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Artemesia_of_Persia Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:28 am
Jane Eyre, Austin's Elizabeth Bennett, Larry Diamond, Ford Prefect
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:46 pm
I've been here before a few times
Zidane, Zidane! =3 He's emo and has a monkey tail XD
And I'm quite aware we're dying
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:28 pm
Gwalchmai mab Gwyar, Peredur mab Efrawg, and Owein mab Uryen Rheged.
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:20 am
Lexenos I've been here before a few times
Zidane, Zidane! =3 He's emo and has a monkey tail XD
And I'm quite aware we're dying Tell me of this Zidane. BatWulf Gwalchmai mab Gwyar, Peredur mab Efrawg, and Owein mab Uryen Rheged. Tell me of the last two.
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:31 am
Niran_Betta_Fish BatWulf Gwalchmai mab Gwyar, Peredur mab Efrawg, and Owein mab Uryen Rheged. Tell me of the last two. Peredur is the Welsh Percival. His tale in the Mobinogi is considered by many scholars to be a precursor for the Grail Quest and quite possibly the source material used by Chretien de Troyes for his Percival, the very first Grail text. Another school of thought is that Peredur is a Welsh version of Chretien's work, while a third advocates a common source for both, now lost. Peredur is a classic Celtic vengeance story, with a host of other folkloric elements as well. Peredur's father and brothers are all knights, but they're all killed in wars and tournaments. His mother raises her youngest son, Peredur, in seclusion in the woods, and he grows up in complete ignorance of the outside world. One day, he meets some knights in the forest, and intrigued, he sets off to become a knight himself, breaking his mother's heart. He arrives at Arthur's court just in time to see the Red Knight riding out, having just gravely insulted the Queen, and overthrows said knight, taking his arms for himself. He then sets out upon a long series of adventures, learning as he goes and falling in and out of love with various ladies. Eventually, he finds the man who had killed his father, thus avenging his family's honor, and marries the woman he loves most in the world. Peredur's story very closely parallels that of Percival, with one glaring exception: there is no mention of a/the Grail. At all. Once Peredur has avenged his father's death, he is able to live happily ever after. In Chretien (who died before finishing his tale, thus creating the great mystery which has lasted for centuries concerning the nature of the grail), Percival is chastised for not seeking to return to the castle where he saw the grail (though it is unclear why he needs to return there and what the grail has to do with anything), and it ends, mid-sentence, as he's set out. Later Continuators took up the tale and added the material we now know as the Holy Grail. But none of this exists in Peredur, which is what leads many to believe Peredur is the original, or closer to the unknown original than the more courtly Percival. Owein is the star of his own branch of the Arthurian Mabinogi, Owein, or the Countess of the Fountain. His tale very closely parallels Chretien's Yvain. Like Gerient (and Chretien's Erec and Enid), Owein is a romance primarily concerned with a hero's knightly duty balanced against his devotion to his lady. While out seeking adventure, Owein comes upon a magic or holy fountain and bests it's champion. He is then married to the previous champion's wife and takes over the role of champion himself. Unfortunately, this means hanging out at the fountain all the time, not able to go off questing or even visit Arthur's court and all his friends. He finally secures permission to visit Arthur's court for three months. But he stays for three years, forgetting about his obligation, and makes the tournament rounds, etc. Luned, the Countess of the Fountain's handmaiden (who was instrumental in saving Owein's life and securing his marriage to the Countess) arrives at court and upbraids him. Suddenly, he comes to his senses...and promptly loses them entirely. He's driven mad by the knowledge that he's failed his duty to both his wife and his people (in the castle of the Fountain), and he runs off to live as an animal in the wilderness. But even in his madness, there's a spark of hero left in him, and when he comes upon a lion being attacked by a giant serpent, he saves the lion's life and destroys the monster. The lion is so grateful, it becomes his companion, hunting with him and acting as docile as a lapdog. Slowly, he regains his mind again. One day (still running around naked in the woods like a wildman), he and the lion come upon a cave where Luned is being held captive by some bad guys. It seems the Countess kicked her out of her employ, since Luned not only arranged the marriage to Owein in the first place, she failed to bring Owein back from Arthur's court. Owein rescues her, and in the process, his mind is fully healed once again. They return to the castle of the Fountain, and the Countess welcomes them. Owein remains there as the Fountain's champion for the rest of his life. It is interesting to note that both Owein and his father, Uryen Rheged, are actual, historical persons who lived just after the supposed time of Arthur. Like many real people (and fictional characters), they were drawn into Arthur's circle.
