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| Is Bella Swan a Mary Sue? |
| Yes |
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95% |
[ 23 ] |
| No |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 24 |
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 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:13 pm
Quote: A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".
"Mary Sues" can be either male or female, but male characters are often dubbed "Gary Stu", "Marty Stu", or similar names.[1] While the label "Mary Sue" itself originates from a parody of this type of character, most characters labeled "Mary Sues" by readers are not intended by authors as such.
While the term is generally limited to fan-created characters, and its most common usage today occurs within the fan fiction community or in reference to fan fiction, original characters in role-playing games or literary canon are also sometimes criticized as being "Mary Sues" or "canon Sues," if they dominate the spotlight or are too unrealistic or unlikely in other ways. One example of this is Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation.
So is Bella Swan, the main character of the Twilight series, a Mary Sue?
I certainly think so. But then, maybe its only the fact that she has fallen in love with a Gary Stu (the male equivalent of a Mary Sue) that makes her seem so.
To be perfectly fair the actions of Bella Swan are not even remotely Mary Sue like. Aside from the falling in love with a “vampire” part of course… She is a prime example of a normal American teenage girl, right down to her low self-esteem, her disdain towards her peers, and tendency to play the victim. Very average and uninteresting. In fact, the only thing interesting about her seems to be her choice in boyfriends. Ah! And there we have it! Bella Swan’s Mary Sue like qualities lay not within the character (or lack there of) herself but rather in the acts and reactions of the people around her and in response to Bella herself. Many of the boys, both human and inhuman, are immediately in love (or lust) with her and that makes all – or at least most - of the girls jealous of Bella even as many of them try to cozy up to her. While this is originally written off as being a result of the “New Girl” effect this theme is in fact carried out through the entire series with men and women constantly fighting over and for her. Quite odd for such a “normal” girl…
MARY SUE!
This is why I tend to dislike female authors. Especially, female authors who write about female characters. All too often do I see the heroine defined by her sexuality rather than the other way around. As if she is little more than a baby making, love machine. Does the author simply believe that if the heroine does not inspire lust in every male she encounters than she is not interesting enough to read about?
As a woman I find this trend most disappointing. Not that male authors are innocent of the crime mind you but sadly this is a habit found more often in female writers.
Your thoughts?
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:03 am
Bella is also in AP classes and lusted by more than the supernatural (ie, everyone), yet complains. She doesn't REALLY have self-esteem issues, she's just a b***h that likes to b***h about everything. OPlus, in Breaking Wind, she becomes the ultimate Mary-Sue.
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:01 am
I agree with you. I know whenever I post here I normally talk like a mom but I can't help that, its the way my brain is geared lol. ANYWAY I put bella on my list of "nevers" because like most storys not thought deeply into shes boring, bitchy, and a horrible role model. She is the main character of the film and is the love intrest so the zomboes that watch this crap go "Oh thats what ya gotta do to land a hottie!" and it pisses me off.
ANYWAY on your topic *coughcough* I only breezed the books so from what I picked up she is like rogar rabbits wife only ugly as hell and avarage to the extreme so I agree..
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:41 am
Personally I do believe that Bella Swan is infect a 'Mary Sue'. Primarily because she has so many qualities that are both ideal and contradicting.
She claims to be 'average' and 'untalented' yet it seems that by the time 'Breaking Dawn' ends she has had at least 6 different boys who are deeply in love with her and only one, Edward, was not instantly attracted to her.
Her only genuine flaw is mutilated and twisted to the point where it is not a flaw but just a plot device to make her appear 'cute' or 'helpless'. When a character lacks flaws they become unrealistic, and it makes it harder to believe that they are anything other than the Authors wish fulfilment.
Not only that but in spite of her claim that she is just an average looking and ordinary girl Bella posses a LOT of items that make her less than average. She is given a unique truck as a gift almost within the first chapter, her prom dress as I indicated in an older topic, it stylized in a way that NO other girl would EVER have the same dress, she reads 'unique' and 'stylish' sounding literate that an average 17 year old would never really read, (Withering Heights I believe).
