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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:42 am


According to this article, there is a study which shows that religion actually makes people worse off than those who don't have a religion.

Some of you might've already seen it, but it's news related to atheism, so I'll post it anyway.

Societies worse off "when they have God on their side"
Quote:
RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social performance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its "spiritual capital". But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: "Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

"In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

"The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so."

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world�s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from "uniquely high" adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: "The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America."

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. "I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states," he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

"The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator."

"The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted."


Just more proof that atheism makes more sense than religion.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:38 am


wow. so now religion is bad for us? never thought that...

aravier


The Amazing Mr. Tommyos!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:37 am


Hooray for Brittish observational genius.
Too bad all those blowhard religous right mongers won't hear a word of it.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:55 am


That article made me feel fuzzy inside.

...and a little fuzzy outside, too.

Seriously though, this is good stuff -- more people should read it. Unfortunately, as The Amazing Mr. Tommyos said, the zealots will dismiss it as a satanic attempt to corrupt their nation. Then they'll probably say something about the feminist agenda or something.

Bowmore


Dathu

Newbie Noob

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:48 am


Well, there it is. I've been saying it for years and finally I have like minded people agreeing with me. I had to google it to find the original article. I dunno about you, but I rarely believe it unless I see the official source. So for those of you like me who like to see the source it's here. The Times
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:42 pm


aravier
wow. so now religion is bad for us? never thought that...


I have thought of it countless times, and observed it even more.

How ironic is it not that my dear younger brother who believes deeply in religion and reads the bible every night also happens to be among the few males that are anaroxic?

I have a step-bro(who is not allowed in this house)...this one is quite religious. He beleives that "God" will take care of him and if he dies than it is because "God chose to make it the right time to take him). He is also mentally sub-normal. He is a drug addict and dealer. He is a con-artist, a freeloader, and once threated to burn my parent's home down.

How ironic is it not that a big numbeer(I don't mean anything rude by it) of people that have children that are borned screwed up happen to be highly religious? Why is that?

I don't think the study above accounts for this:

Yes there are many many people who are born disabled: Mentally subnormal, physically stunted, phsyical deformed...Ect.

Why is it that most people that I have met and seen their parents....their parents happen to be highly religous...super religious in fact?

I don't get it. I don't say it to be mean to those that are born less fortunate than others.....but why is it that the most religious people alive give birth to children that are most messed up?

I thought it was something to point out, and intersting to think about. It always bugged me.

Sanguvixen


Sanguvixen

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:54 pm


The Amazing Mr. Tommyos!
Hooray for Brittish observational genius.
Too bad all those blowhard religous right mongers won't hear a word of it.


Some people are really blind. The Truth can be looking them straight in the eye, yet their mind and beliefs cloud they're vision, and they refuse accept that which they see.

Someone I knew said something like this "Maybe there are dragons living around us. If we saw a dragon...would we know it? Would we be aware of what it is we are seeing? Maybe the reason we cannot see them is because we refuse to.

If somebody walked along a stream and saw a dragon basking in the sun, they might look straight it, and walk by, never realizing it was there.

It was really pretty how that person put it.

But in the same way there are so many people out there that refuse to see what is really before them. They'll look for every excuse they can possibly find or make up to explain away the truth.

Some of the most Die Hard Religious Zealots are that way because they are really blind. So blind are they that they shut thier mind, their ears, and their heart, so that there is no chance that the truth can get inside.

The reason why God exists is because we made it. You can make a God, just through faith. If you beleive long enough, you might be able to hoodwink your mind into thinking that everything around us made by a Godess of Soda.

The mind must be kept open in order for it to work. If you close it and keep beleiveing in what fantasies you create....you'll never see that dragon by the side of the stream.

