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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:18 pm
In order to have an organized debate, we need some rules.
-This is a literate debate. That means absolutely no chatspeak, unnecessary abbreviations, or other such dumbshittery. Spelling and grammar mistakes are accepted to an extent.
-Read the debate before you form your own arguments. Try not to repost ideas over and over. I know you like the "opposites attract" theory, but unless you're going to elaborate upon aforementioned theory, don't repeat it a bunch of times.
-Try to keep bashing to a minimum in terms of the pairings themselves, and refrain from bashing characters and other users. There's a bash forum for your a** kicking needs.
Any post that breaks any of these rules will be edited/deleted without question. Arguments about this rule will not be listened to.
Absolutely no stupid spammy s**t. As in, you pull that s**t on us and we'll pop a cap in your a**.
So, post away!
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:45 pm
If there is any faggotry in this thread I will promptly delete it, if your post isn't worth s**t then don't ******** post it.
Some examples of delete-worthy posts:
"LOL KATAANG R LYKE SO CUTE & CANON. LOLOLOLOLOL!!11!!1!oneone!!!"
"Lol, ur so right. I so agree with u."
"UR JUST DUM CUZ ZUTARA IS LYKE SO HAWT AND TABOO@!!!!!%!111!!"
Although witty banter including "amirite?" is acceptable. Example:
Zutara? More like jewtara, amirite?
Kataang? More like Katgay, amirite? (Seira LOL'd.)
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!! scream
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[Hollow Point] Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:41 pm
Heh, about time. Has anyone else noticed that Kataang and Zutara shippers tend to be more chatspeak-dependent than other shippers? It's probably just because they're louder and there's more of them...
I'm going to make my post a short one, simply because my shipping philosophy on this war isn't too complex.
I believe that Zutara is nice in theory, but doesn't work well with the plot, characters, etc.
On the other hand, Kataang isn't all that enthralling to me, but I accept it as an eventuality and part of the show's core.
I see the majority of the Kataang VS Zutara debate as a sort of Fanon VS Canon scenario.
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:05 pm
Before I begin, have you guys read the epic play "Much Ado About Nothing" by William Shakespeare?
(Also known as Seira's favorite piece of literature ever.)
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:54 am
Much Ado About Nothing is indeed a great work. I know where this is going though. Love/hate relationship argument am I right? Though the comedy is a very good example of it I wont connect it with Zutara immediately. I mean Katara throughly hates Zuko at the moment and even though I know that won't last I'm not going to say it is going to progress into love.
Shakespeare from the beginning made it obvious to where he wanted his characters to end up and just like him, Mike and Bryan have are, to my knowledge, doing the same. I doubt they would build up a unrequited love scenario for Aang only to have the one he truly loves fall into the arms of former enemy.
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:48 pm
That's kindof where I was going, but there's a lot more to it than that. Anyone else read it?
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:26 pm
Unfortunately not. I'm still a Shakespeare nub. -_-; All I've read is what's been assigned in school, which to date has been Merchant of Venice, Romeo and Juliet, and Macbeth. I'm going to read a lot next year, since I'm going into English Lit (Honours program, whoo!), but I'm afraid those 3 are the only I've read.
I've seen Taming of the Shrew?
xD
I totally thought of pissy!Katara when watching it, I'll admit it.
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:37 pm
Of Ninjas and Pirates
That's kindof where I was going, but there's a lot more to it than that. Anyone else read it?
Please explain. I'd love to know your insight. 3nodding Atm I'm in English Lang AP. We read Hamlet, Macbeth, Much Ado About Nothing and Twelfth Night.
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:17 pm
Alrighty. As a forewarning, this will probably be really rant-y and tl;dr, but bear with me.
Also, this is not at all saying "DUDE, SHAKESPEARE DID IT SO IT'S CANON IN AVATAR!!1!one!". I'm simply trying to explain my point of view and why I ship Zutara.
Picture Hero and Claudio. Or, if you haven't read that particular play, picture that chick that sits next to you in your history class who always swoons over the pretty boys and claims to be "madly in love" with them. Picture any situation in which two people fall for each other almost immediately without knowing much about each other.
Now I want you to think about Beatrice and Benedick. Again, other examples would be any two people who fall for each other after knowing/ knowing of the other for a longer period of time.
Now, who's relationship do you respect more?
I don't know if you agree with me, but in my opinion the relationship forged over a long stretch of time is much more believable.
Kataang represents the first option to me. From Aang's point of view, it is an imitation of "love" at first sight. Aang began fostering a puppy-love crush from the very first time he met her. It is a relationship forged of unequal feelings that seems very superficial. Yes, I know Katara loves Aang dearly, but I think that it is just in her nature to nurture in a motherly way. Indeed, she must have found it to be a weak point, because she took offense at Toph's accusations. If she cared for Aang more than simply the mother/friend relationship she has with him now, she wouldn't have changed her actions towards Aang. Katara has basically ignored all of Aang's romantic advances. She seems completely oblivious to Aang's crush, reinforcing the idea that Kataang is one-sided.
I have no respect for Kataang because it is cliche, boring, and doesn't even progress the plot in any major ways. Before you start arguing that Aang's actions are influenced by Katara, any situation in which Aang acts desperately to save Katara would be exactly the same if you swapped Katara out with a different Gaang member. Maybe just with less blushy!Aang.
tl;dr: Kataang is boring and has little to no real rewarding emotional/physical content.
