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 Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:43 pm
Hello all, well I've been working on this picture for awhile now, it went from stick, to rough, to sort of finished. I was wondering if anyone could give me some constructive criticism. My main goal is to get away from the Eastern Style (Manga, Anime, Etc.) and start to get to the Western Style. I know I need a crap load of work, but I would like it if people could point out flaws and how I can fix them please! Please tell me what you think. And please I don't want you to say, "Oh it looks awesome don't change it!", "Ya dont change it." Please. I'm here for feedback. I'm still learning the ways of fold and creases on clothing(i.e. look at the sleeves) So bear with me there. Now this picture isn't completely finished(the shirt also has stripes, I haven't added them yet). I want to add another guy to it and I also want to color it. So if anyone could please give me a tutorial on COLORing, western like art. I'd really appreciate it! Thanks a lot. Also I still don't know what to do with the other guy, any ideas (Main idea is that they're lovers)? I don't want him to just stand by him, I'd like to get away from the standing pose and add emotion. For now the guy is stale I will change it later. Anyone also know a good tutorial for hands on hips? At first it was hands on hips, now (just for now) I placed them behind his back. Here is the picture: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/gth/UntitledSkecth.jpg(Ok sorry, but quality just went down. Guess photobucket couldn't handle it.)
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:24 am
Western style cartooning seems to be more realistic then that of Eastern styles in general.
At least it does when referring Anime style to the cartoon styles of Marvel and DC comics.
BE WARNED, THE BELOW CRITIQUE IS HARSH
That is all.
Now some critique starting at the head. The face looks very thin, and around its lower portion seems like it should be a little bit thicker.
Ears are typically very round. They would not have such a large bend at the place you created a bend.
The eyes are a teensy little bit large to me, plus it shouldn't be going off the edge, at least not at that angle. They should end before the edge, ending in a rounded shape at the far end there.
The connection between the guy's neck and the front of his face is all wonky. The neck in the front should actually not connect to that area, it connects farther back on the skull. So in your image the neck should be generally straighter all the way through.
The nose is too upfolded for a grown male, It should not curve up very much at all.
The lower lip is also a little bit large.
The little section in the upper left center area of the hair doesn't seem to belong with the rest of the hair style you drew.
One shoulder seems relaxed, the other is tense, you should make them both one way or another. Since you are drawing the guy with his hand on his hip, I suggest you make the guy's right should relaxed and as such more rounded like his left shoulder.
In his left arm, the lower arm is not proportional to its upper portion, you should make it thicker.
The folds in your shirt should be few, and large, since this shirt is not very tight. In general the tighter the fabric, the smaller the crease sizes. Also because of the shirt being very loose It should have creases from gravity pulling the shirt downward. Currently all of your creases are small and awkward, you get rid of them. Go to Deviantart and search for clothing fold tutorials. They should really help you. :3
I hope this wasn't too much, and if you need any clarification just ask. :3
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:11 pm
Got sat you WERE a b***h.
Anyway gthb, what I saw was that I hate that little bit where you made the left line of the neck go out before hitting the jaw. It shouldn't do that and it looks weird.
I also hate that you didn't draw the lips in enough and I think the jaw angle should be less severe. Lower the jawline that we can see a bit I think. I love it's hair. Like a lot. Except for the crown. The crown should be WHERE THE CROWN IS and not two inches above the forehead. Just drag and drop it or something.
The folds on the left sleeve are very very bad. More and bigger folds would be nicer.
The right arm bothers me. Either the upper arm needs to be longer or something. I think that. And the angle doesn't work. The line of the lower arm on the left is okay, but the one on the right doesn't follow it. The arm bends in too much. For the hand to be on the hip area, the elbow needs to be out more. At the angle the upper arm and elbow are now, the hand should be near his waist, not touching his side.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:39 pm
Satius Western style cartooning seems to be more realistic then that of Eastern styles in general.
At least it does when referring Anime style to the cartoon styles of Marvel and DC comics.
BE WARNED, THE BELOW CRITIQUE IS HARSH
That is all.
Now some critique starting at the head. The face looks very thin, and around its lower portion seems like it should be a little bit thicker.
Ears are typically very round. They would not have such a large bend at the place you created a bend.
The eyes are a teensy little bit large to me, plus it shouldn't be going off the edge, at least not at that angle. They should end before the edge, ending in a rounded shape at the far end there.
