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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:35 pm
I know this happened awhile ago, but with the arrival of the Techno Mage on Gaia, there were a lot of people who spoke up saying that magic and steampunk do not mix. Maybe this comes from the fact that steampunk is based on giving advanced technology to a time that didn't have it, and in fiction technology and magic go together as well as throwing two wet cats in a bag.
Now, I am all for adding a little magic to my steampunk. In fact, being a steampunk wizard sounds like a grand idea. So, I wanted to put the idea out to you all. Do steampunk and magic go together in your opinion? If they do to you, what would be a good way of mixing steampunk and magic?
Makes me think about fighting Air Krakens in an airship. =D
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:00 pm
I fuse my armour with spirit companions, as a shaman and engineer warrior. Magic in steampunk settings work great to me, you just need to limit it to certain people and not wide spread.Techno-mages reminds me of mages who fuse tech with spells to reinforce their abilities, and to summon elemental allies such as steam, glass, electricity, and clockwork fetishes(The magic kind) and add werewolves, and vampires living amongst humans some out to destroy while others protect like most mages have to decide to be good, evil, or neutral.
I'm even writing a story thats steampunk with magic, it help engineer mages create automations. I include shamans, theurge, mages/wizards, vampires, hunters, and werewolves.
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:04 pm
I think there's an element of magic in everything, including right here, right now.
Honestly, I think it can be done, as long as it's not blatant or overdone. In other words, it's best ingested in small amounts.
And besides, doesn't most steampunk literature contain some elements of magic?
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:02 pm
Who spoke such ridiculous things? Steampunk is all about the removal of the mundane and logical. Not to mention, the last time I checked, we are allowed to do whatever we damn-heck-butt please with our imaginations as far as steampunk is concerned. Steampunk and magic is nothing like putting two wet cats into a bag. It more like putting chocolate into pancakes; it makes perfect sense and them delicious. Without magic, steampunk is boring. Send such fools my way, and I will give them a lesson in not being mediocre thinkers.
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:19 pm
While I don't think magic is necessary to Steampunk, I feel it can be used alongside it with no problem in the right doses. As one finds when combining anything of multiple genres, it's about finding a personal balance of Steampunk and magic. I prefer to keep my Steampunk characters mostly magic free, but I have no qualms about bending the rules for a werewolf, shape shifter, or tech-mage, provided it makes sense in context.
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:25 pm
I beg to differ. With magic, steampunk is boring (for me at least) - steampunk for me is all about the might of technology and the human mind, not whatever weird energies are floating around. Magic seems to make it too easy.
I prefer steampunk without magic. That's not to say I think steampunk with magic is a bad idea; indeed, it can be done magnificently. I just prefer it without.
Firstly, magic bugged me a little in that it has the habit of explaining itself. Why does it work? It just does. This ruins it a little for me; especially when it's just used as an excuse to get away with something crazy. I always preferred science-fiction. Whatever happened, it was always the result of rational activity. The laws of physics might be bent a little (as reality must be in fiction); but everything was explained perfectly rationally, and it made sense. And that made it better for me, because magnificent feats were always the result of science and human (or alien) endeavour, and I like that. The thing I really like about steampunk is the spirit of it; taking steam power and performing immense feats of engineering with it - like giant mechanical spiders, or flying cities. And its all an achievement because intelligence and technology is behind it all. All these wonders and made more prevalent by the technology behind it; that of steam power, creating engines which seem alive in their operation. Indeed, aether (or rather, odd chemicals and their effects) can be used to wondrous effect. Rampant progress of science! not magic!
I like the wonder of technology and science, not unexplained magic.
But to me, magic ruins it a little. Nothing is quite an achievement anymore. Suppose you create a device the size of the room which will create the most perfect cup of tea ever; only to find your friends conjuring one into existence (or moving things about the make it) - why bother with the machine? But that aside, surely the wonders of technology pale in comparison to the spontaneous effects of the magic, however simple they may be. Obviously, the more limitless the magic the more it affects things. My acceptable limit is parlour magic, feats of minor conjuration and illusion, or mayhaps communing with spirits. Shooting lasers from your hands is right out (take that, giant robot spider). Supernatural stuff (werewolves, vampires, spirits) can work very well. If the magic is explained in a rational manner, however, that makes things better.
Off the top of my head, I can't actually think of that many steampunk works with magic (at least that pulled it off well).
~
But as I said, I don't hate steampunk with magic. Such works can be truly splendid, and I enjoy them immensely all the same.
