Welcome to Gaia! ::

There seem to be some illusions going about the AG and its current state. To go straight to the point, the guild has left it's roughly stagnant state and entered into a decline, and that's being a little nice about it. Wires are getting crossed all over the place, invisible/non-existent lines are being drawn in the sand, and someone needs to clean out the Hell Bus, because I'm tired of the little 'helper monkeys' throwing their fecal matter around in it and using it as a lounge.

Still, we have to face that the AG is in disrepair, and that some people (lol, hi pot) aren't doing anything beyond being. As a result, nothing's happening, which tends to be the result when things remain static. So, we've got a couple choices here:


1. Stay the course! All hands brace for impact and we'll pick up what survivors we have and continue to eek out our meager existence of the past few months.


2. Try to resolve, or at least address, the existing conflicts between guild members, which would require people to want to come back, stick around, etc.


3. Say ******** it and abandoned the guild to die, leaving whatever squatters are undoubtedly waiting to slink into the AG and use it as something.


4. Say ******** it and work to rebuild the guild with what we have, tying into the second point of resolving conflicts among those remaining. Essentially we'd have to head out and repopulate the guild.


I'm sure there are other alternatives, and frankly, better ones than what I've thrown up. Still, we need to set ourselves on a path before we can begin our journey forward, and if it ends up taking us somewhere other than we initially planned, that's just how things are.

But right now, we need to decide what we're going to do with the AG, within the next couple of days. Otherwise, it's just more malaise ahead, and if we're going to head down that path, we may as well be in agreement about it.


My only requests about this thread are thus:

Try to leave any feelings towards others at the door, just say what you think is best for the future of the guild, if it's going to have one.

Try to stay focused on the topic at hand. I understand that some people want to fix everything right away, but this isn't about laying hands on the guild and saying, 'get up and dance dance dance'. This is likely going to be an extended process.

Keep it civil, discuss and argue all you want, but remember that this isn't Main. If I have to, I'll be an absolute d**k on this point.


I'll leave this up as an announcement for a few days, then knock it down to sticky, to be sure that you all see it. It's time we got some direction, and figured out what we want as a guild, and how to work towards it.


Personally, I'm all for trying to bridge the gaps that have appeared between the group. I think that we've all worked too long and too hard to just toss this aside or do nothing, and, lets be honest, AG is some of Gaia's best, not easily replaced.

That's me. I think we're worth trying to figure out how to repair rather than abandon or replace. Maybe add an extra annex, but I'd rather have the familiar surroundings than not.

I dunno, I can't see that asking people to air grievances with each other through PMs or whatever is going to do a lot here. It's a noble cause and one that would not be messy, but I just don't see that happening.

What's been learned since the last flare-up, when the idea of doing that kind of reaching out originated? Very little, it seems. Those calls weren't heeded. I certainly haven't seen or heard of any instances where that did happen. Maybe it did somewhere, but nowhere where it really needed to because we're seeing the guild bend along the same fault lines as last time. Last time I just got a couple PMs from people to tell me that they do not like me, have never liked me, and never will. Well, sure that's all fine and dandy, but I knew that already and it really was not moving anything forward.

We need to move forward. We need open and honest communication. If people want to leave the guild or go on a hiatus, fine. I did that, and I came back. That's fine. But what's going on is that people are you know, saying they're leaving, but not really. They just sort of go to ground and either push people around in the background or just pop up unexpectedly to try to get a barb in on someone, which is just ridiculous.

So I think that everyone really needs to stop and think, what is actually going to be good for the guild, so that the guild can go forward.

I'm fine with the fact that some people hate me. I just, you know, don't address them. If they want to make trouble with me, then the consequences of that are on them, because I'm nobody's cartoon and they know that too.

So I think that in general there's people that need to just learn to share a space in a way that allows the guild to remain a neutral ground no matter what you think of the person who just backlogged twenty minutes ahead of you.

Call me selfish, but I am not getting into this.

I have so much stress going on in my life right now, something like this would push me over my breaking point. I do not want any more drama or stress in my life.

I'm going to keep visiting both guilds. I am going to keep talking to people on Livejournal, Myspace, and AIM. You guys know where to find me.

Sorry for being a b***h and stepping back, but I have to do what is best for -me-.

Not a problem, Pi. Merely by even explaining your part in this you've done more than 70% or so of the people involved.

