Christians

[Amara Verdandi]

So am I a bad person for saying that 99.98% of Christians either make me laugh, or drive me insane. This is NOT about the small amount of respectful Christians out there. This IS about the hardcore, bible-thumping, must-convert-everyone Christians.

I was watching this video called "A Letter from Hell" on youtube, and I just laughed. It was so ridiculous, and over dramatic.

They also tend to act like trolls when presented with questions that use logic to question faith. Its always "You're going to Hell, God works in mysterious ways, and has a reason for the unexplainable. You'd know that if you weren't a devil-worshiper!"

Don't get me wrong, I have respect for other religions, I'm just open about my opinions on them. If a Christian showed me respect, I wouldn't say anything that may offend him, or her. If a Christian told me I was going to Hell, I'd tell them off.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

I do my best not to judge people by the titles they carry. It always seemed to me that if you wanted to replace a title like "Christian" with another group like "Black People" and you'd be shocked by how racist it would sound, it isn't a good thing to say at all.

I feel we are not taught about how attitudes that support the mistreatment of others are developed, but instead we are taught that specific actions or words are bad. Because of this, mistreatment continues- we're treating a symptom and not the cause.  

[Amara Verdandi]

I don't judge people by the title "Christian" only by how they act about it. Christian = follower of Christ. Its a broad term, and I don't make judgments on that alone. That's why I said that I was talking about a specific type of people who believe in Christ.

Besides, there is no correct way to say "black people" nowadays. I think the term "African American" is stupid. Not all dark skinned people are African or American. Besides, no one puts "American" after Italian, Irish, Scottish, British, or any other nationality, why do it to people of color? Its like when people say Asian to some up people who are East Asian. They include the whole country (including Russia, and India, and whatnot) when they're only referring to East Asian people.

Sorry, got off topic.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Amara Verdandi

I don't judge people by the title "Christian" only by how they act about it.

I feel this is not represented in your first post well, or at least, your first post may have represented other things as well.

My reasoning for this is that the very first line of your post said "So am I a bad person for saying that 99.98% of Christians either make me laugh, or drive me insane."

Amara Verdandi

Christian = follower of Christ. Its a broad term, and I don't make judgments on that alone. That's why I said that I was talking about a specific type of people who believe in Christ.

While you did go on to talk about a group of people who are characterized by a list of actions the first statement reflected a percentage of a population, without reference to those actions. I feel it is that kind of thought that underpins a greater problem.

Amara Verdandi

Besides, there is no correct way to say "black people" nowadays. I think the term "African American" is stupid.

I feel that the best way to refer to complexion is dependent on who is being discussed and using their term for their complexion.

Amara Verdandi

Besides, no one puts "American" after Italian, Irish, Scottish, British, or any other nationality, why do it to people of color?

I'm afraid this is not my experience. I know of a number of people who have Cultural Clubs based on their ancestry- amongst them Irish Americans and Italian Americans- at our International Festival, I can't walk three feet without seeing a booth with this phrasing ranging from Cambodian-heritage booths to the Norwegian booths (which are my favorite because they give some amazing cookies away for free) .  

[rmcdra]

Amara Verdandi

So am I a bad person for saying that 99.98% of Christians either make me laugh, or drive me insane. This is NOT about the small amount of respectful Christians out there. This IS about the hardcore, bible-thumping, must-convert-everyone Christians.

The group you are describing as "the hardcore, bible-thumping, must-convert-everyone Christians" are actually the minority when looking at the global scale, hell it's not even the norm on a US-nationwide scale. So yeah I'd say you're generalizing those who are part of a religion unjustly, especially when the name says nothing of what theology, Christological stance, soteriological stance, cosmology, etc they believe.

Quote:

I was watching this video called "A Letter from Hell" on youtube, and I just laughed. It was so ridiculous, and over dramatic.

*goes to see it* Well I personally find it funny because it uses a pop/perverted understanding of Hell and promotes a soteriology that is easily countered by Matthew 25:31-46 and James 2.

Quote:

They also tend to act like trolls when presented with questions that use logic to question faith. Its always "You're going to Hell, God works in mysterious ways, and has a reason for the unexplainable. You'd know that if you weren't a devil-worshiper!"