Both Zuko and Katara are full of emotion, so there's an insta-plus. Katara and Zuko have developed interactions. Katara doesn't ignore Zuko emotionally like she does Aang. When you look at the recent episodes, Katara has been automatically contradicting everything Zuko says, rational or not. She lashes out violently because she's still feeling hurt by him. The next rational step for Zuko would be to try to win over the Gaang's affection, and if Katara supports Zuko then they all would. Hurt/comfort is a major step towards a more intimate relationship. Eventually, she'll take Toph's speech about emotions to heart.
tl:dr: A relationship between Katara and Zuko would be fiery (pardon the pun) and interesting at the very least. It would be rewarding and emotionally rich.
In terms of Mike and Bryan, there are plenty of other options in terms of Aang and his emotional wellbeing if Zutara were to happen. I'm sure they could pull it off.
dA: Oedipal Complex
Wow. I haven't edited this yet, so pardon the dusty word storms.
( I have a ton more arguments in my arsenal, but I didn't think that I'd posted this one here yet. I don't remember, though.)
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:10 pm
I understand where you are coming from. I would also like to add how happy I am that you didn't say hate/love = canon!
It is true that Aang's love for Katara is one-sided but I believe that they are building up a slow progression to where Katara will realize that her feelings towards Aang aren't just motherly. Katara wasn't aware of Aang's love for her early on so she didn't think much of his "advances" because she was blind to them. However, now she knows how he feels but she is unsure of how to react. And timing is really bad.
The logical argument would be that if Katara really liked Aang she would have said so in DoBS when he was leaving. But I don't think she knew the extent of this feelings toward her for her to evaluate how she felt. Hopefully the second time around will be different.
As for it being boring, it can seem so because their relationship is very slow moving. I can understand how a fiery love between Katara and Zuko, who have lots of passion would be enticing. However, atm there are a couple inhibators that flaw the happy Zutarian ending. One of them is that right now she hates him. I know that will change soon but I'm not going to go as far as to say they are going to fall in love.
With only a couple episodes left I don't think they would have time to develop an entirely new relationship and put a stop to two that are already in motion (Kataang and Maiko) for Zutara. If they did it wouldn't be emotionally rich because it would seemed somewhat rushed and unfulfilling to me if I liked Zutara. Then again, that is just me cause I know a lot of people who would jump at the idea of them getting stuck in a cave and making steam.
I like development and growth not sudden bursts of passion which is probably why I favor Kataang over Zutara.
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:38 pm
Stickied for great justice, and because I don't want to have to go back to find it later.
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:57 pm
*raises hand* Okay, so I haven't actually read Much Ado, but have seen an awesome take on it that still kept the plot and dialogue intact. Also, Shakespeare and Homer equal heart .
I prefer the ZukoxKatara pairing because of those emotional flare-ups that are so common between them. I'm one of those odd ducks who finds conflict to be enjoyable...and I'm trying to think of a good alternate example, but can't really find one that's PG-13 and not malexmale. Drat. Er, for those of you who have read them, the manga Yellow and FAKE provide some good ones. Rurouni Kenshin with the KaoruxKenshin pairing is another good one, though less full of angst and fewer hurdles.
KataraxAang, as previously stated, is frankly boring and far too predictable. Their relationship and feelings for each other are building up slowly (or not so slowly, in Aang's case) but honestly, while there is mutual respect and affection, there is no spark. No pun intended.
Another reason that I'm on the losing side of the shipping war is that Aang is still, at least in his head and heart, a kid. There has been no evidence that Aang has had any other romantic relationship in his life, thereby making this love for Katara his first. First love is rarely lasting, to the heartbreak of those involved, and I believe that Aang would not provide enough of a challenge to the more mature Katara. (Who has already gone through at least one crush during the series.)
Aang embodies too much of his original element of air. He prefers to avoid conflict, while Katara's nose for trouble inevitably leads her into places where conflict lies in ambush--such occasions also making her grow as a character and in her abilities. The North Pole (Zuko and Pakku), the Fire Nation's earthbender prison, and the Painted Lady moments being prime examples. Zuko, being hot-tempered as well as short-tempered, is just as much a stranger to letting things go as Katara.
Sadly, with as few episodes left as there are, the gods of Avatar would have to pull a very nifty rabbit out of their hat to make ZukoxKatara a canon relationship.
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Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:52 pm
SPOILER WARNING MARKED BY SEIRA
Sorry my response is not too...wordy and such, but i have to leave soon and I wanted to leave a post here. I like Zutara, but I am a bigger fan for Maiko so basically...I root for Kataang to win even if I like Zutara just for the sake of Maiko. (Luckily I can rest peacfully know knowing Maiko is alive in the end and Katara still has Aang.) biggrin
THIS IS THE TYPE OF s**t WE DON"T WANT IN HERE. IT'S ONLY STAYING HERE AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU SHOULDN'T DO.
ALSO, SPOILERS AREN'T ALLOWED IN HERE UNMARKED. WAY TO READ RULES.
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:21 am
Alright, all, now that we've all seen the ending of our beloved series, what do we think? Any new ideas or evidence?
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Princess Tessa of Sailand
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:29 am
Butterfly Nebula I see the majority of the Kataang VS Zutara debate as a sort of Fanon VS Canon scenario.
If the Avatar series was going to go anything like Pride and Prejudice [which did happen for a while], let Zutara shippers take comfort in the fact that Zuko would end up with Katara. Check this link out: ♥
It was written before the finale, but it has a lot of truth. And that's how I thought about it too. So Zutara isn't all that crazy, just different.
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