The connection between the guy's neck and the front of his face is all wonky. The neck in the front should actually not connect to that area, it connects farther back on the skull. So in your image the neck should be generally straighter all the way through.
The nose is too upfolded for a grown male, It should not curve up very much at all.
The lower lip is also a little bit large.
The little section in the upper left center area of the hair doesn't seem to belong with the rest of the hair style you drew.
One shoulder seems relaxed, the other is tense, you should make them both one way or another. Since you are drawing the guy with his hand on his hip, I suggest you make the guy's right should relaxed and as such more rounded like his left shoulder.
In his left arm, the lower arm is not proportional to its upper portion, you should make it thicker.
The folds in your shirt should be few, and large, since this shirt is not very tight. In general the tighter the fabric, the smaller the crease sizes. Also because of the shirt being very loose It should have creases from gravity pulling the shirt downward. Currently all of your creases are small and awkward, you get rid of them. Go to Deviantart and search for clothing fold tutorials. They should really help you. :3I hope this wasn't too much, and if you need any clarification just ask. :3
Okay 1. Please don't make your text small. I felt horrid enough reading them, going into quote mode made me feel worse. xD 2. I guess I should of noted MY mistakes first, just so you all know. Xp. Oh well. Anyway I'll start off with the stuff I CAN explain why they are that. The creases. Oh I know they are supposed to be much longer, I only did that because I was using my real life body's clothes for reference and I noticed how the sleeves have BIG creases depending on angles. Well I made them small because of the torso's creases, I didn't want to go all out on the sleeves and nothing with the torso, so the creases are just BASICALLY guide lines. But I do need to look up creases on Deviantart, the only crease tutorials I found were of the collar. Also the ear, ya I wasn't really paying attention because I knew most of the hair was going to cover the ear and I KNOW the ear looks awkward trust me. xD Okay I want to say thank you guys so much!!!! This is what I needed! I seriously needed to be critiqued HARSH. You guys helped me so much. Now I redid the image, well not really. I just marked the fixes in a different color. I would like to get your opinion on that please, if it's not so much trouble. Like it is better, worse, in the middle? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/gth/UntitledSkecthRedo.jpgThe arrow pointing to the jaw. I know that the line wasn't supposed to be there unless one is clenching their jaw, other than that all I do is shade in the jaw line. Once again thanks again so much! Oh ya Pixie I don't know what you mean by the crown. I think you're talking about the hair where I started it, if so then I fixed it. I also need to fix the back of the hair, for it's too big now. Glad you like the hair. xD I love doing hair.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:09 pm
I feel bad doing this since I'm a crappy artist myself, but I'll do it anyway.
Note, I'm going on your revised one without bothering to look at whatever anyone else posted.
(and I probably won't say much and ramble)
---
You adjusted the arm but its STILL not proportional. Its itty bitty. Check yourself. Your elbow is JUST about at your hip (if you're anything like me and you're standing right). Yours is a tad short.
The original ears were a bit oversized and now they're not too bad.
Hand on the hip sort of looks like its going at the wrong angle but there are a few different ways to put your hands on your hips that I'd have to draw them to give an example.
Your new folds and wrinkle lines on the sleeves sort of frighten me. They look more like randomly placed curves than folds.
You may want to emphasize the collar bones since it looks like its just a circle there at the neck. Your shirt actually folds and goes over them, so they should be there.
The left arm (his right arm) looks like a straight line with minimal variation. At the elbow or so, the arm kinda points or jolts out where there are bones. He doesn't have to be the hulk but people HAVE muscles, skinny or not.
The left area of the shirt could use work since it looks like its just a sheet hanging there flat without anything under it.
I like your face shape and nose.
Best way to look at how to put hands on hips is to look at pictures or take pictures of yourself doing the pose and going from there.
Or just look at REAL people or photos to learn. I stare at things all the time. Try getting a sketchpad and going to the mall and try to draw people walking by.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:26 pm
Thanks Hirun. I'll make those changes soon.
I think the reason why the elbow is like that (for now) is because that's like SERIOUSLY the edge of the page, so I'll have to stretch it out more. The folds on the sleeves, they're similar to how one stands with a loose shirt with hands on elbow (try it). I've looked in the mirror many times, what makes it look weird is the angle it's at. I curved it so you can't see under them when actually you can (and I did once again go overboard xD).
The hands, well that's just a place holder. Hands, when placed on hips are actually (fingers that is) are faced (just a tad) up and then they crunch down.