Yeah a good number of Protestants and sola fida Christians don't know about their religion. Hence why they they rely on crappy arguments. It's quite sad actually

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, I have respect for other religions, I'm just open about my opinions on them. If a Christian showed me respect, I wouldn't say anything that may offend him, or her. If a Christian told me I was going to Hell, I'd tell them off.

And? What if they are telling you about hell if they are genuinely concerned and they have respect for you? For those that don't believe in the "fire and brimstone" hell, they see hell as a permanent separation from YHVH which they believe to be the worst torture imaginable, since to be separated from YHVH in the Christian theology, is to be separated from agape.

Yeah the "your going to hell" thing gets annoying but once you understand what hell is, separation from YHVH, it's not a big deal. Some people honestly don't want to be with YHVH and there's nothing wrong with that.  

[Amara Verdandi]

From my experiences, I've seen more Christians trying to force their beliefs on you than ones that don't. I tried having a civilized discussion with a group on MSN awhile back, and was bombarded with bible verses, and kicked out. I've talked to people who've had Jehovah's Witnesses block them from closing the door when they say "I'm not interested." The assistant library from my high school used to get on me about looking up Paganism, calling it "dark arts" and what not. My principal told me school isn't a place for religion, yet there's a "Christianity" section in the library, separate from other books on religion, and mythology. My ex girlfriend was converted to Christianity due to a friend of her's, then started harassing me about converting too, even sending me religious videos about how "God was better than my real father" which plain pissed me off. My dad has given me more than their God ever could. It may be a generalization, but its a generalization from what I've experienced, and from what I gather from other people's experiences.

I understand some do it out of concern, but when I say "I don't wish to be a part of the Christian faith, and I'd appreciate you respecting my beliefs" and they still go on about it, that's what gets to me. I could do the same, but I don't.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Amara Verdandi

From my experiences, I've seen more Christians trying to force their beliefs on you than ones that don't.

With no offense intended, I have to wonder if this is an accurate observation.

Based on the information about the United States in the CIA factbook, three out of every four people in the United States is Christian. In practical terms, this means that if a non-Christian walked into a supermarket to buy a gallon of milk, three quarters of the people in the supermarket should be asking you if you are Christian and then trying to convert you.

It also means that in a democratic nation, three quarters of the United States population are more than enough to pass an Amendment to the Constitution taking away the rights of pagans, Jews, Muslims and others to worship or abstain from worship as they see fit.

Please understand this isn't intended to be sarcastic, but to show that instances of some Christians behaving badly does not demonstrate that this is the norm.

Amara Verdandi

I tried having a civilized discussion with a group on MSN awhile back, and was bombarded with bible verses, and kicked out.

Did you by chance save the conversation? I would be interested in seeing the discussion so we can see if their arguments were given valid weight.

Amara Verdandi

I've talked to people who've had Jehovah's Witnesses block them from closing the door when they say "I'm not interested."

I do hope they called the police. That is illegal under most property laws and perhaps even under forcible detainment statutes.

Having said that, the time I have spent with people seeking to convert me has been exceptionally pleasant. The Mormons do not come around as often, the Jehovah's Witnesses are very polite and the Baptists and I have had wonderful discussions about Church history.

In the past, when I have treated them with respect, they have been most kind and polite. I feel that they are often mistreated for doing something they feel is right. Are they going door to door "selling" their religion? Of course, because they feel it will help others. While I disagree with them, I also find that being hostile to people who are trying to be helpful is usually counter productive. In my discussion with others who are offended by their actions, the usual reason people give for being upset is because they dislike the "sales pitch" attitude. It has always seemed to be a contradiction to me because there are not the same feelings towards other forms of "advertising".

Amara Verdandi

The assistant library from my high school used to get on me about looking up Paganism, calling it "dark arts" and what not. My principal told me school isn't a place for religion, yet there's a "Christianity" section in the library, separate from other books on religion, and mythology.

Did you contact the ACLU? Infringement of religious rights by state sponsored education is the kind of thing they deal with.

Did you contact your Superintendent?

Amara Verdandi

My ex girlfriend was converted to Christianity due to a friend of her's, then started harassing me about converting too, even sending me religious videos about how "God was better than my real father" which plain pissed me off. My dad has given me more than their God ever could. It may be a generalization, but its a generalization from what I've experienced, and from what I gather from other people's experiences.

