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a fancy name that popped up in my head "children of the prophecy"
anyways
what do you think of christian psychics? (people who have special abilities, they use their abilities through the permission of the Lord and they are sort of like demon hunters...they cast demons away in the name of the lord and through the trinity.)
i found a guild full of them in gaia. I think there are a lot of wiccans who converted...

have you heard of them before?
What do you think of them?

read this

youve got a point there...but you should read this
im just still confused...
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=4174229 according to them, they dont use their "abilities" unless god gives them permission( apparently God calls them), they pray and study the bible and they..talk to angels

so its a possibility demons are pretending to be God and angels who allow them to banish demons in the name of jesus?
they claim it to be a prophecy...

Well, far be it from me or any of us to say whether or not these people are truly Christians; but it does seem clear to me from the Bible that they are very misguided and doing something sinful. Christians can be deceived into thinking that something sinful is okay to do. A few places in the New Testament that deal with sinful behaviors emphasize: Do not be deceived about what is sinful. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 15:33, Galatians 6:7) That emphasis tells us that it is possible for a Christian to be deceived, so just because someone practices these things doesn't automatically mean they aren't truly a Christian. I just want to make that point clear before I go on to criticize anything. Whether or not a person is a true Christian is between them and God, and we really have to know someone before we can make a judgment with them about it.

But a person who calls themselves a "Christian psychic" and practices that behavior has allowed themselves to be deceived. When it comes to sinning, even if we sincerely believe that we are doing the right thing, that does not remove our responsibility. The Bible, as I quoted in my last post, is abundantly clear that these practices are sinful. They are either ignorant of those Biblical passages, which is their own fault for not reading; or else they deliberately ignore them, which is even worse and I would say is dangerous evidence that they may not truly be a Christian. The only other possibility is that, for whatever reason, they don't think those passages apply to them; and this also reflects ignorance, or to put it more politely, misunderstanding on their part, which they are responsible for.

Looking through that guild, I could not find anywhere an explanation of how they deal with the Biblical passages that condemn their practices. Has not a single person there read the Bible? If they make being psychic out to be such a part of their identity as Christians, why haven't they looked into what the Bible might say about it? If they have looked into it, why don't they address the issue upfront in their guild? Why sweep it under the rug? These are some serious questions to consider when looking at their testimonies of how they claim to serve God with their "psychic abilities."

Clearly, the basis for their belief on the issue is not the Bible, but their own experiences and emotions, and perhaps some "special" messages they're supposedly getting from some kind of spirits or extra sense. When a Christian gets the basis for their beliefs from a source other than the Bible, that's where it's easy to get deceived.


You do raise some important questions though. Is it true that they only use their abilities when God gives them permission? Does this justify it?

Well, there are two problems with someone saying that. For one, they don't have the abilities they claim to have. If they can truly perform the things they claim they can, then that power does not come from themselves. God doesn't give anyone superpowers. Take, for example, a person who claims to have the ability to see and interpret other peoples' dreams. That is a lie, no person can do that. Are there people in the Bible who God uses to explain the meaning of dreams? Yes there is, but do they have some special ability that allows them to do it? No, it is entirely God who does it for them. For example, Joseph tells the Pharaoh of Egypt the meaning of his dream in Genesis 41. I recommend reading that whole section of Genesis if you're interested in this subject, but the key verse for our purpose is here:

Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I have had a dream, and there is no one who can interpret it. I have heard it said of you that when you hear a dream you can interpret it.” Joseph answered Pharaoh, “It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh a favorable answer.” -Genesis 41:15-16

Pharaoh tells Joseph he's heard that he can interpret dreams. Joseph denies this, and corrects him that only God has the ability to do so. In the Bible, whenever God uses someone to do something miraculous, such as interpret a dream, or see the future, God makes it clear to them that the power comes from Him, not from their own ability. He doesn't give them the ability in themselves to do it, he only uses them as His instrument. And when someone else is amazed at what they can do and says, "You can see the future!" or "You can interpret dreams!" the person in the Bible says, "No, I cannot, it is not my ability, but only God's."