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:39 am
Ah. Percival (Parsivale, Parsifal etc.) I know, having read several medieval versions. I feel like an idiot for not recognizing him.
Owein, I clearly missed somehow.
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:51 pm
Niran_Betta_Fish Ah. Percival (Parsivale, Parsifal etc.) I know, having read several medieval versions. I feel like an idiot for not recognizing him. Owein, I clearly missed somehow.
Don't feel bad, most people don't make the leap from Peredur to Percival or Parsifal. d doesn't usually mutate to s, nor r to l, so they really look like different names.
Owein becomes Yvain in French, and the the more recognized Owain in Mallory, and finally the Modern English Owen. As an historic figure, he once had a whole cycle of legends surrounding him (in much the same way as Charlemagne and Richard the Lion-Hearted), but with the advent to supremacy of the Arthurian cycle, the legendary character and many of his deeds became absorbed, to the point where he is relatively unknown today, outside Arthurian circles. I mean, everyone's heard of Lancelot (who was pretty much invented and inserted into Arthuriana) and Galahad (same deal, usurping Percival's role in later Grail legends), but who's heard of Owain?
If Wagner hadn't written Parzifal, would most people even know the name Percival? Hard to say, since his role as Grail Questor in the earlier works becomes submerged and largely usurped in the later.
Lancelot is remembered because of his famous Round Table-shattering affair with Guinivere. Galahad is well-known because he was consistently portrayed as the ultimate epitome of Christian knighthood. The names of other knights, if they're known by the layman at all, are generally all lumped together. Gawain? Oh yeah, one of Arthur's knights. Dagonet? Huh? Never heard of him. Owain? Kinda looks like Gawain, is he a knight, too?
Worse still, even among undergraduate scholars, only the Mallory versions/spellings are likely to be known. As an undergraduate English major, I read Sir Gawaine and the Greene Knight, but no one outside the class (including other English majors) had ever heard of it. And people in that class (aside from the prof, of course) had never heard of the Mabinogi, so that when I tried to make comparisons to Gwalchmai, I was met with blank stares. No idea what would have happened at the graduate level, since I shifted my academic focus to writing. I wish now that I'd taken a graduate level course in Medieval lit, but I was just too busy at the time (and the one really, really good professor of that subject went on vacation to Europe with his wife, who also taught Med lit, the summer before I started grad school, and as they were boarding the plane home, I kid you not, he dropped dead of an aneurysm at the boarding gate).
I think the point of all the above is, even if you had been an English major and read all sorts of English (and French and German) Arthurian literature, you're not likely to have been exposed to the Mabinogi or its characters. It's the sort of thing you need to sniff out on your own, and only because you really want to, for whatever reason.
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:52 am
I'm well aware of Gawaine/Gwalchmai. Most of his deads got eaten by the Lancelot legend. Lancelot's love story was once poor Mordred's, who's now remembered as a rapist.
Yvain, I recognize.
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:25 pm
This place only further reinforces the feeling that I am completely uncultured.
*Goes back to listening to Motorhead*
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:50 pm
Spoot-maker This place only further reinforces the feeling that I am completely uncultured. *Goes back to listening to Motorhead* Don't worry. You'll get more cultured with time. Like cheese. Mmmm.
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:58 pm
ottery Spoot-maker This place only further reinforces the feeling that I am completely uncultured. *Goes back to listening to Motorhead* Don't worry. You'll get more cultured with time. Like cheese. Mmmm. *belts out Ace of Spades just for Spoot*
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:09 am
NecHocNecIllud ottery Spoot-maker This place only further reinforces the feeling that I am completely uncultured. *Goes back to listening to Motorhead* Don't worry. You'll get more cultured with time. Like cheese. Mmmm. *belts out Ace of Spades just for Spoot* I am such a yob
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:54 am
Jon Osterman, Rorshach, Alec and Richard from Swordspoint.
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