'tis all a matter of taste
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:03 am
Captain Amaranth I beg to differ. With magic, steampunk is boring (for me at least) - steampunk for me is all about the might of technology and the human mind, not whatever weird energies are floating around. Magic seems to make it too easy. I prefer steampunk without magic. That's not to say I think steampunk with magic is a bad idea; indeed, it can be done magnificently. I just prefer it without. Firstly, magic bugged me a little in that it has the habit of explaining itself. Why does it work? It just does. This ruins it a little for me; especially when it's just used as an excuse to get away with something crazy. I always preferred science-fiction. Whatever happened, it was always the result of rational activity. The laws of physics might be bent a little (as reality must be in fiction); but everything was explained perfectly rationally, and it made sense. And that made it better for me, because magnificent feats were always the result of science and human (or alien) endeavour, and I like that. The thing I really like about steampunk is the spirit of it; taking steam power and performing immense feats of engineering with it - like giant mechanical spiders, or flying cities. And its all an achievement because intelligence and technology is behind it all. All these wonders and made more prevalent by the technology behind it; that of steam power, creating engines which seem alive in their operation. Indeed, aether (or rather, odd chemicals and their effects) can be used to wondrous effect. Rampant progress of science! not magic! I like the wonder of technology and science, not unexplained magic. But to me, magic ruins it a little. Nothing is quite an achievement anymore. Suppose you create a device the size of the room which will create the most perfect cup of tea ever; only to find your friends conjuring one into existence (or moving things about the make it) - why bother with the machine? But that aside, surely the wonders of technology pale in comparison to the spontaneous effects of the magic, however simple they may be. Obviously, the more limitless the magic the more it affects things. My acceptable limit is parlour magic, feats of minor conjuration and illusion, or mayhaps communing with spirits. Shooting lasers from your hands is right out (take that, giant robot spider). Supernatural stuff (werewolves, vampires, spirits) can work very well. If the magic is explained in a rational manner, however, that makes things better. Off the top of my head, I can't actually think of that many steampunk works with magic (at least that pulled it off well).~ But as I said, I don't hate steampunk with magic. Such works can be truly splendid, and I enjoy them immensely all the same. 'tis all a matter of taste. Iron Kingdoms and Arcanum, whilst not works of literature, have magic in them, and Arcanum goes even further with the magic and tech gist of it.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:17 am
Duly noted; although I can think of many, many more steampunk works which don't contain magic.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:26 am
Sidnay Who spoke such ridiculous things? Steampunk is all about the removal of the mundane and logical. Not to mention, the last time I checked, we are allowed to do whatever we damn-heck-butt please with our imaginations as far as steampunk is concerned. Steampunk and magic is nothing like putting two wet cats into a bag. It more like putting chocolate into pancakes; it makes perfect sense and them delicious. Without magic, steampunk is boring. Send such fools my way, and I will give them a lesson in not being mediocre thinkers. What?!?I must surely disagree here, Steampunk is most definately not about the removal of logic. Steampunk is all about the Science! The rampant, rampant progress of Science, and what it could acheive in fantastic proportions. And magic has always been something of an anethema to science, being what is unexplained versus the explained. Yes, you can mix them in the same setting as a Steampunk fantasy, or a fantasy setting with Steampunk bits thrown in, such as the gnomes in WoW and Arcanum, but those are predominately about the fantasy, and in fantasy most anything goes. But Steampunk on its own requires nothing of magic, only science. Damn-heck-butt imaginative science, I'll grant you; that is what it is about; but we need no magic. In a way, magic would render it all worthless. With magic, why would anyone bother to toil for years making a giant robot when a wizard or whoever could remove it from existance in an instant (provided he is powerful enough of course)? But to say its boring without magic. What? Have you ever read any of Verne's, Shelley's and Wells' books? Are they boring? I think not. Were they boring this genre we call Srteampunk would never have existed, surely. And I can think of many great Steampunk endeavors that have not a hint of magic, such as Steamboy, Wild Wild West, Pax Brittania, Mortal Engines, Henry Hatsowrth and so forth, films, books and games. Soem freakish and aberrant science I shall admit, but no magic, and they are not boring in the least. You may prefer yourself to dabble in the Steampunk fantasy end of the spectrum that is Steampunk, but I myself am a purist. But, having said that and voiced my opinion, I can accept your own as your own, even if I may diagree fervently with it. But please, in future, do not go referring to our camp as mediocre thinkers, or else you shall surely become very much of a mediocre person yourself, closeted in your views.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:30 am
Captain Amaranth Duly noted; although I can think of many, many more steampunk works which don't contain magic. Not only counter-examples, but also Iron Kingdoms and Arcanum are both steampunk/fantasy games. And games have always been liberal with genres, liking to sprawl across many at a time at their leisure. I like the settings though i must say, but as fantasy ones with Steampunk aspects in them. Another though: If, instead of referring to steampunk wirh magical elements as steampunk fantasy as I do, but instead to take it as the default of Steampunk, how then would we refer to Steampunk without magic? It seems to me that in the classification of things into genres, we generally start off with nothing and keep adding, so we must start by addind Steampunk first and then the fantasy.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:03 am
I'm currently reading the book "Titus Crow" by Brian Lumley. While not steampunk it is a Lovecraftian inspired work. There are a lot of interesting concepts I've picked up from the story like that Narlythotep is actually a personification of the ability to telepathically communicate and that Azathoth is actually atomic sciences and radiation. I'm very fond of the "magic" is really alien sciences that the logical mind has trouble comprehending.