So for someone to claim to be a psychic and to have the ability to do anything special, goes against the Bible and sure makes it seem like they are not getting that ability from God. When God uses you for something special, he makes it clear that it is his power and not yours. Demons, on the other hand, will be more than happy to use you for something and make you think you did it on your own. And as I pointed out in my last post, there are examples in the Bible of successful fortune tellers and mediums, who were possessed or accompanied by demons.

So according to the Bible, their claim that they have abilities is false. If a person can do anything supernatural, it doesn't come from themselves, it comes from God or from demons; one or the other. So, which is it in this case?

Well, they say that they only use their abilities when God gives them permission. This makes it seem like they could use their abilities even if God didn't give them permission, and based on how they describe it, they certainly do believe that to be the case. This by itself shows that the power is from demons. Because if the power was from God, you couldn't use it when he didn't want you to, because it is his power; it's as simple as that.


The other issue is that God never uses us to do anything that is contradictory to his commandments in the Bible. We've already seen, from my last post, that God strongly condemns all psychic practice. So how could he then give permission for someone to do it? Will God ever give me permission to rape someone? Of course not, though there really has been people who have made claims like that. Since God clearly commands against all psychic practice, he won't ever give anyone permission to do it.

If they really are talking to spirits or angels, then any message they receive from them needs to be examined against what the Bible says. Demons can take on the appearance of angels (they are, after all, the same kind of creature; demons are only fallen angels), and they will deceive us if we do not know what the Bible says about the message they give us. This passage is significant here:

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. - 2nd Corinthians 11:13-15

If an angel visits you and gives you a message, if that message does not agree with the Bible, then there is no doubt that it was a demon in disguise. Because, again, God will never use us to do something against his commandments.


I also don't want to make it seem like these people necessarily can even do the things they claim they can. The Bible does show that some people can do some psychic-type things through demons, but the Bible also shows that a lot of the people who claim to do so are just lying about it. Look at Daniel chapter 2 to see how a nation's worth of people who claimed psychic abilities, when it came down to it, were really unable to do anything they claimed, even when their lives depended on it. (This chapter is also another example of a person in the Bible, in this case Daniel, making it clear that his knowledge of the king's thoughts and his interpretation of the dream came from God and are not possible for any human to do on their own. See verses 25-30. Daniel specifically says that nothing he reveals comes from any special ability of his own, which is in stark contrast to the claims made by many in that guild.)

For the people who aren't lying and honestly believe that they can do the things they claim, I hate to say it but there is such a thing as psychological disorders that can be very serious. I'm certainly not accusing any specific person in that guild of being a liar or delusional; I don't know them. But both of those are possibilities in general for a person who claims to be psychic. And one thing that is not a possibility is that God is using them or wants them to do such things.

I know this post has been ridiculously long, I do apologize. I just wanted to mention, as you said originally, that some of the people in that guild freely admit that they were involved in occult and wiccan practices; so it's really no wonder that they might be experiencing influence and deception from demons. There's a reason why God commands against the occult! You'll let things into your life that you really don't want getting involved with you; and it might be hard to get rid of them, especially if you don't recognize them for what they truly are.


To finish up, and specifically address the thread you linked to: The guild's leader, LadyBugLes, said a few things in her post that I wanted to challenge.

For one, she mentioned not talking to any leaders in her church about her psychic abilities: "I never told anybody at the church any of this. I figured out very quickly that my priest (Lord love him) was a huge muggle and that it would only confuse him and scare him if I tried to discuss it with him." This is a very unfortunate choice she has made. She assumes that the leaders in the church have nothing to offer her in terms of advice or understanding about what's going on in her life. For her minister, she says the topic would only confuse and scare him. Well, I'm not confused or scared by the topic, and I don't consider myself to be an amazing person by any stretch. From all the church leaders I know, I find it hard to believe that very many would be confused or scared by the issue. Perhaps her minister may not be the best person to talk to about it, okay, but she should have gone to someone else in her church or another church. The Bible makes clear that being a leader in the church is something that God calls and empowers a person to do (unlike psychic abilities), and God has put her leaders there to shepherd and guide her. The word used as "bishop" in the Bible means "to shepherd."