I could go on and on but I think you get the point. Also another really baling hint of her Mary Sue qualities is the painfully long, detailed descriptor Meyer posted on her website describing Bella's appearance. She details at LOT of things that are not 'average', such as a heart shaped face, Chocolate brown eyes, etc...
The one way that I separate a Mary Sue from a regular character is how much detail is given to the readers within the first chapter. Bella's appearance (clothes, looks, etc) is mentioned over 3 times in only one chapter where as authors like Stephen King will often go chapters without telling you what the character looks like. The point of a character is to spread their appearance details through the entire story, allowing them to develop as their appearance is sketched out rather than placing a huge block of writing in the first chapter describing everything from the tone of their skin to their hairline (which Meyer is guilty of doing in her 'deleted' description of Bella. -_-)
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:43 am
I agree with what was said above, Bella is a Mary Sue and it is painfully obvious. She probably has this effect on readers (who haven´t switched their common sense off) because the author tries to make her seem ordinary and plain, but at the same time likeable in oder to make young girls want to be like her.
The author makes them feel that her protagonist is just like they are, insecure and ordinary, but still she is loved and idolized which is what many girls with a low self-esteem wish for. So ultimately the author just creates a dreamy and character which the readers can identify with and that makes them feel they could have whatever the protagonist has as long as they are like her. Bella is basically representing "perfect imperfection".
Yesterday I talked to a few (normal) fans of the series who told me that they realize the books are not very original or realistic, for them they´re just "a way to relax and dream". I believe it´s okay to read the series as long as you are critical and don´t make Twilight your new ideology without thinking, which unfortunately many obsessed fans do. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:07 pm
KingJack! Bella is also in AP classes and lusted by more than the supernatural (ie, everyone), yet complains. She doesn't REALLY have self-esteem issues, she's just a b***h that likes to b***h about everything. OPlus, in Breaking Wind, she becomes the ultimate Mary-Sue. Wish fulfillment: YESH. @DeepBlue: also YESH. Never read a book series simply because it relaxes you or makes you feel good. You have to look into it.
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:57 pm
twilight_is_for_idiots Personally I do believe that Bella Swan is infect a 'Mary Sue'. Primarily because she has so many qualities that are both ideal and contradicting. She claims to be 'average' and 'untalented' yet it seems that by the time 'Breaking Dawn' ends she has had at least 6 different boys who are deeply in love with her and only one, Edward, was not instantly attracted to her. Her only genuine flaw is mutilated and twisted to the point where it is not a flaw but just a plot device to make her appear 'cute' or 'helpless'. When a character lacks flaws they become unrealistic, and it makes it harder to believe that they are anything other than the Authors wish fulfilment. Not only that but in spite of her claim that she is just an average looking and ordinary girl Bella posses a LOT of items that make her less than average. She is given a unique truck as a gift almost within the first chapter, her prom dress as I indicated in an older topic, it stylized in a way that NO other girl would EVER have the same dress, she reads 'unique' and 'stylish' sounding literate that an average 17 year old would never really read, (Withering Heights I believe). I could go on and on but I think you get the point. Also another really baling hint of her Mary Sue qualities is the painfully long, detailed descriptor Meyer posted on her website describing Bella's appearance. She details at LOT of things that are not 'average', such as a heart shaped face, Chocolate brown eyes, etc... The one way that I separate a Mary Sue from a regular character is how much detail is given to the readers within the first chapter. Bella's appearance (clothes, looks, etc) is mentioned over 3 times in only one chapter where as authors like Stephen King will often go chapters without telling you what the character looks like. The point of a character is to spread their appearance details through the entire story, allowing them to develop as their appearance is sketched out rather than placing a huge block of writing in the first chapter describing everything from the tone of their skin to their hairline (which Meyer is guilty of doing in her 'deleted' description of Bella. -_-)
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:35 am
Gah I do that description thing at the beginning; it's not that they're self-inserts or anything, I just want people to know what the characters look like.
