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Does anybody else think that this feature has been diminished so far that it almost worthless? My friends and I are trying to thin of ways to rework the multiclassing feature to make it so that it is actually useful again without being broken. Anybody have any ideas or suggestions?

That was a bit of a goal of theirs.


The thing is, 4th edition is made to be a stand alone system. When I say stand alone, I don't mean as "apart from the other version"; almost all of them have been that. But it's a self contained game. There's a way to play without a DM in 4th edition. The game is partially revolving around the miniatures game as well. And third (And this is my biggest key) 4th Edition is/was targetted at the 13-24 year old group of gamers who have been playing World of Warcraft. It's developed to take a class through huge levels, continually expanding upon a number of a key abilities everyone has access to as well as a handful of class specific abilities to help define the key party roles again. You have your stealth/sneak attack, your Damage Dealer, your Tank, your healer, and a Blaster. Also, I've heard rumors (can not verify as I never read the MM, just PHB and parts of DMG) that the key group size is no longer geared to four players and a DM, but (imagine this), six and a DM.

As sad as it is, the game is evolving in a back-asswards manner. Rather than evolving with it's players who are using technology to get better groups, exchange ideas, and enjoy multiple systems, the WotC staff has decided to evolve to a new player base, and somewhat exile those of us who hold a distaste towards the miniatures. Sadly, capitalism (as much as I support it) has given Wizards a reason to look away from us. We're not going to buy the minis, so we're expendable. However, people looking to make use of their minis and learn the game are in the better. And those people looking to learn of this old game pick up one where they're taught that the minis are a nearly indispensable part of the game, and spend more money upon those little plastic figures with rotating bases.

Can I blame them for going where the money is? No.

Can I dislike them for turning on people who learned on THAC0 and expanded later into the d20 system? Yeah, I can feel like I just got slapped in the face.


But to better expand upon my answer to your question.



Multiclassing is fairly a waste in the system. Don't get me wrong, I might have missed a great loop somewhere. From what I saw of it though, it's not a viable option. The game is keyed to a player being a class. I never even looked into PrC in the new system (which I should just to find out), but I doubt they expand on talents too much. Fighters are fighters, rogues are rogues. You are what you are; don't try and be two things; be a master of one.

Which, IMO, is pointless. Give a 30 level cap, and push for single classes again. Ten more levels to expand through, and yet you're supposed to be detered from expanding your character's class list and skill list.


So, in short, multiclassing was NERFed. Sorry to say it, but 4th is riddled with errors in judgement on behalf of Wizards.






Edit:

Also, sorry to have taken three days to reply. Since I'm not a 4th edition gamer, I wanted to give a chance for someone who has played it to have the privlidge of giving the reply. Unfortunately, it looked like no one was really ready to lay out their opinion on the new system yet. Anyhow, you have my answer all the same.

I'm sorry bro, but you're far mistaken.

Gygax himself said the game was never really intended to proceed much past the teens. "Epic" level gaming was something that was brought about by people keeping groups together for so long that it was neccessary to challenge the players.

It was known in first edition that a party of 8-10th level adventurers could easily lay waste to an entire large village or small city and retire comfortably with their goods. They had reached the end of their adventuring unless they went out and saught higher challenges specifically. Imagination brought about that 16th level necromancer who shouldn't, in all fairness, exist in that world without having been noticed years ago by the NPCs. He'd have been a threat as he leveled to that point.

As for comparing hearts to poker; though I dislike the analogy, I guess I can see it fitting in a way. Fourth Edition was designed for a new group of gamers used to a different style of play. It's for a different mentality in ways; it's just not the same, IMO. Been playing it [D&D - Not fourth edition] for a number of years, and just looking at it [This time I mean fourth edition] makes me feel as if I should be looking at a computer game playing a TBC game.

It's worth multiclassing into classes like cleric and warlord early (levels 1 and 2) at least and then switching out with retraining later. The reason? Multiclassing into those classes gives an additional minor action skill that prompts a healing surge, which you'll find are surprisingly few in the standard low level party. Additionally, that one extra skill training is always welcome, especially as at those low levels, the +5 actually means something.

Multiclassing was nerfed. It was nerfed a lot. In fact, the thing I personally dislike about fourth edition is that they've made it near impossible for a powergamer like myself to optimize a charecter; they give you 2-4 power options per level, and you can only make so many builds out of that. In my opinion, outside of the money-making arguement, Wizards took DnD and pretty much force-fed us a system where every charecter is roughly equal in power, whether we like it or not. It seems the only ingenuity to be had in this system is in creative use of power special effects such as a slide, slow, push and pull.

I personally really like the fact that 4.0 has balanced the classes more. I never played 3.5 much, but I've heard many tales of groups with several martial characters and a single wizard, and that single wizard could decimate the rest of the party, who are roughly the same level, with barely any effort. It seems wrong to me that two characters of equal experience can have such a large gap in power, unless it was through clever manipulation of class features, feats, skills, powers, w/e. That, I haven't the slightest problem with.

Back to the issue of multiclassing, though, it does seem as if you are right, GSingley, they intended to all but phase multiclassing out with this edition. Recently they have released some playtests in Dragon magazine that allow for a Hybrid character, though. A character that is literally two classes simultaneously. And then they can multiclass other than that also. Choosing to be a Hybrid character, though, must be done at 1st level, upon creation.

yeah dude, i agree with GSingly on this one, it's just proper gaming to be balanced. besides, you Powergamers piss me off big time... it's all metagame thinking with you guys, and getting to the next level... it isn't about the story, or the plot, or the fantasy... it's all still just one big stack of stats and rules and dice to you. when i play D&D i want it to be something i look back on and think to myself, "DAMNIT, why didn't i write this down!? i could have made a novel!"