"I don't know any young person that's in torture."

[alteregoivy]

From another post with several links, I saw this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzG7l5P9wO8

The thing that struck me is that the Fox employee has no clue of the reality of the psychological warfare that is visited upon children. I can testify to how terrible it is.

I became Southern baptist at a fairly young age, and by my teens, it became an obsession that ruled every facet of my life. I was told over and over again, "You must save all the non-believers now, or you will miss your chance and your loved ones will burn in Hell."

I was well aware that my parents and my brother were not Christian. I had a Jewish friend. I wanted them to be saved so badly, I cried myself to sleep on a regular basis because I was so terrified of what would happen to them when they died. I felt like their blood was on my hands because I was unable to convince them to believe in Jesus.

What was worse, I fell in love with a Unitarian girl. Not only was this girl I loved going to Hell, but I also believed that Satan was tempting me and that I was falling for it and that I had failed God.

Telling a child over and over that just about every natural desire a person can have is wrong and dirty and that you have to ask for forgiveness for even thinking about it is, to put it succinctly, sick. That qualifies as emotional abuse in my book. So much of my youth was wasted feeling miserable because of it.  

[Semiremis]

I agree with you that the fox host did not even acknowledge the emotional trauma that kids may go through if they are be brought up scared and tormented at the idea of hell but then again the point he was trying to make wasn't over whether or not some religious families unwittingly emotionally abuse their children. It was about the blasphemy challenge and I have to say that I agreed more with the fox news channel host then with the man he was talking to. There's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Adding fuel to the fire, causing more anger and hostility towards a religion and its adherents is not the right way. Sending a message out to kids that it's okay to disrespect the sacred beliefs of others is not okay and that's the message that I was getting from the fox host, that's what he was touching on although yes it would have been better if he recognized the trauma that such abuse could cause and conversely Mr. Flemming could have acknowledged the pov of the other side as well.

Then again, something needs to be done but I'm all for solving problems without creating any new ones.  

[In Medias Res IV]

Hell should not be taught, at all. The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis. No where in the Bible will you find "Sinners go to Hell", it's an idea that Dante came up with, and Milton. Such a stupid teaching.

Fear G0d and you won't go to Hell!

How about love G-d and be a good person?

An atheist who is a good person is more righteous than a religious person who is a complete and utter a*****e.  

[alteregoivy]

Semiremis

I agree with you that the fox host did not even acknowledge the emotional trauma that kids may go through if they are be brought up scared and tormented at the idea of hell but then again the point he was trying to make wasn't over whether or not some religious families unwittingly emotionally abuse their children. It was about the blasphemy challenge and I have to say that I agreed more with the fox news channel host then with the man he was talking to. There's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Adding fuel to the fire, causing more anger and hostility towards a religion and its adherents is not the right way. Sending a message out to kids that it's okay to disrespect the sacred beliefs of others is not okay and that's the message that I was getting from the fox host, that's what he was touching on although yes it would have been better if he recognized the trauma that such abuse could cause and conversely Mr. Flemming could have acknowledged the pov of the other side as well.

Then again, something needs to be done but I'm all for solving problems without creating any new ones.

I agree it's best to try and discuss these things without creating new hostilities. Neither one was doing a very good job of seeing things from the other person's light... Though I have to say I side a little bit more with the Atheist, simply because the Fox guy hardly gave him any time to speak. He was a bit belligerent, in comparison, though that's just my opinion.

Still, how would you suggest we let kids really know what all their options are and still be respectful? You shouldn't have to be forced into whatever religion the majority of your family or town is.  

[Nebulance]

In Medias Res IV

The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Maybe you should actually-- *gasp* eek -- read the New Testament...




EDIT
Just in case anyone thinks I'm blowing hot air, here's just one example of a little scriptural basis for 'this place of eternal fiery damnation'-- straight from the mouth of Jesus:

Luk 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.


Luk 16:20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,


Luk 16:21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.


Luk 16:22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.


Luk 16:23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Luk 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'


Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.


Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'


Luk 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,


Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'


Luk 16:29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'


Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'


Luk 16:31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "  

[Imitation Stradivarius]

The people that were "abusing" you were absolutely right. The thing they forgot to tell you, though, is that God's Word does not return void. If you sow the seed, if you tell them the Good News, they have no excuse to make up their minds. If you have told them abuot Jesus, then their blood is on their own hands because after you told them, it was up to them to make the decision to follow Jesus.

I'm Southern Baptist, too. Yes, this denomination is insane and sometimes depraved in it's tactics to strive for converts, but the one thing you have to remember is that it's your only job to love Jesus, love the idiots around you, spread the Word of Jesus and to pray. That's it. It can be hard to love idiots, trust me, I know. I'm surrounded by them on a daily basis...  

[Semiremis]

In Medias Res IV

Hell should not be taught, at all. The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis. No where in the Bible will you find "Sinners go to Hell", it's an idea that Dante came up with, and Milton. Such a stupid teaching.

Fear G0d and you won't go to Hell!

How about love G-d and be a good person?

An atheist who is a good person is more righteous than a religious person who is a complete and utter a*****e.

I say Dante deserves a lot of the credit for the way hell is perceived by many, he did after all inspire many great artists with his vivid descriptions of it.

