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 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:57 pm
So, I've actually gotten into a Japanese class now and am no longer just one of the weaboos who says "baka", "kawaii", and "desu". (Yes, I once was.) Well anyway my friend, Travis, who is currently trying to become a graphic novelist asked me what the word for dead person was and I told him "Shinin". But then I got to thinking Shi is the word for four but is used also for things involving death, dead people, and death gods. When I told him that Shi also meant four, though, he said "So how do people distinguish whether or not you're talking about the number four or death?" I told him that it was just a grammatical thing and that someone's not gonna say something like "He got hit by a train and four." But I honestly have no clue. Would anyone like to enlighten me?
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:21 pm
Well, they're written with different kanji, and yes, context is going to play a big part in it (there are lots of homonyms in Japanese, by the way). Not to mention, the verb "to die" is actual "shinu." There is another word for four as well though: yon, which I do think is used more often ("Four people," for example, would be yonnin, not shinin). They have made this connection though too, so there are some superstitions about the number 4.
(And if you think about it, we also have a homonym related to death: die vs. dye. I would say that most of the time we don't have trouble with it.)
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:44 pm
I definitely think it has to do with what is being talked about. I bet it'll be easy to distinguish the two once you're working with it. All of my Senseis have told me yon is more favorable to use anyway.
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:41 am
well all I know is a lot of japanese play around with that confusion
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:42 am
It all depends on the context of the situation. Also, this is why most Japanese don't like getting gifts in fours
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:34 pm
and why some buildings skip the fourth floor... XD
like... elevaor: 3rd floor...5th floor... heeh..
and for other countries it can be the 13th floor
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:52 am
I think because they have more restrictions in word structures tha most languages they have to recycle some words. A little extra fact for you- The number four is seen as one of the most unluckiest numbers there is. Heres a little article about it- http://japanese.about.com/blqow7.htm
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:54 am
ShadowLotus I definitely think it has to do with what is being talked about. I bet it'll be easy to distinguish the two once you're working with it. All of my Senseis have told me yon is more favorable to use anyway. When just counting, you use 'Shi', and when you are counting things, you use 'Yon', but there are also other ways for saying four when counting certain things- is that right?
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:17 pm
JayOneStar ShadowLotus I definitely think it has to do with what is being talked about. I bet it'll be easy to distinguish the two once you're working with it. All of my Senseis have told me yon is more favorable to use anyway. When just counting, you use 'Shi', and when you are counting things, you use 'Yon', but there are also other ways for saying four when counting certain things- is that right? You would use shi, yo, and yon for four. Shi when jsut counting and yo/yon when counting things. The n tends to be dropped with some counters.
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:34 pm
If you're counting like 1,2,3,4,5 it would be said
Ichi ni san shi go
but if you're saying four apples it would be yon ringo
or April would be yon gatsu
shi is mostly only used when counting straight up or down..
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:58 pm
"Shi" can actually be used in 17 or 18 different ways all having distinct meanings: http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PW&L=J&T=shi&WC=none&FG=r&BG=b&S=26
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:14 pm
foggster "Shi" can actually be used in 17 or 18 different ways all having distinct meanings: http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PW&L=J&T=shi&WC=none&FG=r&BG=b&S=26 Well, could you please show them to the guild? Your link seems to have issues, with loading up
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:49 am
Oddly enough, in Japan, on each fourth of the month, there are more deaths of people and even of babies born on the fourth, too.
[There's also the year, called Fire Dragon (or something like that), and women born in this year turn out to be most "unlucky," and it also has more deaths occur- both in new-borns and older people.]
It's like in English-- you saw the saw?
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:54 pm
Thay have different kanji, and four can also be 'yon'. But in Japan, four is a superstitious number because it means death. No rooms in hospitals have a four in them, and the same is for floors of a building(I think). Just like thirteen in America, but even more so. And, instead of saying 'shisai' for four years old, one says 'yonsai', because 'shisai' means dead person. I hope this helps.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:00 am
Hey, wow the Chinese also make that same connection with death and the number four. In Chinese culture is considered a very unlucky number and is associated with death. No surprises that the morgue of a Chinese hospital is often level four. Ha ha actually to the truth this is just what my Chinese teacher told me when I was primary school.
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