This is a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway thread

[Ashley the Bee]

On another board I'm a member of, they have this thread where people can go to ask questions that they know are kind of stupid, but still want the answer to because -- well, not all answers are easily found in books, and some things are just difficult to find unless one knows where and how to look.

So, with that in mind, I'd like to bring this thread here for random "stupid" questions people may have, in hopes that others can answer if they're so inclined.

To get it started, I have my own stupid question ^^v

Most of us have heard that using the title "druid" is culture rape. I can understand how that would be if it was to imply or directly state that there are ties to the scholarly class of individuals who have gone extinct.

What I don't understand is why the word, or a variation such as "neo-druid", when used to apply to something completely different, such as a neo-pagan religion, is such.

Or, at least, is any more culture rape than saying "I'm a druid -- currently spec'ed boomkin." ^_^;;;  

[saint dreya]

using the term in anyway denotes a continuity of some sort, or an evolution of the role, that, indeed, did not occur. the role died out, was replaced and outlawed in some areas.

it's also assuming the roles and responsibilities that those prior were trained to do. additionally, it slaps all the training that did occur in the face, as it is saying that the training was unnecessary and effectively insulting the time and effort that was put in to it all those centuries ago.

at least, that's what i've taken from that. your mileage might vary.

*good idea for a thread*  

[TeaDidikai]

Part of the culture rape is the sense of entitlement and the intellectual dishonesty.

The title belongs to the Celts. They're the ones who get to determine within their traditions who uses it in the same way that if you told a Japanese person that just because you believe Shinto is a valid religion, you get to take over the Priest/ess role in a Family-run Temple, you'd be told to ******** off.

It's a defilement.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

You can do the kind of stuff that OBOD and ADF do without calling yourself a druid. Or any of the other things most modern people think of when they hear the word "druid" that don't actually have anything to do with actual druids. Just get a new word, that one doesn't belong to you. Using the word does "imply or directly state that there are ties to the scholarly class of individuals who have gone extinct." And saying "but I don't understand why we can't use the word and say it means something completely different, it's just a word" is part of that entitlement. If it's "just a word," make your own word to describe what it is you do that doesn't rely on the inaccurate cultural currency of a word that isn't yours. If you have to say "I'm a neo-druid but that doesn't have anything to do with the old druids because they don't exist anymore and it's not my culture" in order to even attempt the semblance of intellectual honesty, waste less breath and just get a new word and avoid the whole issue.

Using "you" I don't specifically mean you, Ashley the Bee, because I don't know you or whether you do these things, just in general.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

I'm going to ask my own stupid question because I don't feel like devoting a whole thread to it.

What the frell is a god-spouse? And what is it for?

I've seen the term like six times on Raven Kaldera's websites. Google is NOT helping me. As far as I can tell it involves ritual possession so a mortal can marry the possessing deity? Is this a modern thing or have people always done this? Or is this a modern substitute for drowning/exposing/exsanguinating some girl (or boy) to serve as a consort for a god?  

[Ashley the Bee]

TheDisreputableDog

...snip...
And saying "but I don't understand why we can't use the word and say it means something completely different, it's just a word" is part of that entitlement. If it's "just a word," make your own word to describe what it is you do that doesn't rely on the inaccurate cultural currency of a word that isn't yours. If you have to say "I'm a neo-druid but that doesn't have anything to do with the old druids because they don't exist anymore and it's not my culture" in order to even attempt the semblance of intellectual honesty, waste less breath and just get a new word and avoid the whole issue.

But I guess the problem is, I really don't understand. ^^;

Back in the Renaissance, a painter might have to lay on his back for hours at a time, on scaffolding to create a picture. Today, I could call myself an artist if I sit at a desk and create pictures on a computer. There's a vast difference in the title between then and now.

It's not a great analogy, but I'm mostly just trying to explain why I'm confused.

I'm actually not even sure what the origin of "druid" is, given the definitions on the Intertubes are all fluffy... This may also be a key component to my misunderstanding?

That is, to me it's just an English word that describes something that doesn't exist any longer, and so the computer scientist in me says, why not reuse it for something new?

TheDisreputableDog

Using "you" I don't specifically mean you, Ashley the Bee, because I don't know you or whether you do these things, just in general.

=) I only use the term, personally, when I'm talking about D&D or WoW, but still get confused.

I just replied to your post since it was most recent ^^;

(Sorry ._. I feel like such a pain in the bum)  

[Fiddlers Green]

Seconded on the God-spouse thing, unless it is like nuns being "brides of Christ". I have heard that some priesthoods require matrimony to one's divinity, but I'm pretty fuzzy on how that goes as well. sweatdrop

On an aside, what is a good term to substitute for the pop-culture Dr00d?
Shaman is taken, and the closest I can get is Animist, unless we want to get insulting, then we can just go with the middle ages slang of Dirt-Worshiper, but that seems vile. confused  

[CuAnnan]

As Tea's mentioned, a great deal of it boils down to intellectual dishonesty.
It is intellectually dishonest to refer to yourself as a druid, as your life-path or religion or whatever-new-age-term-it-is-an-ADF-or-OBOD-member-uses. You are pretending to a title that belongs to a closed culture and by pretending the title, you are pretending membership of the culture.

Let's take a look at some of the qualities of the Draoí as they were in Celtic society pre 4th Century. Before being elligible for membership, you were expected to be able to reproduce (from hearing once) any song on any instrument.
You were expected to know the entire contents of the Annals and be able to recite any section from any given line to any given line verbatim.
You were expected to be an expert mound builder.
You were expected to be able to remove any Geas, save those placed by the Gods.
You were expected to be able to recite, given the clan name and given name of a child, their lineage all the way back to the root of their family.
You were expected to obey and abide by hospitality laws.

