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 Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:22 am
Befor I start, please pardon any spelling error's I may have.
Way back in grade school i had a friend on my street who was very close to me. I was christain and he was catholic, and at the time i did not know the difference between the two. But even then, we would have some of the most fulfilling religious conversations i'v ever had with a person. but then he moved away and we drifted apart. As the years passed, i learned more and more about my religion, and about catholics, and became very worried about him. But yesterday he just poped up at my house and asked if i wanted to hang oout with him. I was very happy to see him again, and was waiting for the point which i knew would come up as it always did and i could tell him what i learned. But then he susprises me and tell's me he's wiccan, which i never saw comming. I keow enough about it so that i could converse with him about it, and we had our debate, but i found it impossible to get through to him at all because his definitions for things such as demons are now different from that of the bible's. So when one of his friend's spirit guides (which happens to be a demon they say) posses's them, they dont think it's a bad thing. It's like his internal dictonary has a different deffinition for every word having to do with the bible and religion now. So how can I explane things to him and have him understand?
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:01 pm
i' sorry... i have no idea what to do. i'll pray for you.
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:12 pm
Being a wiccan's not a bad thing. Just because their religion is seemingly a "pagan" one does not make it evil, and it does not mean that that person that has converted to this religion needs any form of "help".
The Wiccan religion has many of the same moral values of Christianity. If you hurt someone, it is immoral and you will face the consequences. It is not a "devil worship" religion in ANY way, and indeed, it promotes goodness of heart and morals, although its means for doing so may be different than those of Christianity.
Saying someone needs help because they are not Christian anymore is a form of stereotyping and discrimination. Good Christians should be accepting of everyone regardless of their choice for religious belief - unless, of course, it is harmful to themselves or others. (Wiccanism is not.)
So, if I were you, I would stop worrying and be supportive of your friend. Most likely they are just experimenting and/or going through a phase that they will eventually grow out of. If you can't be supportive, then at least don't SHOW that you're unsupportive, as it may hurt your friend's self-esteem and feelings, and harm your relationship.
(In case you were wondering, I'm not Wiccan. I'm just making a point.)
By the way: If he's getting possessed by spirit guides/demons, they AREN'T the kind of 'demons' as defined in the bible. Most likely it is a farce anyways, so why should you worry? Besides, YOU CAN NEVER WIN IN A RELIGIOUS DEBATE. People hate being argued with about their personal beliefs and the point you try to make will NEVER get through.
My advice - wait until his phase blows over, it most likely will eventually.
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:36 pm
Isoude Being a wiccan's not a bad thing. Just because their religion is seemingly a "pagan" one does not make it evil, and it does not mean that that person that has converted to this religion needs any form of "help".
The Wiccan religion has many of the same moral values of Christianity. If you hurt someone, it is immoral and you will face the consequences. It is not a "devil worship" religion in ANY way, and indeed, it promotes goodness of heart and morals, although its means for doing so may be different than those of Christianity.
Saying someone needs help because they are not Christian anymore is a form of stereotyping and discrimination. Good Christians should be accepting of everyone regardless of their choice for religious belief - unless, of course, it is harmful to themselves or others. (Wiccanism is not.)
So, if I were you, I would stop worrying and be supportive of your friend. Most likely they are just experimenting and/or going through a phase that they will eventually grow out of. If you can't be supportive, then at least don't SHOW that you're unsupportive, as it may hurt your friend's self-esteem and feelings, and harm your relationship.
(In case you were wondering, I'm not Wiccan. I'm just making a point.)
By the way: If he's getting possessed by spirit guides/demons, they AREN'T the kind of 'demons' as defined in the bible. Most likely it is a farce anyways, so why should you worry? Besides, YOU CAN NEVER WIN IN A RELIGIOUS DEBATE. People hate being argued with about their personal beliefs and the point you try to make will NEVER get through.
My advice - wait until his phase blows over, it most likely will eventually. Well. I certainly can relate. A good friend of mine in middle school became wiccan later in his life, but we were still pretty good friends. The problem I see is that those who chooses to believe in something other than christianity really hasn't experienced Jesus in their life, or has fallen and refuses to return. As is the case with my friend. His mother was raised southern(fundamentalist) Baptist and had a lot of "religion" beat into her, which is often a flaw in many Catholic churches as well. Her children seeing this, decided that Christianity is opressive and false. So... most of them followed the wiccan religion for the reasons given above. The best you can do is, as Isoude suggested, wait before you do anything rash and think it through. When you have a good time to talk to him just tell him more about the relationship with Christ instead of the "religion". Make sure he knows just what he is missing by walking away from Christ.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:26 pm
Isoude Being a wiccan's not a bad thing. Just because their religion is seemingly a "pagan" one does not make it evil, and it does not mean that that person that has converted to this religion needs any form of "help".