You'll just see a big log, and gaze at it wondering how wonderful you're "God" is to have blessed your life with the ability to see such a beautiful river. You'll gaze at the swaying plants. But you'll never see what is really there.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:05 pm


Wow. This is really sad. This is exactly what we were talking about in my early american lit class. Puritans believed the 'city on a hill' example (phrase from John Winthrop's A Model of Christian Charity) and felt that not just godlessness but inclusion of any one other than 'the chosen' or other Puritans would lead to the downfall of society and chaos. An early writer to refute this and argue against persecution of conscience was Roger Williams. He had a good way of explaining it- when you're crossing on a ship, it doesn't matter who has what beliefs. People will still obey the captain and follow orders for their own safety and the well-being of others around them. And there can be punishment for people who endanger others and break rules, if needed. He criticized Puritans for being on ships with peoples of different faiths without any problems, yet then having problems with them upon returning to land. There is nothing about a society of like-minded believers that makes it safer or 'better' and there's nothing about a diverse society that inherently makes it lawless.
Like Sanguvixen was talking about, the Puritans were very very blind. Many of them were very well read and well educated, but they were blind to things. They had a distinct narrow way of looking at life that revolved around their religious beliefs and their moral interpretation of the world. Nothing happened without it being related to god or some moral lesson and no one was right except for them and that gave them the right to treat others as they would. They could be quite violent and harsh for the sake of their faith. For a lot of people, that mindset still exists. It's faded a lot, but it can still be seen in some individuals and it can be seen in most individuals to some degree and in some circumstances.
Today, however, I think you notice a lot more believers who don't actually practice their religion. Many people I went to highschool with were only christian because they said they were and they believed what the Bible said. Other than that, their actions and words would lead you to think they were not religious. When people say that being religious would increase morality, they mean if one were to practice their faith loyally and actually stick to its moral codes. In reality, having a high percentage of 'religious people' in a society doesn't gaurantee anything.

"The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator."
"The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted."

I agree with the above, and it's a good choice of statements to end with and sum the article's argument up, but I don't think you can go any further than that. In other words, you can't turn the tables and say that because most citizens are theists the society cannot 'enjoy good conditions'. There are too many potential factors at play to narrow it that far.

caustic 0_0

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[Satan]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:44 pm


Whoah, that just made my day. 3nodding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:40 pm


My dad's friends have a son who is so devoutly religious that he won't date, because he thinks that God will just plop the right woman in front of him and they'll just marry right on the spot, knowing they're meant for each other.

Yeah. Good luck with that. At least he won't breed. rolleyes

To Escape Detection


Bowmore

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:50 am


Now now Misery, let's not bring eugenics into it...

...


...oh, who am I kidding, just remove him from the gene pool.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:01 pm


Well, that's the best news I've heard in a while.

Kharybuce

Newbie Noob


[Satan]

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:54 pm


Kharybuce
Well, that's the best news I've heard in a while.
You've returned! eek
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:14 am


Is anyone here really surprised?

I mean, we all know the fundies are the cause of a lot of america's socail ills. They're certainly far less tolerant to...well everyone, they swing unhealthily to the right, they vote rediculously stupid rednecks into government offices, they ignore reality even when reality hits themover the head with a brick.

Frankly they're idiots.

Redem


Sanguvixen

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:32 pm


redem
Is anyone here really surprised?

I mean, we all know the fundies are the cause of a lot of america's socail ills. They're certainly far less tolerant to...well everyone, they swing unhealthily to the right, they vote rediculously stupid rednecks into government offices, they ignore reality even when reality hits themover the head with a brick.

Frankly they're idiots.


What gets me is that our current president of the United States got a majority of his votes from the religious. By catering to the religious he made it into office.

It feels disturbing to have a President that is so highly religious. Something doesn't feel right about having one of those types in office.

In my perspective he doesn't serve the needs of the people as a whole. Only those whom are religious.

It is not too surprising to find that most homes with problems happens to have highly religious parents.

Many of children rebel against their parents because of thier parents religious views.

Some parents seem to think that they should impose thier beliefs over their children. I feel that it is horrible that many a child never gets the chance to choose thier path (Believer, or Non-Believer).

To me it is cruel and is a form of brain-washing. I try to be polite...but the reality is that most people today were brain-washed to believe in a Fake God when they were younger.

They still believe in such a primitive belief system, even though we no longer live in a primitive world.

That causes problems. Many problems infact. I feel that if we do not get rid of Religion, the consequences will be the extinction of the human race.

Look at most of the violent wars in our past? Why were they fought? It's obvious isn't it? Because someone thinks that thier God, Thier story of Creation, and Thier Story of Demise, is the only true version. So they put thier views into hyperdrive and try to drive off other beliefs systems into extinction.

Why did 911 happen? Because some terrorist groups decided that the U.S.A is a bad country because it doesn't follow thier religion. They are fighting a "Holy War" to call it correctly.

Peace can only come when all religions leave.
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