Show me a "druid" that abides by any more than three of those and I'll eat my hat. That list is by no means complete. There were other prerequisites.

Further to this, there is a matter that I seldom mention on ED M&R. It's the racism of using the term. It's akin to the noble savages mentality that is projected onto all of the Native American/American Indian/First Nation (delete as appropriate) peoples. It's condescending, patronising and it's incredibly irritating. These people, who for the most part, haven't done an ounce of scholastic research into who and what the Draoí were are pretending to a title they don't even begin to understand and are presenting it to the world as what the word means. They are damaging my heritage by doing so.

As to the root of the word, Etymonline.com claims

Quote:

1509, from O.Fr. druide, from L. Druidae (pl.), from Gaulish Druides, from O.Celt. *derwijes, representing O.Celt. derwos "true" and *dru- "tree" (especially oak) + *wid- "to know" (cf. vision). Hence, lit., perhaps, "they who know the oak." O.E., too, had the same word for "tree" and "truth" (treow). The Eng. form comes via L., not immediately from Celtic. The O.Ir. form was drui (dat. and acc. druid; pl. druad); Mod.Ir. and Gael. draoi, gen. druadh "magician, sorcerer." Not to be confused with United Ancient Order of Druids, secret benefit society founded in London 1781.

Finally, we come to the matter of RPGs.
They're games.
It's no more intellectually dishonest to claim to be a druid in D&D, WoD or any other high fantasy system than it is to claim to be a wizard, rogue or paladin. You, the person, are not proffessing that this is a valid representation of the title, you are engaging in fantastic escapism.

Apples and oranges really.  

[TeaDidikai]

TheDisreputableDog

I'm going to ask my own stupid question because I don't feel like devoting a whole thread to it.

What the frell is a god-spouse? And what is it for?

I've seen the term like six times on Raven Kaldera's websites. Google is NOT helping me. As far as I can tell it involves ritual possession so a mortal can marry the possessing deity? Is this a modern thing or have people always done this? Or is this a modern substitute for drowning/exposing/exsanguinating some girl (or boy) to serve as a consort for a god?

It's a variation of Hierogamy- and as such has it's basis in older traditions.

One that comes to mind was the defilement of one of the Vestal Virgins by the sacred marriage to the god El by a rather infamous Roman Emperor. heart  

[Taliah]

I'll venture a question.

I've lurked in many a thread where Ms. Tea has stated that in Wicca, the God flogged the Goddess in order to make her love him. I've wondered these two things mostly:

Why does she flee?
Why does he pursue?

I've tried to reason it to something like a wild animal might do, like, a bear. Male bear chases female, male dominates female, female submits and he has his way with female bear. Though, I may be treading on an Oathbound subject, and if I am, well then no worries I guess.  

[TeaDidikai]

Taliah

I'll venture a question.

I've lurked in many a thread where Ms. Tea has stated that in Wicca, the God flogged the Goddess in order to make her love him. I've wondered these two things mostly:

Why does she flee?
Why does he pursue?

I've tried to reason it to something like a wild animal might do, like, a bear. Male bear chases female, male dominates female, female submits and he has his way with female bear. Though, I may be treading on an Oathbound subject, and if I am, well then no worries I guess.

I think that part of it would be cleared up if you read the Decent of the Goddess.  

[patch99329]

My stupid question time!! Yay!
One that I've tried to reseach in the past and not got what I wanted.

The spiral goddess...what the hell is it? Where did the idea come from?
Is it wiccan in nature?

I see those little statues everywhere xD

--
As for the issue of alternative names for druids. Something refering to neopagan earth based spirituality.
I wish especially ADF would use a different title. They have a whole, coherent system! It's even less like ancient druidry than other groups. They should have a title of their own, because they have succeeded in making a unique, structured tradition.

The whole use of the title makes my eyes twitch. I feel dirty when I rent books out of the library, and listen to OBOD podcasts etc etc and the title is used willy-nilly.
Altghough, I know a whole lot of OBOD folks don't use the term to describe themselves.
Sometimes this feeling is HUGELY outweighed by utter shite about majikal starsign enurrgies at stone henge etc.  

[Taliah]

Thank you. ^_^  

[Ashley the Bee]

CuAnnan

Further to this, there is a matter that I seldom mention on ED M&R. It's the racism of using the term. It's akin to the noble savages mentality that is projected onto all of the Native American/American Indian/First Nation (delete as appropriate) peoples. It's condescending, patronising and it's incredibly irritating. These people, who for the most part, haven't done an ounce of scholastic research into who and what the Draoí were are pretending to a title they don't even begin to understand and are presenting it to the world as what the word means. They are damaging my heritage by doing so.

Hm, I can see that.

CuAnnan

As to the root of the word, Etymonline.com claims

Thank you! I completely forgot about that website ._.

CuAnnan

Finally, we come to the matter of RPGs.
They're games.
It's no more intellectually dishonest to claim to be a druid in D&D, WoD or any other high fantasy system than it is to claim to be a wizard, rogue or paladin. You, the person, are not proffessing that this is a valid representation of the title, you are engaging in fantastic escapism.

Apples and oranges really.

I see.

Well! Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to help with my stupid question ^^; I really do appreciate it. 3nodding  

[TeaDidikai]

patch99329

My stupid question time!! Yay!
One that I've tried to reseach in the past and not got what I wanted.

The spiral goddess...what the hell is it? Where did the idea come from?
Is it wiccan in nature?

I see those little statues everywhere xD

It stems from a combination of the spiral dance and soft-polytheism that prompted the creation of a generic divine goddess figure.