The Wiccan religion has many of the same moral values of Christianity. If you hurt someone, it is immoral and you will face the consequences. It is not a "devil worship" religion in ANY way, and indeed, it promotes goodness of heart and morals, although its means for doing so may be different than those of Christianity.
Saying someone needs help because they are not Christian anymore is a form of stereotyping and discrimination. Good Christians should be accepting of everyone regardless of their choice for religious belief - unless, of course, it is harmful to themselves or others. (Wiccanism is not.)
So, if I were you, I would stop worrying and be supportive of your friend. Most likely they are just experimenting and/or going through a phase that they will eventually grow out of. If you can't be supportive, then at least don't SHOW that you're unsupportive, as it may hurt your friend's self-esteem and feelings, and harm your relationship.
(In case you were wondering, I'm not Wiccan. I'm just making a point.)
By the way: If he's getting possessed by spirit guides/demons, they AREN'T the kind of 'demons' as defined in the bible. Most likely it is a farce anyways, so why should you worry? Besides, YOU CAN NEVER WIN IN A RELIGIOUS DEBATE. People hate being argued with about their personal beliefs and the point you try to make will NEVER get through.
My advice - wait until his phase blows over, it most likely will eventually. I can't agree with most of that. Wiccanism is a cult just like any other cult. Even though they believe in right living and being good and moral that doesn't lmean it's correct. If he has turned away from Christ, All Hell has broken loose. Literally. Anything that doesn't releate to the bible or the teachings of Christ is wrong. But I do agree you can't argue with them. Pray for them that is the best thing your can do. Also If this is one of your best friends I would back away from this relationship. Don't surround yourself with people with can hurt your faith. Do lose the friendship but Dont use them as a sourse of influence. If you have any questions about my view point feel free to send me a message, I would love to debate but I dont have the time
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:43 pm
Angel of Caring Isoude Being a wiccan's not a bad thing. Just because their religion is seemingly a "pagan" one does not make it evil, and it does not mean that that person that has converted to this religion needs any form of "help".
The Wiccan religion has many of the same moral values of Christianity. If you hurt someone, it is immoral and you will face the consequences. It is not a "devil worship" religion in ANY way, and indeed, it promotes goodness of heart and morals, although its means for doing so may be different than those of Christianity.
Saying someone needs help because they are not Christian anymore is a form of stereotyping and discrimination. Good Christians should be accepting of everyone regardless of their choice for religious belief - unless, of course, it is harmful to themselves or others. (Wiccanism is not.)
So, if I were you, I would stop worrying and be supportive of your friend. Most likely they are just experimenting and/or going through a phase that they will eventually grow out of. If you can't be supportive, then at least don't SHOW that you're unsupportive, as it may hurt your friend's self-esteem and feelings, and harm your relationship.
(In case you were wondering, I'm not Wiccan. I'm just making a point.)
By the way: If he's getting possessed by spirit guides/demons, they AREN'T the kind of 'demons' as defined in the bible. Most likely it is a farce anyways, so why should you worry? Besides, YOU CAN NEVER WIN IN A RELIGIOUS DEBATE. People hate being argued with about their personal beliefs and the point you try to make will NEVER get through.
My advice - wait until his phase blows over, it most likely will eventually. I can't agree with most of that. Wiccanism is a cult just like any other cult. Even though they believe in right living and being good and moral that doesn't lmean it's correct. If he has turned away from Christ, All Hell has broken loose. Literally. Anything that doesn't releate to the bible or the teachings of Christ is wrong. But I do agree you can't argue with them. Pray for them that is the best thing your can do. Also If this is one of your best friends I would back away from this relationship. Don't surround yourself with people with can hurt your faith. Do lose the friendship but Dont use them as a sourse of influence. If you have any questions about my view point feel free to send me a message, I would love to debate but I dont have the time well, i can't/wont stop being friends with this person, because i would feel like i'm turning my back on him, even if i shouldent feel like that. but i dont have to worry about my faith being shaken. as of right now i have no other christain friends which, while very dissipointing, has made me try harder to be a good christain so as to try and set a good example. i am very resiliant in that way, which i am very thankful for. but is there absolutly nothing else i can do? because i know that there are many religions that actually disprove themselves if you study it enough, so while i will still pray for him, anything else at all i could even try would be loved.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:49 pm
Well, as Angel Of Caring has explained, anyone that does not have Christ in their hearts and believe He is their Lord and saviour and that he lives is basically following satan. It even says it in the bible.
Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. He will hate the first master and love the second, or he will be devoted to the first and despise the second. You cannot serve God and wealth.
So if your friend is following the Wiccan ways, then he is basically turning his back to God. But again, you shouldn't talk to him about these things unless you are spiritually ready or when you feel is the right time to tell him about these things. Other than that, you should still love him as your friend.