To be honest, I got my biggest expectation answered in that the people who actually have the most problem with the AG didn't bother to chime in on things, even just to give me the list that I wanted of people who've made this place so shitty that they need to withdraw. After all, if there was a chance to actually fix things, they'd have to lift a finger AND lose their chance to b***h about the status quo. Since they lose nothing whatsoever by leaving then they have no impetus to do a thing.

To every one of you who showed concern over my leaving; I thank you, but you're not the problem I'm trying to fix. Hell, most of you either have no problems with the way things are or have shown yourselves to be perfectly willing to deal with the notion of the world not fitting your comfort zone like a goddamn glove.


Unlike Shouj, however, I won't make my parting words an assumption that the lot of you are a bunch of item-grubbing jackasses only out for yourselves, but just that I'll see you around. No, I won't be creating anywhere I can have an idealized version of the guild to see a select group of friends and well-wishers, since that would make a hypocrite of me. Nor will I use a loophole to skirt the issue by re-using an old guild as a secret hidey-hole. I'll work on projects I've shelved over the years, become more active in guilds and forums I've neglected, and try to throw myself back into helpering with an unholy passion.

It's been real, it's been fun, and on many an occasion it has been really fun... but I remember the way things were far too well to feel at home here these days. I'll see you in the trenches. Take care of yourselves.

Reading this thread, it reminds me of something someone said about a whole group of people coming together to point their fingers at the 'bad guys' while never admitting they've done anything wrong. There are things we all could have handled better and communication is a two-way street. I think there's a lot of 'how I'm acting is rational and how I'm communicating is clear, it's their fault' but that's not really coming together to deal with the communication issues.

I know in my short time here, I've already posted plenty of things that I thought were okay but really didn't send the message I intended. The assumptions made from what I had posted weren't really fair to me either though. Sometimes it's hard to keep going after the feedback you get, especially when you've seen others treated in ways you don't want to be treated. They may think 'Well, Foo say everything I wanted to say, and look at Bar's response.' I can understand why some people, especially with what's going on in their lives, table the issue to focus on real life issues. In the end, we are an internet message board, we can't expect to be priority number one.

It's not ideal and it's not necessarily fair, but isn't part of being a great friend to show some understanding, even when we ourselves are hurting, if we know the other party is at their limit? It's really tough - I look back at my life and think of all the times I've failed, but I have faith in all of you to be able to rise to the challenge at times.

I think we all try to shift to handle our friends best, while still maintaining who we are and we can relax being.

At some point, some people may have given up. Cutting one's losses, while not the option we want to see any of our friends taking, is still a valid option. I wish everyone who has done so the best, and invite them to chat wherever online or off they might find me.

I also think there are a lot of incorrect assumptions going around in the rush to put down others. It's easy to believe such terrible things about the people who hurt you, but I think it unnecessarily drives people apart. I think every one of us is trying to make the best of the situation and do what they think is right. We all think differently.

Anyway, I still don't know when to say something in the main thread, in PM, or not say it because it's over and done with and I would just be causing it to flare up again. I still don't entirely 'get it' and I still offend people. I'm trying, but I'm not doing the best job. For that, I sincerely apologize and thank everyone for their patience with me thus far.

As predicted, this is just pretty much nonsense. When only one team shows up you can't play football. We're not about to really solve the problem of why some people leave and go off elsewhere to say this about that, why some people just flat out dislike others, and why some are just throwing up their hands and leaving.

Take a good, long, hard look at who and what makes up the AG as of this moment in history. In terms of who is actually maintaining a public appearance in the guild through the main thread and so on, we have to acknowledge that there has been a Gotterdammerung; we've lost a good majority of the original formative personalities of the guild.

What mostly remains of the guild is the second, third, and fourth generation AGers and we've sort of accidentally inherited the bulk of what goes on in the guild. The ever stalwart Pi is in charge and so on, but the zeitgeist, as always is in the hands of the people posting and making up the bulk of the presence in the guild.

So what I'm saying is that we've got a more relevant question facing us, and I think I was getting around to that in my first post in this experiment but wasn't quite there yet.

We have to decide what the AG is now.

Seems I missed alot while I was gone. Being a somewhat clueless individual in this whole situation, I say we should mend whatever fences need to be mended and try to get things back to the way things were. Honestly, I was getting very, very bored with Gaia and then I got invited to the AG. My boredom seemed to virtually disappear and was instead replaced with alot of new people to talk to and a place to actually spend time at. I for one would love to see 2 and 4 somehow come together and make this place a much more lively place than when I got invited.