The big problem with combining magic and steampunk is you have a fine line to walk either it's a little magic so the steampunk aspect isn't overwhelmed ("Whitechapel Gods" by S.M. Peters) or you're just working with fantasy with a steam tech flavor (Final Fantasy)
The movie Mutant Chronicles (horrible dialog) was blatantly steampunk sci-fi (pay close attention the hover vehicles and space ships are all coal powered).
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:17 am
Akonite I'm currently reading the book "Titus Crow" by Brian Lumley. While not steampunk it is a Lovecraftian inspired work. There are a lot of interesting concepts I've picked up from the story like that Narlythotep is actually a personification of the ability to telepathically communicate and that Azathoth is actually atomic sciences and radiation. I'm very fond of the "magic" is really alien sciences that the logical mind has trouble comprehending. The big problem with combining magic and steampunk is you have a fine line to walk either it's a little magic so the steampunk aspect isn't overwhelmed ("Whitechapel Gods" by S.M. Peters) or you're just working with fantasy with a steam tech flavor (Final Fantasy) The movie Mutant Chronicles (horrible dialog) was blatantly steampunk sci-fi (pay close attention the hover vehicles and space ships are all coal powered). Hah, I like the sound of that! Yet another book on my 'to buy' list. I quite like such explanations of the weird and supernatural. You speak wisdom there. One sees quite a lot of fantasy-with-steampunk-thrown-in nowadays; it's a nice thing to throw in. A little magic in steampunk can work. I must check out that film then, I was put off by the bad reviews, but it may be worth it for steam-space-ships alone.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:28 am
Captain Amaranth Akonite I'm currently reading the book "Titus Crow" by Brian Lumley. While not steampunk it is a Lovecraftian inspired work. There are a lot of interesting concepts I've picked up from the story like that Narlythotep is actually a personification of the ability to telepathically communicate and that Azathoth is actually atomic sciences and radiation. I'm very fond of the "magic" is really alien sciences that the logical mind has trouble comprehending. The big problem with combining magic and steampunk is you have a fine line to walk either it's a little magic so the steampunk aspect isn't overwhelmed ("Whitechapel Gods" by S.M. Peters) or you're just working with fantasy with a steam tech flavor (Final Fantasy) The movie Mutant Chronicles (horrible dialog) was blatantly steampunk sci-fi (pay close attention the hover vehicles and space ships are all coal powered). Hah, I like the sound of that! Yet another book on my 'to buy' list. I quite like such explanations of the weird and supernatural. You speak wisdom there. One sees quite a lot of fantasy-with-steampunk-thrown-in nowadays; it's a nice thing to throw in. A little magic in steampunk can work. I must check out that film then, I was put off by the bad reviews, but it may be worth it for steam-space-ships alone. Well it DOES go on my bad movie list because it has dialog that should be enjoyed with something alcoholic and addlibbing to make a Rocky Horror live cast proud but I've never been one to refuse to watch something based on other's opinions (I will however wait for it to cost $5 or less just to be safe)
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:34 am
Captain Amaranth Sidnay Captain Amaranth Sidnay Who spoke such ridiculous things? Steampunk is all about the removal of the mundane and logical. Not to mention, the last time I checked, we are allowed to do whatever we damn-heck-butt please with our imaginations as far as steampunk is concerned. Steampunk and magic is nothing like putting two wet cats into a bag. It more like putting chocolate into pancakes; it makes perfect sense and them delicious. Without magic, steampunk is boring. Send such fools my way, and I will give them a lesson in not being mediocre thinkers. Pardon me if I say 'poppycock'. Yes, you can do whatever you like in fiction, but that isn't to say you must. That aside, I personally disagree that steampunk without magic is boring. But that, sir, is my opinion - and doesn't make me a mediocre thinker, nor a fool at all. Such a notion is folly. [Also, I prefer syrup with my pancakes] Tangent.I am very scared right now. Even before I signed onto Gaia, I thought. "I wonder if anyone will have protested my earlier post. I wonder if I'll have a PM stating an objection. Wouldn't it be funny if that were Captain Amaranth."And sure enough. There was a PM. From you... You can not believe me about that if you want, but your disbelieve won't salve my freakedoutitude... Back on topicAlso, I did not wish to state that Steampunk without physical 'Hokus-Pokus' magic was boring, rather I meant magic in the metaphorical sense, and literal. I agree, take, for example, Jules Vernes '20 000 Leagues Under the Sea'. Captain Nemo is not a Wizard, but that being said, there is magic in the application of Science and Imagination. That is what steampunk is about. I was protesting people who felt that Magic and Steampunk had absolutely nothing to do with each other because they saw no connection between the two. Maybe I should have made the clearer, but as it was I was late for a Vorlesung... Yay for clarification!
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