Welcome to Gaia! ::

(taken from the Gaians of California's guild thread)



I personally think this is as much a part of California's heritage as the settlers themselves. Without immigrants, illegal or otherwise, California wouldn't be the diverse and culturally rich state it is today.

Legal or otherwise, immigration is the backbone of this country, and that is something no one can deny. Yes, people do sneak over the border to get into here, but consider why there doing it. They see that America has all this opportunity available to them. A chance to start life over and live better than they are now, with better food, better housing, and better overall quality of life. We have it, they want it, and they'll do whatever it take to get it.

And its because of that that the caucasians of the world are doing business and trading stocks instead of picking stalks of corn or cotton. And honestly, if they had the chance to replace all those field workers, would they want to? Would they want to work those back breaking conditions in the blazing sun for the little pay they get? The answer, obviously, is no, because thats not what they're used to. They're used to getting things with their brain power and not with their muscles. Immigrants just want to survive and eke out a living(usually), so the jobs they acquire reflect that attitude.

If you really want to stop them from running over to America, you have to make them not want to leave their home. If anyones ever seen a tape of a typical Mexican street, you know that their typical living conditions are no better than what you see in places like East LA or Compton. Hell, even those places look more appealing than the squallor and deplorable conditions of a Mexican city. And thusly, they will risk life and limb and being killed to make it to America. Because, as I'm sure anyone can tell you, the promise of a better life and a better future would make anyone risk the present.

Immigration has been a touchy subject since our nation began. While grandiose invitations like that of Emma Lazarus's "The New Colossus" certainly give the impression that America welcomes all who would enter with open arms, that is certainly far from the truth. Most immigrants are only grudgingly welcomed to our shores. This is hardly a new phenomenon. The Irish wave of the late 19th century were treated as less than garbage, the original "white trash." The Italians recieved a similar welcome. The Chinese on the west coast were welcomed for their cheap and efficient labor, but otherwise viewed with suspicion and distaste. It has been thus throughout our troubled history.

It can hardly be denied that immigrants have long been the hidden strength of our nation. My problem with immigrants, and really American society as a whole, is rampant multiculturalism. I am an American. I was born in America, raised in America, and I have never journeyed off her bountiful shores. Neither have most Americans. My family has roots in Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland, Germany, France, and Italy. While I treasure my ancestors' heritage, I also do not claim to be anything but what I am: an American. I am not Irish-American, or German-American, or anything else.

Claiming that we are all immigrants is a gross generalization. In that sense, it could be said that the entire world outside the Fertile Crescent is made up of immigrants. Where do you draw the line? I have traced my family's presence in North America back to the mid 1600s. There has been an unbroken line of descent for nearly 400 years.

My point is, if you wish to move to America, for whatever the reason, than either become an American, or not. Nationality is not the sort of thing you jump into halfway. You cannot have one foot in Mexico, and the other in the US. I have no problem whatsoever with Americans that immigrated from Mexico. My problem is with Mexicans living in the United States. It may seem a fine distinction to some, but it is one that I feel important.

That said, I welcome all who would work hard for the betterment of my country, American or not. Just don't expect the benefits of being an American if you are not one. Don't expect my hard earned tax dollars to pay for your health care, education, or food when you are contributing little or nothing in return.

As for second generation Americans and beyond, just give it up. If you choose to call yourself an American, don't claim that your heritage makes you any different than anyone else in this country. While your parents may indeed have come from Italy, or China, or Africa, you have no more right to the title Italian, Chinese, or African than I do. Treasure your (grand)parents' heritage, but do not assume that it is automatically yours as well.

And the claim that "Native" Americans have some unique distinction as "true" Americans is utter nonsense. They are no more or less American than I am. If you look back, before Europeans arrived in America, the Native Americans immigrated here as well. They may have had a few centuries head start, and walked instead of sailed, but they are just as alien to these shores as those of European descent.

Now that was much longer and rather more disorganized than I intended, but it's just what flowed when I started typing.

I simply don't give a damn about heritage or diversity. It's a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned.

What I do care about are the existence of individuals in this country who came here illegally and demand to receive the benefits from various programs and services that are funded by taxpayer's money.

Should foreigners have the opportunity to live in this country? Sure, but it should be done legally. Should they receive certain benefits from government services? Sure, but they gotta pay taxes and contribute, just like the rest of us. THERE ARE NO FREE RIDES.

The funny thing, Vyce, is the fact that this is probably the thread. XD It's over two years old.

I also agree with what you say about how some people don't lift a finger for services just for being born here; but in all honesty, that's never been a problem with just Americans or just immigrants. It's a problem that involves people who aren't much more then parasites, in my opinion.

As for jobs, I agree completely. It sucks that some people are born into money (some degree or another) and others need to drag themselves out of squalor and go through construction work, farming or some other sort of labor to get at least to middle-income for their families.