As for the left side (his right side) you're right, the arm has to be fixed but I need to look more at pictures, also the shirt, eh I'm still debating, since I'm more comfortable with women, I don't have the male's torso down when it comes to shirts. So I still need to work on that.
Once again! Thanks! I'll make those changes after.....I get some food.
And don't feel bad people!!! I NEED these critiques! Seriously, I do! Look how bad I'm doing. xD
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:04 pm
you need a longer arm and LESS of an angle at the elbow, gthb. So it'd take up LESS space length wise.
other than that, hirun's right. The left side of the shirt is icky and needs to be worked on. Male bodies have shape. Give the shirt shape.
also the lip looks like he got punched.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:21 pm
I can show you how I do it but my scanner is on the fritz. D:
Some sites do things called "red lines" where you review the art and adjust it with red lines showing how you could have done things.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:22 pm
Pixie, that line isn't the lip. It's just a mark for adjustment.
Do you know any of those sites Hirun? And if your scanner does get fixed, would you be kind enough to show me please? I'd really appreciate it.
I think I know what you guys mean with the elbow so I'll fix it right now and I'll see. So before I do. You want LESS of angle? Turning that picture up right it could look like an 90 degree angle, so you want something less than 90? Just making sure. Xp.
Thanks again!
I'm afraid to post this in the art discussion forum, so I'll wait.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:34 pm
I'm sorry. Dx
I'll keep that in mind for the future. ;D
You're doing fine.
I think that the face looks very good now. :3
It seems like Hirun has all the things commented on right now.
Also you can actually get your picture red lined in the Picture Post here on Gaia.
Picture Post
You should probably post that in the title, however I'm not too familiar with the area, so you may want to read the stickies there super quick.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:53 pm
GtHb Pixie, that line isn't the lip. It's just a mark for adjustment.
Do you know any of those sites Hirun? And if your scanner does get fixed, would you be kind enough to show me please? I'd really appreciate it.
I think I know what you guys mean with the elbow so I'll fix it right now and I'll see. So before I do. You want LESS of angle? Turning that picture up right it could look like an 90 degree angle, so you want something less than 90? Just making sure. Xp.
Thanks again!
I'm afraid to post this in the art discussion forum, so I'll wait. by less of an angle I meant less severe, not a lower degree. Like less of there being an angle existing? So more obtuse.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:39 pm
Pixie Saylor GtHb Pixie, that line isn't the lip. It's just a mark for adjustment.
Do you know any of those sites Hirun? And if your scanner does get fixed, would you be kind enough to show me please? I'd really appreciate it.
I think I know what you guys mean with the elbow so I'll fix it right now and I'll see. So before I do. You want LESS of angle? Turning that picture up right it could look like an 90 degree angle, so you want something less than 90? Just making sure. Xp.
Thanks again!
I'm afraid to post this in the art discussion forum, so I'll wait. by less of an angle I meant less severe, not a lower degree. Like less of there being an angle existing? So more obtuse. Oh I get it, thanks. ^.^ Thanks Sat, I didn't know we had a forum like that. 0.o
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:14 pm
I've nothing to say but what has been noted already. sweatdrop
But I think that, even if you're not going for a realistic style, some reference could always help. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:32 pm
love you, this was totaly a rush job to kill time before i get ready for my formal tonight, so its not perfect xD That and I suck at drawing men :3. But I hope it helps alittle bit, K?
My red/pinkishred lines: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a103/Dragonfly808181/Gaia/gthbhelp.jpg
Ok, im alittle ahead of scedual, so i will offer more face help.
There is one eye's langth from the center of your eye to the ear.
From the brige of your nose to the tip, there is one eye's langth. Your nose is also the same with as the widest point of your eye.
Your lips are also as long and as wide as your eye.
There is one eye langth from the bottom of your nose to the tip of your chin.
There is one eye langth (Or two eye withs :3) from your eyebrows to your widdows peak.
your ears are one eye langth.
Ugh there is more, I can't rember them all xD; The rest of your boddy is tippicaly messhured in heads.
I can't rember any of thouse mesherments though xD;;; -ish hunt down and SHOT my my elementry school art teacher-
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:07 pm
A Dragonflys Sin Ugh there is more, I can't rember them all xD; The rest of your boddy is tippicaly messhured in heads.
I can't rember any of thouse mesherments though xD;;; -ish hunt down and SHOT my my elementry school art teacher-
Your foot is the same size as your forearm. The distance from one shoulder to another is two heads (vertically measuring it).
...I can't remember the rest either.
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