that's where we discussed this. It's not like it's an evil plot against him; it's just that we're packed as it is. I don't need to know what you would do for the guild or why you want to become a Crew member. I know you mean well and no one can deny that. But there ya have it.

However! The ONLY way I would be okay with him being a Crew member is if we have a vacant. And to be honest, I can't think of a Crew member that would leave or that needs to be demoted. And I don't want that to happen either.
Just so we're clear: Your willingness to help is not being rejected. It is, in fact, encouraged and welcomed. But I really don't see the need or the difference in becoming a Crew.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:28 pm


I'm glad you asked Aiusagi. Let me break it down.

Currently, what I AM Doing:
- Operating as The RP Haven's Moderator
- Revising The Haven's Method of RP Testing (You can see for yourself.)
- Developing uniform lore for the Guild
- Revising and brainstorming with Jesse's Class System to see how we could implement it, if we choose to, or edit it to a point in which it is manageable by the Guild's standards.
- Operating on the GML Towns Committee
- Developing Events and Contests for both in-Guild use and Towns/ zOMG

While I can understand your perspective on Crew promotion not being necessary, and I agree that it's true, please consider the following:

Without Crew, I have to wait on others to update/ post my work. This is a drawback for you, and an extreme drawback for me.
Without Crew, I am unable to directly contribute in the Crew Vault
Without Crew, because I must wait on others, development proceeds slowly.

If you have read any of the suggestions that I've made in the past, and followed along with anything that I've been currently in the works for, you can see why this is an issue. I work thoroughly, but not particularly quickly. Having to operate on my schedule and another's is highly inconvenient.

Back on topic.

What I WOULD do with crew:
-Have RP Haven completely revised and overhauled in a handful of days
-Follow closely with the other members of crew in all regards
-Work outside of my capacity as RP Haven Mod, when needed
-Continue to do all the things that I'm doing now, except more quickly and effectively.
-Develop new banners for the Guild
-Revise our sitemap (with help and feedback from the other crew members)
-Develop epic RP shells for future contracts and Guild events (In process)
-Be amazing

I'd do all that and much more. I am a hard worker, I put my heart, mind and soul into the work that I do for the RP community, and for this guild because I love it and want to see it grow, and I know I can prove it if given the chance.

Did I miss anything, Aiusagi? Is there anything I didn't mention that you would like to see me do?
Anything ANY of you would like to see me do, for that matter? (Outside of youtube fetish videos. SHAME!)

Ferregar


Ferregar

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:31 pm


K, while I also understand the viewpoint behind the feeling that extra crew members are unnecessary, in this capacity I have to disagree. I am serving as a forum moderator. I am responsible for the RP Haven, our largest RP Forum, its maintenance and giving players a reason to visit and frequent it. Do so without Crew status is highly difficult and extremely aggravating. I work in measured bursts, and having to go through another person kills my rhythm and requires me to wait on the content to be posted, which throws me off even more.

EDIT: Also, the store analogy is a little flawed. I'm doing this for free, working hard to help maintain the guild, and I think that, as none of us are paid or rewarded in any regard, working in crew allows me to actually manage the forum. My level of activity is greater than Gear's, which is not meant as a dig i nany way, simply stating that, given the amount of work I seek to do for the guild, it is inefficient for me to be waiting on either him, wielder, or any of the rest of you. I've got enough work for more than one person, content wise. I'd like that to not be slowed.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:10 pm


Aiusagi
-What you have done so far. Explain to me what your doing currently for the guild and why it is beneficial. Also other members are welcome to answer this question on your behalf.


Since the option was thrown out there I shall answer for myself. I have done nothing. I attempted a plan I had once. It didn't work. All I have done is be active, which is essentially does almost nothing. Now you may say, "Oh but you're one of very few active members in the guild!" That just means we have a lot of people not willing to do the most basic thing when you're part of some sort of group. Participate. If all I've done is participate, but none of the actual work in the group project, I shouldn't deserve the grade of A, just because there are others who are doing nothing.

K` the warrior
Thus, if we were to promote people merely based on how active they are or how willing they are to help, we would have to promote pretty much every single active member right now.


I must disagree with this. There are people that are active right now that I wouldn't even consider for a crew position. Myself included. Why? They haven't produced any results in helping the guild, due to one circumstance or another. I for one don't even have the creativity to think of a plan or idea that could help. Ferregar at least has an outline, which I couldn't even begin to form.

Strifer Garuwashi


K` the warrior

Omnipresent Krampus

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:16 pm


The store example was meant to illustrate that I don't necessarily see the need to be a Crew member in order to help around. As it is and as you stated, you've done so much for the guild already. And I'll say it again, your creativity is welcomed and encouraged! However, the only extra power bestowed upon you is:
-Moving topics.
-Locking/unlocking topics.
-Access to the Crew forum.
That's all. If there were more than that, then I would understand. And as it is, the Crew forum isn't as important as you might think because most of the guild's affairs are discussed with the rest of the guild. Case in point.
As frustrating as it might seem that you can't move forums or lock them, that shouldn't be a drawback. It's like taking out the trash; you toss the bag outside your door and the garbage man will eventually come to pick it up and dispose of it. The same could be done with the threads. I'll take Darius as an example again because I believe he was the one who did it. And maybe I did that a couple of times when I wasn't a Crew member. When you're done with a thread, post something at the end saying "Needs to be disposed" or "Needs to be moved". Most of us check the guild more than often and we can even check the topics with the latest activity via the My Guilds feature. So by checking said forums, we can easily dispose of them.

Now, the way I'm looking at this, it seems as if you're willing to do all this for the guild in a matter of weeks, if not days. So I'll try to reach a compromise. As stated before by Gear, we could try a temporary Crew position. So once you'd be done with all the things you want to do (As stated above), you'd be demoted back to member. And again, the reason for this is because there's just no more room. However, this wouldn't be my number one choice because I imagine you would continue contributing around the guild, more or less, so technically, there would be no reason to demote you and thus, we'd have yet ANOTHER crew member when we've just stated there's no more room.

I'll say it again. It's not like this is a plan to limit your creativity and force you to NOT help around the guild. Most of us Crew members do try our best to help around the guild. We try stuff and we discuss stuff and most of you guys know it. But I just don't see the need to promote you. And I don't see the need to demote others; not like you're suggesting it, I know. Granted, some Crew members are more active than the others but they still want to help. So would they have to be demoted just because they aren't as active as they used to be? No. So should an active member be promoted, even though we're at full Crew capacity, just because of his activity? Maybe, but if that's the case, we would need to promote everyone who's active, like Sagi said.

I hope you don't think this is a personal attack or an evil plot of some sort. But I just don't see the need. I'm not trying to victimize you or make myself look like the villain. I am just trying to be as honest as possible as you asked and this is what I think. I apologize if it seems a bit harsh to some.
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