So, ironically, LadyBugLes is convinced that she is following a calling from God, but to do so she is rejecting the help of people that God has called to be her shepherd, simply assuming that they have no help to offer her, even though the Bible says God has empowered them to do so. And it is even more unfortunate that she is leading the people in her guild astray (many of them very young) into thinking that this is the best way handle things if you think you're psychic: If you think you're psychic, don't tell anyone about it, especially not your leaders in church. That's never good advice for anything a teenager could be dealing with, and isolation and division are definitely tools Satan uses to attack Christians. Take away the help that leaders in the church can offer, and a person will have to stand on their own; it makes for an easier target. And if they never go to leaders for help on it, they may never know what the Bible really has to say on what they're doing, and how to overcome it.


Another error she made, is when she said, "Well, I've asked God to take it if it were 'of the devil' and he rather stubbornly left it alone, so I assume he wants it there." This is completely false reasoning, and again, she is not basing her beliefs on the Bible. If my mind gets filled with lustful thoughts whenever I see beautiful girls in bikinis, that's a bad thing. What if I pray to God to remove that temptation, and the temptation never goes away; does that mean God wants those thoughts to be in my mind? Does that mean it's okay for me to follow through on them? Of course not. One of the reasons we are left in this world after becoming a Christian, rather than being swooped up to heaven immediately, is because God wants us to practice resisting sin and become more like Jesus. Just because God doesn't remove all evil influences and temptations in your life, doesn't mean that he wants them to be there and wants you to follow them. If Jesus had to struggle against sin and resist temptation, then so do we. Because in that struggle, we become more like Jesus. Just because God doesn't remove spirits talking to you, doesn't mean he wants you to do what they say.

Paul addresses this issue directly. Sometimes God answers "no" to our prayers, when we are asking for the wrong things or he has a higher purpose in mind.

A thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong. -2nd Corinthians 12:7-10

A messenger of Satan was harassing Paul. The Greek word there, translated as "messenger," is the same word for "angel," interestingly. And he asked God to take it away. It didn't go away. He asked again, still no; and again, still no. It sounds like a situation similar to some of those in that guild. But the answer Paul got from God, and the answer he gives us through this Bible passage, is that Paul and all of us don't need that "thorn in the flesh" to be taken away: God's grace is sufficient for us to live with it and move on in our lives. The struggle was a method that God was using to teach Paul to be humble, and to rely entirely on God and not on his own abilities, no matter how special those abilities may seem. This, I dare say, is a lesson some people in that guild need to learn. I dare say it's a lesson we all need to learn.

Why would any of them be screwed? If they're truly Christians then they have Jesus Christ, there's nothing more a Christian needs than him. They have eternal life and will one day be free from all sin and oppression. Such a person is far from being screwed. =)

Ignoring a demon and moving on is better than letting it influence you, isn't it? But that wasn't really my main point anyway. It was that just because she prayed for it to go away, and it didn't, doesn't mean God "wants it to be there." There are plenty examples of things we might pray for that God doesn't take away, such as any kind of temptation or oppression. He might take it away, but he might not, and just because he doesn't, is not a reason to give in to that temptation or to capitulate to the oppression.

The summary of my answer is that if there is some kind of spiritual influence or presence in your life, and it is guiding you to do things that the Bible strictly commands against, then you shouldn't listen to it, you should fight it. If prayer doesn't make it go away, that doesn't mean you should follow it. Keep fighting it and keep praying for God's help with it, and follow what the Bible says. We all have struggles that endure while we are alive, it's no different from one situation to another. Christians shouldn't engage in psychic activity since it is occult and the Bible condemns it; it is a sin. If anyone has that kind of behavior as a particular temptation for them, then the way to deal with it is the same as any other sin. So in that sense, yes, ignoring it and moving on with our lives is an important part of that, but also letting it teach us to depend more on the grace of God to overcome our difficulties. In our weakness we are made strong in Christ, as Paul explained in 2nd Corinthians.

I'm not trying to lay down the law for everyone else to follow; I'm not a source of authority over anyone. But for the Christian, the Bible is a source of authority, and I did my best to use the Bible several times in my last post to support each of my points. Anyone is perfectly welcome to disagree with me, but I hope that any Christian who disagrees can support their belief based on what the Bible teaches. I don't think that's possible to do in defense of psychic behavior, but I'd be happy to be in that discussion.