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 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:50 pm
Various religions have different form of Baptism that the members go through. However, the importance of Baptism is constantly up for debate. So my question is, does your religion / denomination require a baptism, rite of passage, rebirth ceremony, or etc? If so, how important is it to your religion? Does this requirement in any way relate to step 10 of the brainwashing method? (Final Confession and Rebirth) Some people see baptism as a form of rebirth, so it makes me wonder. http://health.howstuffworks.com/brainwashing1.htm
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:31 pm
Yes baptism is truly necessary. Christ said to John the Baptist before He was baptized "Suffer it to be done in order to fulfill all righteousness." So if Christ, who was sinless and blameless, had to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness, then what more reason do we, as sinners need? We need to be baptized. It was a commandment given by Christ. He said to Nicodemus "Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven." Christ also told His apostles to teach the gospel to all the people, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. And no I do not see this as a form of brainwashing just to get some one to believe in a religion. Every one has agency, which is the ability to choose for themselves. They can choose to believe what they want, when they want. This is how my religion views baptism
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:43 pm
Well, not really, since I don't have a religion.
I never understood Baptism and glad I never was baptized.
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:42 pm
My church doesn't view baptism as necessary, though it is a step a mature Christian should take. I was just baptized last week, partly because I've felt like the Lord's been asking me for the last few months. I think of it as taking my relationship with the Lord to the next level, and as being a sign that I'm really commited, though I'm still talking to my mom about the relevence of it.
It does hold a bit more significance to me then when I prayed to be born-again, because I was so little when that happened.
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:46 pm
Captain_Shinzo Well, not really, since I don't have a religion.
I never understood Baptism and glad I never was baptized. If you don't understand it, why are you glad it hasn't happened to you?
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:50 pm
We don't require it for you to come to church and participate in the events and such.
However, every one who leads a prayer, or leads a song, even in the middle school level, is required to be baptized. All of our leaders , from the janitor to the preacher to the board of elders are required to be baptized. We see baptism as absolutely required to be part of the body of Christ, and do not allow anyone outside of that body to hold authority in the church.
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:13 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo Well, not really, since I don't have a religion.
I never understood Baptism and glad I never was baptized. If you don't understand it, why are you glad it hasn't happened to you?
You see, it is the symbolism of being baptized. If I was, then they could say I was Christian on the inside and I would probably die alittle on the inside due to the more ever ignorance of where I live.
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:57 pm
I don't think it is so necessary. Many people don't even know what it stands for anymore, they just know the HAVE to do it to be a good Christian.
I think it is the message that is supposed to be realized by the ritual that is important. Rituals don't mean anything if they are so watered down by tradition that their meanings are taken for granted.
Also, if someone comes to the realization of what a ritual is supposed to symbolize without performing the ritual, then do you think that because they didn't go through the motions in the physical, they won't get the benefit of being transformed in the spiritual? Christians are told that it is what is in the heart that counts.
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:22 pm
The ritual of Baptism is one of initiation. When one is baptized they become one of YHVH's children and that is irreversible or so the catechism states. The ritual has multiple meanings to it. Two that I am aware of is the washing away of original sin and the death and resurrection of the self into a new life with Christ.
Seeing as that anything, in the proper context of course, can be used a sacrament to convey God's Grace to us and that God knows whats in our heart, ultimately I would have to say it's not necessary. While it may be known that the sacrament of Baptism seals us to YHVH, to say it has to be done is misleading since such a stance implies that God does not show mercy to those who are ignorant of the sacrament and why his Church believes it to be necessary.
Edit: Concerning brainwashing, it's mainly a myth popularized by cold war propaganda. Now I'm not going to deny that there are manipulation techniques that some religions and groups will use to gain new members. They basically exploit how we function and develop socially.
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:27 am
i am reading John Ciardi's fine translation of Dante's Il Paradisio
and was greatly pleased to see that he has a place in the highest heaven for the souls of baptized Christian children
but an equally high place for children who were unable to be baptized but who were deeply loved.
to me that is very touching, and respects the rites of his church while reflecting the benign character of God.
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:57 am
Of course baptism is necessary. Why would Christ be baptized, if we don't need to be? We are not perfect, but the the Perfect One was baptized.
I don't feel it's a brainwashing technique. If a mere singular physical act done once is an act of brainwashing for some individuals, then they must have no intelligence at all.
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:18 am
I was always taught that baptism is used to wash away any sin that we have gained from our mother/father. Its kind of like giving you a clean slate.
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:03 pm
Wow, you all have such different views. Some claim that Baptism is a requirement, others claim that what it symbolizes is a requirement. I'm more partial towards the latter. Shadows-shine "Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven." This line is pretty solid evidence when taken literally and in translation. I believe people can be born again of the spirit without a ritual, but born of the water... I wonder why that's so important. Does god want us to symbolically prove our faith? Is it possible that he was being symbolic? It sounds like he's talking baptism to me.
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:47 pm
caeruleus5765 Wow, you all have such different views. Some claim that Baptism is a requirement, others claim that what it symbolizes is a requirement. I'm more partial towards the latter. Shadows-shine "Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven." This line is pretty solid evidence when taken literally and in translation. I believe people can be born again of the spirit without a ritual, but born of the water... I wonder why that's so important. Does god want us to symbolically prove our faith? Is it possible that he was being symbolic? It sounds like he's talking baptism to me. In the verse I quoted He was referring to Baptism. While yes, some people may be able to have that "born again" experience with out any sort ritual, but since baptism symbolizes the washing away of one's filth or sin, then comes the baptism of the Spirit or fire which is the inner cleansing, thus, in my opinion bringing upon the "born again" experience.
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:42 pm
I really don't understand what I can say here.
Circumcision is 100% required on the Eighth day for all Jewish male babies with a clean bill of health.
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