While I understand how the actions of others have hurt you, I'm not sure it is a good reason to make such a generalization. If I were to use that same justification, in my life I have had to file ten police reports, eight of which had solely Black suspects, six of which were caught, all six of which I was able to identify in photo arrays. If I apply the same reasoning to my generalizations, where would I be?

The world does not always reflect our personal experiences. I feel that when we allow ourselves to make generalizations about a group, it not only may not be accurate and thus foster dishonesty, but a recent study out of the University of Indiana suggests it actually allows us to make more generalizations about different kinds of people- fostering a psychological framework that perpetuates attitudes that allow us to stereotype others.

I also feel this turns us into hypocrites, since the fostering of stereotypes is what excuses many of the more militant groups to seek to degrade us for our beliefs.

Amara Verdandi

I understand some do it out of concern, but when I say "I don't wish to be a part of the Christian faith, and I'd appreciate you respecting my beliefs" and they still go on about it, that's what gets to me. I could do the same, but I don't.

I often wonder how much of this has to do with how it is said. While this doesn't excuse them disrespecting your wishes, it might help explain why our experiences are so different. I have never had an adult insist on harassing me about my faith after I politely turned them down.  

[rmcdra]

Amara Verdandi

From my experiences, I've seen more Christians trying to force their beliefs on you than ones that don't. I tried having a civilized discussion with a group on MSN awhile back, and was bombarded with bible verses, and kicked out. I've talked to people who've had Jehovah's Witnesses block them from closing the door when they say "I'm not interested." The assistant library from my high school used to get on me about looking up Paganism, calling it "dark arts" and what not. My principal told me school isn't a place for religion, yet there's a "Christianity" section in the library, separate from other books on religion, and mythology. My ex girlfriend was converted to Christianity due to a friend of her's, then started harassing me about converting too, even sending me religious videos about how "God was better than my real father" which plain pissed me off. My dad has given me more than their God ever could. It may be a generalization, but its a generalization from what I've experienced, and from what I gather from other people's experiences.

Sounds like you live in an area that is predominately Christian Fundamentalist. Have you been to any major cities? Major cities tend to be more secular/eclectic than what you are describing. That's not the norm of Christianity by any means.

Concerning "internet" Christians, John Gabriel's Greater Internet ******** Theory applies here like for most people online. Most people do stupid s**t when they have an audience and anonymity. Also you stepped in their MSN group, they make the rules in their chat room and they can keep or kick anyone out they want.

Concerning the thing about Jehovah Witnesses keeping someone from closing the door, there's laws against that along with just general harassment charges. All one would have to do is inform them that if they don't remove their foot and let the resident close the door, they are in every right to call the cops.

I don't know what to tell you about the video other than that in the Christian world view, YHVH is the creator of all things. While it's a theological truth in Christianity, it's a poor proselytizing technique, since it depends on someone believing that there is a creator or a singular higher power responsible for creation or at least initializing creation. I'm sorry that they hurt you in saying that YHVH was better than your Dad, but in their theology YHVH is better than everybody. That issue is not debatable unfortunately.

Quote:

I understand some do it out of concern, but when I say "I don't wish to be a part of the Christian faith, and I'd appreciate you respecting my beliefs" and they still go on about it, that's what gets to me. I could do the same, but I don't.

Well if they won't respect your beliefs, they've lost the right for you respect theirs, unless your Gods or personal moral code prohibit you from doing so, haven't they?

You can also tell them that if they continue talking to you, you will contact your local authorities concerning the harassment you are receiving. No one likes dealing with police so they should leave you alone. Should they test you on it, call the police and file a complaint. If the local authorities won't do anything then contact the DA. The DA is required to address any issues of local authorities not doing their job. If the DA won't do anything, I'm sure their is someone higher then him/her that will address it.

Or another possible solution is simply to not talk about religion and remain silent on it. It's not anyone's business what you believe. Tell them you refuse to respond and stick to your guns. If you don't "feed 'em" then the "trollz" go away.  

