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Garchomp - Proper Tier or False Statements? Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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Should Garchomp be Uber?
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Vixanz

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:39 pm


User Image
Note: I didn't know there was a discussion already done.

Ever since the Garchomp's tier was changed from OU to Uber around November/December 2008, today's metagame has never been the same.
For those of you who don't know, most of the information is from Smogon University, Serebii, Marriland and Google Images. xp

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. Garchomp?
The Mach Pokémon. When it folds up its body and extends its wings, it looks like a jet plane. It flies at sonic speed. It flies at speeds equal to a jet fighter plane. It never allows its prey to escape.
Weight: 6'03"
Weight: 209.4lbs
Evolution: Gible -> Gabite -> Garchomp
Type: Ground & Dragon
Base Stats: 108 HP / 130 Attack / 95 Defence / 80 Special Attack / 85 Special Defence / 102 Speed
Ability: Sand Veil - Evasion increases by 20% in a Sandstorm

For any of us who have been here while Garchomp was in its heydays we have experienced the large change in the teams and metagame since then. If you battled in serebii, you wouldn't go two battles in a row without seeing Garchomp. So what has made this land shark so popular? *cough*other than his awesome looks.*cough*



User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. Aside from Garchomp being immune and having resistance to rock and fire, its averagely high defences make it more bulky than Mewtwo and many other ubers. To illustrate Garchomp's bulkiness, for an UnSTABed Ice Beam to OHKO it, it would require a special attack stat of at least 269, which for many walls requires a hefty investment in Special Attack. (Thanks PokeCommunity for this sentence.) Best of all, its only weakness is to dragon, 2x, and Ice, 4x.

Its low special attack is not a problem for this pokemon, considering the later observed moveset. Garchomp is 14th place with the highest attack of all pokemon and 5th, tied with Ho-oh, with highest attack in uber. (14th place is tied with 10 other pokemon at 130Atk, including Scizor.)

And its speed? Having a base stat of 102, it gives it another upper hand above those pokemon with only 100 in base speed. (Ex. Salamence, Jirachi, Celebi, Ninetales, Charizard, Zapdos, Mew.) And a good chunk of evs put into speed and it can potentially be faster than some Infernapes.

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. Defence? Attack? Speed? Great stats, but useless unless it has the moves for it... And it does! It fact two of the most used moves, Outrage & Earthquake, not only does Garchomp have it but it also attacks its opponent with STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus). But hold on. Outrage was always available for Garchomp in D/P through egg moves but with the introduction of Platinum and tutor moves, Outrage became easier to obtain and Garchomp was made a supreme sweeper. Want another tutor move, then add Aqua Tail to the pile, a strong water attack that may be just what you need to support your team. Just imagine the power it would do from Life Orb or Choice Band. Perhaps this Platinum tutor move was the origin reason for its tier switch.

Don't have heart scales or the aptitude to breed? Quite alright! Garchomp still has more STAB dragon moves in which are of great use. Dragon Claw, a reliable move that has a good power of 80. Dragon rush, power of 100 and may cause flinching but fruitless due to its poor 75 accuracy. (Although it worked great for me.) And decided to go special Chomp? Go for the popular Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse. Did I miss something? Perhaps the fact that it can also learn Stone Edge, Fire Fang, Crunch, Substitude, Iron Head, Stealth Rock, Body Slam and Swords Dance so you can tag this on and have its evs place into another stat.

And that isn't the end of what made this significant pokemon even more dangerous. If you don't have a pokemon in your team with Sandstream, then teach your Garchomp Sandstorm at lv.13 and its evasion will increase by 20%. Luck on your side? I think so. If your land shark is still getting taken down, add on a Yache or Haban Berry to decrease the power of Ice or Dragon hits you take.

Oh, I'm sorry did I miss something? If so, feel free to remind me! heart
To summarize: Garchomp has total base of 600, a prodigious moveset for it and an opportunity to hax out your opponent! (So I don't get any complaints, hax = luck.)
Now that you have, or probably not, read all of that;;; Do you think it's fair that our blue monster was sent to the Uber Tier?
After all... Garchomp used to be number #1 in the list of most used pokemons.

Written By: Vixanz
(NOTE TO CREW: I have no idea where to put this so you can move it as you wish, just pm/comment as to where it will be. Thanks~)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:06 pm


I hate to break it to you, but we have already discussed this in full about 2 months ago. It was for this Guild's own edition of the Tier list, and we all ruled Garchomp as an Uber.

Also, no offense, but some of the points you're bringing up are irrelivant. Dragon Rush is nothing compared to Dragon Claw (in accuracy) and Outrage. Dragon Rage is pointless no matter what poke it is on, and Dragonbreath is too weak to concider. Dragon Pulse is the only SpAtk move that is good to use, but that isn't even in the realm of options since Garchomp doesn't have enough SpAtk for someone to concider it over a Physical attack.

All-in-all, you've covered the basics.