As for walls, I agree. In Penn & Teller's Bullshit, they had a group of six to seven illegal immigrants build a wall that's at the standard for George W. Bush's plan. Then, at the end of the day, they made three groups with two people in each and had each group bypass the wall: one going over, one going through, and one going under with just a pair of metal-clippers...Or something like that

No group took more then 3 minutes. And if you must know, the one who went through the wall was the fastest.

The big and small of it is, walls don't work. Neither does shooting them. In order to become a legal citizen, they should be able to speak, read, and write English well ('Well' is a nebulous term, but I'd say at least at a high school level). They should have some background knowledge of U.S. History- nothing encyclopedic, but they should know what in the hell happened during World War 2 and who the President is- even though nobody likes the guy anymore.

So, what makes the process of making an immigrant a legal citizen of the U.S. so difficult? I'm not being sarcastic, I just seriously don't know the complications involved. =x

Agreed; if I had to guess, based upon illegal immigrants I've seen (Believe me. e.e It isn't hard to tell), the reasons why they would avoid doing it the legal way is because of what you consider to be unneccessary: learning English and knowing history. Of which I disagree.

Why Speak English in America?

The article isn't big, somuch as the comments are; but I'd reccomend it. =x Especially considering it has a few reasons that I don't feel like imitating right now.

However, I will mirror what it says about how important it is for immigrants to learn English well: "As Jose Martin Samano, TV Azteca’s U.S. anchor, has said, 'Immigrants here in the U.S. can make up to 50% or 60% more if they speak both English and Spanish.'" Pushing English on immigrants might seem like racism and being cruel, but consider the following: by setting a standard and pushing employees and students to speak English well (However frustrating it would be at first), it hurts "..the chances of immigrants to reach their full potential in America..".

I'd say that the U.S. should provide English classes for willing immigrants- oh, wait; they already do. The only problem is that there aren't enough of them, and thousands of immigrants that want to learn English are stuck waiting because of that. So immigrants aren't stupid; they value learning English well, but aren't always capable of getting the proper education for it.

New York Times - Education of Immigrants

Yeah, another article; but if you don't feel like reading it, I can understand. Reading the whole thing means reading a .pdf file.

But my sentiment on having some rudimentary knowledge of U.S. history, the foundations on what this country was laid upon, remains the same. Some may believe that knowing about the sacrifices of blood, sweat and pain that this country went through to be useless. Who cares about the guerilla warfare and the desperation of the Revolutionary war and the eloquence of both the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution- which, by the way, lays down the bare basics of rights that most of us take for granted? Who really wants to know why the United States nearly tore itself apart to abolish African-American slavery, and the strife that continued for years afterward? Who really gives a damn about how an entire generation was destroyed in a single great war, and how twenty years after that the United States laid even more lives on the line alongside Great Britain, France, and eventually Russia to end a second world war? And let's not mention the Korean War, the Vietnam Conflict, the Cold War- how many countless lives were lost simply to defend the principles of democracy that this country stands on (And don't go to say that the Vietnam Conflict was a waste; I know it is, but people died for their country)? We might as well forget about those who're fighting and dying in the Middle East right now and why they're over there while we're at it.

Sorry, Vyce. I respect your opinion and all, but knowing about those who've made the ultimate sacrifice for this country and why- even if the reasons aren't good ones- is pretty damned necessary. If they don't know why the U.S. is considered a free country, then they don't deserve to live here- and the same goes for anyone else who calls themselves an American.

--On a side note, the issue of illegal immigration is mostly "based upon the unfounded fear that illegal immigrants are pouring over our borders in unprecedented numbers", according to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). According to "The Rights of Immigrants -ACLU Position Paper (9/8/2000)":

"Much of the anti-immigrant sentiment in this country is based on the unfounded fear that illegal immigrants are pouring over our borders in unprecedented numbers. In fact, the vast majority of immigrants in our country have entered legally under the strict standards imposed by the Immigration and Nationality Act. The Act allows approximately 800,000 people to settle here each year as permanent residents including about 480,000 who are admitted to reunite with their spouses, children, parents and/or siblings; about 140,000 who are admitted to fill jobs for which the U.S. Department of Labor has determined no American workers are available; about 110,000 refugees who have proven their claims of political or religious persecution in their homelands; and about 55,000 who are admitted under a "diversity" lottery, begun in 1990, that mainly benefits young European and African immigrants.

It is impossible to determine with any precision how many immigrants take up residence in the U.S. each year without permission, but there is now evidence that the numbers used by anti -immigrant organizations and politicians have been greatly exaggerated. During his 1996 presidential bid, for example, Patrick Buchanan claimed that the undocumented Mexican population was growing by a million or more a year. But according to the 1997 report issued by the Binational Study on Migration and commissioned by the U.S. and Mexican governments, the annual average is closer to 105,000 Ð only one-tenth of Buchanan's figure. The total number of people from all countries who entered illegally or overstayed their visas in 1996 was estimated by the INS to be 275,000, again a fraction of Buchanan's claim, and less than one-tenth of one percent of the U.S. population. "

Go figure; we're arguing over a ghost. XD