[rmcdra]

@Brass Bell Doll
Thank you excellent points btw. I didn't even consider those points, when I posted. *should have read the rest of the thread before posting* redface  

[Amara Verdandi]

Ya know. I tried to make a distinction, but clearly you guys don't see that. No, I don't have a conversation from a few years ago saved. No, I didn't contact anyone, I didn't know how to react, and my anxiety prevents me from taking action. I tried to talk to you guys about a specific group of Christians, but to hell with it since no one here can seem to figure out what the ******** I'm talking about. Again, another huge ******** failure on my part.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Please understand that my critique of your post is not a personal attack.

In opening a position with these words: "So am I a bad person for saying that 99.98% of Christians either make me laugh, or drive me insane" a tone was set, intentional or not. I do not feel you are a bad person for being upset by people. I do not blame you for your emotional reactions to certain positions, but I also do not feel hyperbole serves this kind of discussion as I feel it fosters stereotypes that are harmful and in citing the study out of the University of Indiana I tried to explain why I felt that attitude is harmful. Even if you do not sincerely believe that almost all, or even most Christians are annoying, I feel that having a casual attitude towards speaking ill of people based on the actions of some of those people is detrimental.

I feel it was hurtful to suggest that the minority of Christians are respectful, which I feel took place when you qualified your statement by saying "the small amount of respectful Christians" in contrasting them to the people you dislike.

Could you help me understand what you expected from me as a response? When you posted this, and then go on to say that it is a failure, what about it failed?

While I understand you were speaking about people who berate you with Bible Verses, I'm not seeing how this connects with the other statements that were made.  

[doistu]

Whilst I disagree that it's the minority of Christians who are good people, I do understand that living near and experiencing the effects of particular groups can have a really negative affect.

Like I went to a Roman Catholic school and had Catholicism all about me. Some of my teachers were pretty zealous and, to be perfectly honest I had a very blinkered education when it came to religion. My sister more so as she hopes to do Philosophy at university but has only, through this school, been exposed to Christian philosophy (which she now has little interest in).

Don't let certain groups cloud your judgement of the whole.
Just try to look at the bigger picture  

[mechanical kitsy]

Amara Verdandi

Ya know. I tried to make a distinction, but clearly you guys don't see that. No, I don't have a conversation from a few years ago saved. No, I didn't contact anyone, I didn't know how to react, and my anxiety prevents me from taking action. I tried to talk to you guys about a specific group of Christians, but to hell with it since no one here can seem to figure out what the ******** I'm talking about. Again, another huge ******** failure on my part.

Stop. Slow down.

Maybe THIS is part of your problem.
Too much attitude.
People were trying to help, show some gratitude.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

xXx kitsy xXx

Too much attitude.
People were trying to help, show some gratitude.

D00d, that totally rhymes. You's a rapper!  

[surukio]

Brass Bell Doll

Amara Verdandi

From my experiences, I've seen more Christians trying to force their beliefs on you than ones that don't.

With no offense intended, I have to wonder if this is an accurate observation.

Based on the information about the United States in the CIA factbook, three out of every four people in the United States is Christian. In practical terms, this means that if a non-Christian walked into a supermarket to buy a gallon of milk, three quarters of the people in the supermarket should be asking you if you are Christian and then trying to convert you.

It also means that in a democratic nation, three quarters of the United States population are more than enough to pass an Amendment to the Constitution taking away the rights of pagans, Jews, Muslims and others to worship or abstain from worship as they see fit.

Please understand this isn't intended to be sarcastic, but to show that instances of some Christians behaving badly does not demonstrate that this is the norm.


depends on the are in the US you are residing, i don't get that up here in Idy, but i had it all the time back south in NC, if you live in the "bible belt" it depends on if they are converting because they think it will earn them brownie points, or if the genuinely believe what they say, i've been told even though i was cosidered a christiant [pago-christian] an cause i practice celtic beliefs along side thing like witch craft, root work and voudou, tha ti'm going to hell even if i believe the ible [which is easily countered by the whole pointing out that certain word were wrongly translated to read "witch craft" when it called only 3 specific criteria, poisoning, necromancy and certain forms of divination ONLY, but most won't look into how improperly translated those areas of the bible are, just like it reads Elohim[which is a strictly feminine term for God, meaning mother or Goddess]