Luther Olathes


Kyrenx
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:33 am


Luther Olathes
Dragon Rage is pointless no matter what poke it is on, and Dragonbreath is too weak to concider. Dragon Pulse is the only SpAtk move that is good to use, but that isn't even in the realm of options since Garchomp doesn't have enough SpAtk for someone to concider it over a Physical attack.


I'm surprised Draco Meteor wasn't even mentioned since moves such as Dragonbreath and Dragon Rage were. In either case, here goes the link to the discussion thread we had concerning Garchomp.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:31 pm


Gah, big mistake on my part burning_eyes sweatdrop I knew you guys had already decided if it was or not, because obviously this guild has been started before I came in, but I just thought it be something cool to look at. Thanks for reminding me though~ heart

Vixanz


Gamefreak41495

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:42 pm


Also, as I notice the minor things, you said that Dragon Rage always does 90 HP damage, it's actually 40. Not to mention practically every point you made simply proves why it was put in Ubers to begin with.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:18 pm


i still believe garchomp isnt an uber i've used him many times before and he has proven powerful but he is very easily taken down i mean seriously salamence is stronger anyway less speed ofcoarse but that wouldnt matter with a scarf and even then a simple ice beam from almost any pkmn takes it down in a single shot. and to prove how weak he is compared to alot of others i challenge whoevers willing to battle me and ill use garchomp in that battle. ^^

shrab

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Ichigo Kurosaki711

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:21 pm


yes garchomp should be uber
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:32 pm


gamefreak41495
Also, as I notice the minor things, you said that Dragon Rage always does 90 HP damage, it's actually 40. Not to mention practically every point you made simply proves why it was put in Ubers to begin with.

thanks! & true I guess it is because i want it uber sweatdrop xp

Vixanz


Kyrenx
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:42 pm


shrab
i still believe garchomp isnt an uber i've used him many times before and he has proven powerful but he is very easily taken down i mean seriously salamence is stronger anyway less speed ofcoarse but that wouldnt matter with a scarf and even then a simple ice beam from almost any pkmn takes it down in a single shot. and to prove how weak he is compared to alot of others i challenge whoevers willing to battle me and ill use garchomp in that battle. ^^


YacheChomp is one of the most broken sets in the game. I believe it was decided that an Ice Punching Weavile was one of the only very few counters to it and last I checked, the whole reason why anything was ever put into the Uber tier list (or banned outright entirely) was when it threaten to over-centralize the metagame. If you must bring a counter for it specifically to every single fight, then the variety of teams would drastically drop; 'Chomp being banned was (and still is) the right course of action and trust me, your whimpy 'Chomp isn't much use in a debate verses someone who has a finely built one and knows how to use it. In either case, this debate has ended quite a bit ago and Garchomp's tier status isn't currently subject to being over-turned. However it's always good to reiterate the reasons why something is the way it is, instead of just following such things, as clauses and rules, blindly.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:48 pm


lol ill ahead and take ur chomp out without a weavile if i must i dn care wether its uber ur not though

shrab

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Vixanz

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:54 pm


Kyrenx
shrab
i still believe garchomp isnt an uber i've used him many times before and he has proven powerful but he is very easily taken down i mean seriously salamence is stronger anyway less speed ofcoarse but that wouldnt matter with a scarf and even then a simple ice beam from almost any pkmn takes it down in a single shot. and to prove how weak he is compared to alot of others i challenge whoevers willing to battle me and ill use garchomp in that battle. ^^


YacheChomp is one of the most broken sets in the game. I believe it was decided that an Ice Punching Weavile was one of the only very few counters to it and last I checked, the whole reason why anything was ever put into the Uber tier list (or banned outright entirely) was when it threaten to over-centralize the metagame. If you must bring a counter for it specifically to every single fight, then the variety of teams would drastically drop; 'Chomp being banned was (and still is) the right course of action and trust me, your whimpy 'Chomp isn't much use in a debate verses someone who has a finely built one and knows how to use it. In either case, this debate has ended quite a bit ago and Garchomp's tier status isn't currently subject to being over-turned. However it's always good to reiterate the reasons why something is the way it is, instead of just following such things, as clauses and rules, blindly.


I agree, and what you said about it threatening the metagame is proven by how much teams changed over the period of time when Garchomp was just banned. Of course, bringing it back to a modern team may be effective and a whole different deal.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:23 pm


o.-

-shuts up-

I did enough debating in our last Garchomp thread, I believe. 3nodding

KuraiKitty


Kyrenx
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:02 pm


KuraiKitty
o.-

-shuts up-

I did enough debating in our last Garchomp thread, I believe. 3nodding


I concur. xd
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:38 am


Yeah, with Garchomp gone there is more combinations now to work with, because now one doesn't have to worry about trying to have a team all sent on taking down Chomp.

As Kyrenx said this really isn't up for debate, we aren't thinking of putting Chomp in OU and we had this debate about a month or 2 ago.

Chaotic Houndoom
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Im Mr Turtle

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:41 pm


forgot move touter aqua tail.

i say he should stay OU uber should be reserved for pokes that are impossible to take down i mean garchomp is a easy 1HKO/2HKO frome a icetype unless your a sandstreamer like me where you cant hit it pirate
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