I have to agree with Nebulance on the existence of a hell where people suffer after life but to be honest its not something I've gotten deeply into. I'm all for loving God and trying to be a good person and that's what I try to concentrate on.  

[In Medias Res IV]

Nebulance

In Medias Res IV

The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Maybe you should actually-- *gasp* eek -- read the New Testament...




EDIT
Just in case anyone thinks I'm blowing hot air, here's just one example of a little scriptural basis for 'this place of eternal fiery damnation'-- straight from the mouth of Jesus:

Luk 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.


Luk 16:20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,


Luk 16:21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.


Luk 16:22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.


Luk 16:23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Luk 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'


Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.


Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'


Luk 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,


Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'


Luk 16:29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'


Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'


Luk 16:31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

Okily, now tell me, oh so righteous one, where does the Bible say "And those who sin will be cast into a fiery pit for all of eternity".

I've studied the New Testament, thank you very much, I'm also *gasp* a CLASSICIST and have not only the contextual but language knowledge behind me to make much more educated interpretations of such text.  

[xxEverBluexx]

In Medias Res IV

Nebulance

In Medias Res IV

The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Maybe you should actually-- *gasp* eek -- read the New Testament...




EDIT
Just in case anyone thinks I'm blowing hot air, here's just one example of a little scriptural basis for 'this place of eternal fiery damnation'-- straight from the mouth of Jesus:

Luk 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.


Luk 16:20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,


Luk 16:21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.


Luk 16:22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.


Luk 16:23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Luk 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'


Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.


Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'


Luk 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,


Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'


Luk 16:29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'


Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'


Luk 16:31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

Okily, now tell me, oh so righteous one, where does the Bible say "And those who sin will be cast into a fiery pit for all of eternity".

I've studied the New Testament, thank you very much, I'm also *gasp* a CLASSICIST and have not only the contextual but language knowledge behind me to make much more educated interpretations of such text.

Reve 20:14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matt 18:8 "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell.

That's only two verses. I found an entire site about it: http://www.lookup.org/hell.htm

And since you've studied it, would you mind letting me know what Gehenna means, if not Hell?  

[Nebulance]

Thanks, Blue. Those are another couple passages that I almost put up.

Absolutely no basis, In Medias Res IV?  

[LordTalisEraphen]

In Medias Res IV

Hell should not be taught, at all. The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis. No where in the Bible will you find "Sinners go to Hell", it's an idea that Dante came up with, and Milton. Such a stupid teaching.

Fear G0d and you won't go to Hell!

How about love G-d and be a good person?

I Agree with you 100% In Medias Res IV

Let's use simple logic , If Christ reward is eternal life then you cant have eternal torment because that's still eternal life ..


Yes i am christian but there's more to judgment than eternal torment
and i can explain why i believe what i believe. but i don't say this trying to start a fight if you are curious simply ask im not really into causing angry debates so don't expect one.  

[Nebulance]

LordTalisEraphen

In Medias Res IV

Hell should not be taught, at all. The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis. No where in the Bible will you find "Sinners go to Hell", it's an idea that Dante came up with, and Milton. Such a stupid teaching.

Fear G0d and you won't go to Hell!

How about love G-d and be a good person?

I Agree with you 100% In Medias Res IV

Let's use simple logic , If Christ reward is eternal life then you cant have eternal torment because that's still eternal life ..

Obviously... rolleyes  

[In Medias Res IV]

Nebulance

LordTalisEraphen

In Medias Res IV

Hell should not be taught, at all. The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis. No where in the Bible will you find "Sinners go to Hell", it's an idea that Dante came up with, and Milton. Such a stupid teaching.

Fear G0d and you won't go to Hell!

How about love G-d and be a good person?

I Agree with you 100% In Medias Res IV

Let's use simple logic , If Christ reward is eternal life then you cant have eternal torment because that's still eternal life ..

Obviously... rolleyes

For the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23.

I just ruined your whole argument with one verse.

If you sin, you die. Hell may exist but it is not for humans. Gehenna is a real place you can go visit.  

[xxEverBluexx]

LordTalisEraphen

In Medias Res IV

Hell should not be taught, at all. The only reason for Hell in Christianity is the fear tactic. This place of eternal fiery damnation has absolutely no scriptural basis. No where in the Bible will you find "Sinners go to Hell", it's an idea that Dante came up with, and Milton. Such a stupid teaching.

Fear G0d and you won't go to Hell!

How about love G-d and be a good person?

I Agree with you 100% In Medias Res IV

Let's use simple logic , If Christ reward is eternal life then you cant have eternal torment because that's still eternal life ..


Yes i am christian but there's more to judgment than eternal torment
and i can explain why i believe what i believe. but i don't say this trying to start a fight if you are curious simply ask im not really into causing angry debates so don't expect one.

A civil discussion about it would be nice. 3nodding Look, Heaven is amazing because life wellsprings from God. If people don't choose Him, then He has to let them go seperate from Him, which is essentialy death. It's not that He is condenming people to death, He's just giving them a choice. A good book about it is The Great Divorce by CS Lewis. It's a new way to think of Heaven and Hell (just don't take any of what CS says in that book as fact. He admits in the intro He doesn't know enough to claim that's how things will be in the afterlife.)

Death could be interpreted as seperation from God. Based on this new interpretion, you need a new argument. And where is Gehenna?