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:22 pm
Isoude Being a wiccan's not a bad thing. Just because their religion is seemingly a "pagan" one does not make it evil, and it does not mean that that person that has converted to this religion needs any form of "help". That all depends on your views. To a Christian, being a Wiccan is bad, because they obviously do not have the same beliefs. Not believing the same thing in and of itself is not wrong, but the fact is that we Christians believe that if you don't believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and your Lord and Savior, who died on the cross to save everyone from their sins, you're gonna go to Hell. Isoude The Wiccan religion has many of the same moral values of Christianity. If you hurt someone, it is immoral and you will face the consequences. It is not a "devil worship" religion in ANY way, and indeed, it promotes goodness of heart and morals, although its means for doing so may be different than those of Christianity. There is one HUGE difference - Wiccan's don't believe in the ONE thing that makes Christianity. Jesus. Oh, and God. If I'm correct, they believe in the Goddess, as well as several others. I could be wrong, though. It's a very nature based form of witchcraft, but witchcraft nonetheless. Isoude Saying someone needs help because they are not Christian anymore is a form of stereotyping and discrimination. Good Christians should be accepting of everyone regardless of their choice for religious belief - unless, of course, it is harmful to themselves or others. (Wiccanism is not.) It's really not a form of stereotyping or discrimination. And "good Christian" really isn't the right term. It's more of " true Christian". Yes, we should accept them, and care about them. Part of caring about them includes thinking about their welfare, in this life, and after. And, since we believe that if you don't believe in Jesus, we also believe that if you don't, you'll go to Hell. So, it's only natural that he'd care about, and want to help his friend. Isoude So, if I were you, I would stop worrying and be supportive of your friend. Most likely they are just experimenting and/or going through a phase that they will eventually grow out of. If you can't be supportive, then at least don't SHOW that you're unsupportive, as it may hurt your friend's self-esteem and feelings, and harm your relationship. I don't know about his friend, but my friends take some hard truths from me. If I don't approve of it, I let them know. They don't have to follow my advice or listen to me. They just know how I feel about the situation.
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:07 pm
well, there's white wicca and black wicca, white being the good one without all the weird, scary stuff. which one is he?
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:10 pm
Angel of Caring Isoude Being a wiccan's not a bad thing. Just because their religion is seemingly a "pagan" one does not make it evil, and it does not mean that that person that has converted to this religion needs any form of "help".
The Wiccan religion has many of the same moral values of Christianity. If you hurt someone, it is immoral and you will face the consequences. It is not a "devil worship" religion in ANY way, and indeed, it promotes goodness of heart and morals, although its means for doing so may be different than those of Christianity.
Saying someone needs help because they are not Christian anymore is a form of stereotyping and discrimination. Good Christians should be accepting of everyone regardless of their choice for religious belief - unless, of course, it is harmful to themselves or others. (Wiccanism is not.)
So, if I were you, I would stop worrying and be supportive of your friend. Most likely they are just experimenting and/or going through a phase that they will eventually grow out of. If you can't be supportive, then at least don't SHOW that you're unsupportive, as it may hurt your friend's self-esteem and feelings, and harm your relationship.
(In case you were wondering, I'm not Wiccan. I'm just making a point.)
By the way: If he's getting possessed by spirit guides/demons, they AREN'T the kind of 'demons' as defined in the bible. Most likely it is a farce anyways, so why should you worry? Besides, YOU CAN NEVER WIN IN A RELIGIOUS DEBATE. People hate being argued with about their personal beliefs and the point you try to make will NEVER get through.
My advice - wait until his phase blows over, it most likely will eventually. I can't agree with most of that. Wiccanism is a cult just like any other cult. Even though they believe in right living and being good and moral that doesn't lmean it's correct. If he has turned away from Christ, All Hell has broken loose. Literally. Anything that doesn't releate to the bible or the teachings of Christ is wrong. But I do agree you can't argue with them. Pray for them that is the best thing your can do. Also If this is one of your best friends I would back away from this relationship. Don't surround yourself with people with can hurt your faith. Do lose the friendship but Dont use them as a sourse of influence. If you have any questions about my view point feel free to send me a message, I would love to debate but I dont have the time wait a minute, just b/c you have different beliefs than this person doesn't mean they're wrong. and he souldn't lose his friend over a religion. i bet you have jewish, muslim, etc friends. are they any different? do their beliefs make the person wrong?
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:54 pm
slipknot_afi_freakazoid wait a minute, just b/c you have different beliefs than this person doesn't mean they're wrong. and he souldn't lose his friend over a religion. i bet you have jewish, muslim, etc friends. are they any different? do their beliefs make the person wrong? He isn't out to lose his friend. He's just concerned about his friend getting off on the wrong track. A person is not 'wrong' because of their beliefs, they've just strayed from the right path and need a bit of help getting back. And on the morality of Wicca. Anything straying from the truth of God's Word is wrong. No matter the morals upheld.
