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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:46 pm
Browsing Wikipedia for random bits of information, I came across this paragraph in the article on Baldr, son of Odin. I'm not going to post the whole paragraph, as it's somewhat long.Quote: The legendary death of Baldr resembles the legendary death of the Persian hero Esfandyar in the epic Shahnameh... ...It may also be compared to how Lilith tricked Cain into killing Abel in traditions on the origin of blood magick, and, at a stretch, the murder of Osiris by Set in Egyptian mythology. Parallels with Mithras have also been proposed. Following a double-take on my part. Where did this come from? I promptly browsed other articles relating to Cain and Lilith specifically, and could not find any details on this particular detail. There were some bits linking Cain and Lilith, but there was nothing of the sort where the scenario was Lilith tricking Cain. But anyway. I know that Wikipedia has a lot of fuzzy little inaccurate bits of information, and this may just be one of them.
But I'm still curious. I was wondering if any experts on this sort of thing, either blood magick, as the paragraph suggests, or just someone who knows where to find the origin of this story. It may just not exist, so feel free to post your thoughts on the paragraph mentioned above, and the topics it relates to, even if they're not concerned with Cain and Lilith.
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:13 pm
Well, there's no source cited next to that little tidbit (the next cited source talks about Mithras), and I couldn't find much from google, so I'd say it's nonexistant.
Although if this story does exist, what would that imply?
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:17 pm
Well, probably that Lilith is the origin of blood magick, as well as all the demon s**t she's responsible for, and it also means the death of Abel was not just vengence on a sacrifice, but something much more, with a magick and spell effect that we can only guess at the conseqences of.
However, Lilith, queen of demons and blood magick? She's hot. I'd hit it.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:14 am
Mitsh Well, there's no source cited next to that little tidbit (the next cited source talks about Mithras), and I couldn't find much from google, so I'd say it's nonexistant. Although if this story does exist, what would that imply? I noticed that, having too googled and looked for a source, which is particularly why I asked here. The few things that I found linking Lilith and Cain involved Lilith forcing herself on him and siring demons, including one version of that in World of Darkness. If it's only restricted to that actuality, I apologize.
As for what it could imply, that would depend on the contents of the myth, if it exists, which it doesn't, apparently. I was curious enough to ask because I felt like starting a new thread, and as for why I asked would be a personal matter, having identified myself with Cain and someone else as Lilith previously. So the situation described in the paragraph struck a chord, in some respect.
Edit: 100th post. That took a while.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:28 am
Subrosian
Edit: 100th post. That took a while.You've been added to the honor list 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:37 am
LoBo_23 Subrosian Edit: 100th post. That took a while.You've been added to the honor list 3nodding Sweeeet. I love you all. D:
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:20 pm
It sounds like if this is a myth at all, it's probably a more modern construct of a myth. I have a hard time relating to stuff about lilitth because I've never known her as a demon. In fact, some Jewish Pagans worship her as their goddess.
However, the nation of Israel was also heavily influenced by the greeks, where their god are much more prone to trickery and the like. Therefore it is also quite possible that this is a jewish myth influenced by the greeks. (The Jews didn't have a holy text until after the assyrians kicked them out of Israel, so there is the potential for a lot of myths being passed around verbally. In addition to this, the Gentiles took on parts of other religions, so the myth could even come out of the Gentiles during that time period.)
I don't know, it's something to think about. Just because google doesn't have something on it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. it just means not very many people are talking about it. If I were really interested in this, my next stop would be a big public library with a good section on mythology and religion.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:23 pm
Sounds like lore from Vampire the Masquerade, to me.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:32 pm
I've never read nor heard (until now) anything about Lilith tricking Cain into killing Abel. The story as I know it always involved Lilith not submitting to Adam, being cast out of Eden, then later on after Cain kills Abel, Cain gets exiled from Eden. Cain settles in a region called "Nod" and that's where he meets up with Lilith.
So in my limited research into the subject I've never seen any mention of Lilith being the catalyst for Abel's murder, nor anything relating to the origin of blood magic.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:36 pm
Blind Guardian the 2nd Sounds like lore from Vampire the Masquerade, to me. Hah. I'll worship made up gods, and I wouldn't touch that s**t with a 39 & 1/2 pole.
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:07 pm
Blind Guardian the 2nd Sounds like lore from Vampire the Masquerade, to me. I believe it is, Cain happened to be the first vampire, and the story is quite popular in WoD, it could be that a fan who knew nothing of the real story of Lilith put that on there. after all, it IS wikipedia.
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:51 pm
Well, my curiosity on this subject has been satiated. It's overly obvious by now that it was an error on some editor's part. Thanks for submitting your input, guys. >.o
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:35 pm
This sounds interesting...I shall look into it.But all I know is-
Blood magik is really dangerous(I think) Lilith is an angle.(Thank you Evangelion for telling me that!Yay anime...)
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:53 am
Dark_of_Niwa This sounds interesting...I shall look into it.But all I know is- Blood magik is really dangerous(I think) Lilith is an angle.(Thank you Evangelion for telling me that!Yay anime...) Actually, the story is that Lilith was the first female created (right along side Adam), and she refused to be subordinate to Adam like she was supposed to(reasonably enough; created at the same time and all). She got kicked out, got picked up by Satan, and supposedly became the mother of many demons and such. ^_^
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:00 pm
Joshua_Ritter Blind Guardian the 2nd Sounds like lore from Vampire the Masquerade, to me. Hah. I'll worship made up gods, and I wouldn't touch that s**t with a 39 & 1/2 pole.Hey, it's a good game. Well, not Vampire strictly. I mean World of Darkness roleplaying games as a rule.
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