But yes she is a mary Sue, she got a 55 or so on the Mary Sue test, which is simply "kill it dead."
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:05 am
Demoness Crystallia Gah I do that description thing at the beginning; it's not that they're self-inserts or anything, I just want people to know what the characters look like. But yes she is a mary Sue, she got a 55 or so on the Mary Sue test, which is simply "kill it dead."
And I understand that some people prefer to do it all at once, but I still stand by my previous statement. Characters appearances should be secondary to their personality development.
Appearently Meyer disagress though. I honestly think this woman learned to write from Fanfiction.net. Not that there aren't some rather talented FF Writers out there, only that they are few and far between and that Meyer obviously hasn't found any of them.
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:38 pm
I just took the Mary-Sue test and Bella got 149.
She's a sue.
Your Mary Sue Score: 149
0-10 points: The Anti-Sue. Your character is the very antithesis of a Mary-Sue. Why are you even taking this test?
11-20 points: The Non-Sue. Your character is a well-developed, balanced person, and is almost certainly not a Mary Sue. Congratulations!
21-35 points: Borderline-Sue. Your character is cutting it close, and you may want to work on the details a bit, but you're well on your way to having a lovely original character. Good work.
36-55 points: Mary-Sue. Your character needs some work in order to be believable. But despair not; you should still be able to salvage her with a little effort. Don't give up.
56-70 points: Über-Sue. You've got one hell of a Mary-Sue on your hands here, and it's not going to be easy to set things right. But do your best. There may be hope for you yet.
71 points or more: Irredeemable-Sue. You're going to have to start over, my friend. I know you want to keep writing, but no. Just no.
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:02 pm
Quote: If you haven't heard of the Original Fiction: Mary-Sue Litmus Test you should go check it out. It's a lot of fun and very helpful. I still use it in my writings and sometimes I do it just for fun. Which is why I put the main characters, Bella Swan and Edward Cullan, from Stephenie Meyer's book Twilight through the test. I haven't read any of the books beyond Twilight because...It was the worse book I've ever read and didn't want to read any more by this woman ever again. Moving on, I have never seen anyone get higher than 55 points (with 71 points being the max) on this thing... Until now!
The Results:Bella Swan - 81 points ...yeah...That's 10 pionts over the Max on the chartsEdward Cullan - 98 points ...almost 100...The Charts:0-10 points: The Anti-Sue. Your character is the very antithesis of a Mary-Sue. Why are you even taking this test? 11-20 points: The Non-Sue. Your character is a well-developed, balanced person, and is almost certainly not a Mary Sue. Congratulations!
21-35 points: Borderline-Sue. Your character is cutting it close, and you may want to work on the details a bit, but you're well on your way to having a lovely original character. Good work. 36-55 points: Mary-Sue. Your character needs some work in order to be believable. But despair not; you should still be able to salvage her with a little effort. Don't give up. 56-70 points: Über-Sue. You've got one hell of a Mary-Sue on your hands here, and it's not going to be easy to set things right. But do your best. There may be hope for you yet.
71 points or more: Irredeemable-Sue. You're going to have to start over, my friend. I know you want to keep writing, but no. Just no.
I also skipped over any questions that are meant to be asked of the author themselves.
And STILL! The idea that any character (besides Enoby Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way ) could get this high of a score is just insane!
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:25 pm
Hmm...not all female authors are exactly like Stephanie Meyer. I have a friend whose an author--or, working to become one--and her characters are pretty damn decent and awesome. =)
She tested her characters and they all came out as decent ones (I was there).
But, without a doubt, Bella is a friggin' Mary-Sue to the EXTREME!! With all of the good authors out there, who would want to pick up a book that obviously deals apples? >_>
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:05 am
My vampire character got a 39 on that test...
Eh. I dunno...
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:52 am
^My Grim Reaper scored 11... smile
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:50 am
How many people do you know that are actually completely normal anyway? I think the idea of complete normalsy is unrealistic, no one is completely average/"normal"
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