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Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:26 pm
[.teh.shmexeh.] Well, as Angel Of Caring has explained, anyone that does not have Christ in their hearts and believe He is their Lord and saviour and that he lives is basically following satan. It even says it in the bible. Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. He will hate the first master and love the second, or he will be devoted to the first and despise the second. You cannot serve God and wealth. So if your friend is following the Wiccan ways, then he is basically turning his back to God. But again, you shouldn't talk to him about these things unless you are spiritually ready or when you feel is the right time to tell him about these things. Other than that, you should still love him as your friend. Their basically not following satan, its just that if you don't believe that jesus is your lord and savior you will not go to heaven, not saying your following the devil.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:35 am
Angel of Caring I can't agree with most of that. Wiccanism is a cult just like any other cult. Quote: Even though they believe in right living and being good and moral that doesn't mean it's correct. Quote: If he has turned away from Christ, All Hell has broken loose. Literally. Anything that doesn't releate to the bible or the teachings of Christ is wrong. Quote: But I do agree you can't argue with them. Pray for them that is the best thing your can do. Quote: Also If this is one of your best friends I would back away from this relationship. Don't surround yourself with people with can hurt your faith. Do lose the friendship but Dont use them as a sourse of influence.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:47 am
Soul_Streak Befor I start, please pardon any spelling error's I may have. Way back in grade school i had a friend on my street who was very close to me. I was christain and he was catholic, and at the time i did not know the difference between the two. But even then, we would have some of the most fulfilling religious conversations i'v ever had with a person. but then he moved away and we drifted apart. As the years passed, i learned more and more about my religion, and about catholics, and became very worried about him. But yesterday he just poped up at my house and asked if i wanted to hang oout with him. I was very happy to see him again, and was waiting for the point which i knew would come up as it always did and i could tell him what i learned. But then he susprises me and tell's me he's wiccan, which i never saw comming. I keow enough about it so that i could converse with him about it, and we had our debate, but i found it impossible to get through to him at all because his definitions for things such as demons are now different from that of the bible's. So when one of his friend's spirit guides (which happens to be a demon they say) posses's them, they dont think it's a bad thing. It's like his internal dictonary has a different deffinition for every word having to do with the bible and religion now. So how can I explane things to him and have him understand?
Now, on the other hand, maybe this person's life path is more of the pagan aspect on life. This is not a bad thing, Wiccans/Pagans are good people who believe in The God & The Goddess, and that all things are connected through divinity (god) They are intune with the earth and praise it for all that it gives us (food, shelter, enlightenment) and the "spirits" that flow through the same lifestream that we do.
Onto the next section . . . you are wondering why your friend has a different definition of the things you both once talked about. That's because he studies other things than just the bible. To be pagan is to be a scholar of sorts. You will find that most pagans are extremely literate and well read. We have a curiosity about the truth and what is right. It may be hard to grasp, and it is NOT that he is turning away from the bible or doesn't believe it. He is just using his free god given will to make up his own mind about what life better suits his needs.
and onto the last one, that can get tricky if not explained right. Demons/Spirits & Possession. Ok, I know that the bible talks only about malevolent evil demons from hell and unholy spirits. Well, in paganism we have done our research and looked for more of an answer than just blinding judging everything we dont' understand as evil. If we dont' understand something, we look it up and figure it out. Now there is such a thing as channeling ancestral or benevolent spirits. Speaking with Ancestral Spirits is basically just talking with those of your family that have died already and are in their period of rest and rejuvenation (because most wiccan/pagans belive in reincarnation) This is not evil, and we're not being possessed, we're just speaking on an otherworldly plane.
Now as for Spirit Guardians, we do can have one or many of these and these are NOT evil. And they don't possess us, they are here to watch over us. As you would have an Angel or a Saint watch over you, it's basically the same thing except we call it something different. We "pray" to the spirits guardian to watch over us and give us strength just as you would pray to god, or an angel, or a saint to watch over and/or protect you or give you strength for something.
And we have a few of malevolent evil "demons" too, but our definition and the way we handle them is a bit different. No we dont' embrace them, but we take matters into our own hands when getting rid of them or dealing with them.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:50 am
slipknot_afi_freakazoid well, there's white wicca and black wicca, white being the good one without all the weird, scary stuff. which one is he?
And getting into witchcraft is an entirely different debate that you guys just aren't ready to get into yet. Because while there are good and bad aspects to it, there is no 'color" no black and white, yet there is light and dark. sweatdrop I hope I didn't loose anybody, lol.
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