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I would like everyones opinion on the new plan called "Intelligent Design". If you don't know about it yet, then let me explain. George W. Bush (I call him Georgey) thought of a brilliant way to brainwash the young ones of todays education system into believing in God by forcing the schools to teach about God and the Bible in Science Class.

When I say brainwash, I don't mean any offense to those who believe in God. I am a believer myself. But...now correct me if I'm wrong...the pilgrims who sailed her to America to find a new home did it because they wanted freedom of religion. What if the Wiccan parents of a child send their child to school, and the school teaches them about God? That would kinda urk the parents and cause a possible lawsuit.

Plus, aside from that fact, religion has no place in a science class whatsoever. The whole point of religion is to reject science, so it has no right to be shared in the same classroom.

Funny pics of the subject in my sig.

ok, so "intelligent design" may or may not be ok depending on what they're *really* referring to. because if the teachers start using bible quotes and sneaking jesus into the curriculum I would have *serious* issues. but if on the off chance it is just a new term for evolution without being specific as to who's or what intelligence it might be, then I guess I'd be ok with that.

namida is right in the fact that evolution is a theory, although the evidence is astronomical toward it being accurate. still holes of course, but it's got a lot more to back it up than religion does.

Actually, evolution in itself is a fact. Evolution of man however is a different story. Tests were taken on ameoba, which in turn evolved over set years and adapted to the new conditions.

As for you question about my sig, I'm not saying that evolution of man is FACT. Like I said, I'm a believer in the Almighty. But, as it stands, when they teach evolution in class, they are not saying that man came from apes. Never in my many years of schooling have I run into a science teacher that said that. What they teach us is that we and all lifeforms like us are able to adapt to new environments. Such as different races, like Africans. Africans have to indure intense heat from the sun, thus their skin is dark so that they can stand the intense heat. Whereas, the Bible says that Able's brother Cain was cursed with black skin when he killed his brother. Out of the two, I would say that the former was a little more believable.

What I am saying is this. I believe in God. But that still doesn't mean that it should be taught in Science Class. Nor should the Evolution of Man be taught, because niether of them can be proved.

there is a LOT of evidence pointing to a common ancestry in varying species. "astronomical" was a figure of speech. there are still holes in this theory, but hey, that's why it IS a theory. and as I said in another post, it makes more sense to me than the idea that everything that is today was always the same from the beginning. at this point, how else are we to view darwins findings? just because it has holes doesnt mean they wont be filled in time. science doesnt know everything, as it finds out new things all the time which changes previous ideas.

Sorry?



.... If evolution is fact, then tell me this. Why haven't the others that we evolved from advanced as well? Why are there still apes in the world, when the rest of us have lightyears of evolution ahead of them. Yeah, sure, it was proven that the DNA difference between man and ape was only 2%. But its still that 2% that gave us Einstein, Martin Luther King Jr., Niel Armstrong, and Edgar Allen Poe.



This was just pointless...



You want your documentation, then find it. We are not here to prove anything to anyone, we are here to discuss the issue of Intelligent Design. Besides, just because its widely used doesn't mean that every school across America has it. My schools didn't have Miller & Levine books.



Religion is believed in out of humanity looking for something to look forward to in death. It is my belief that without the "guidance" of such a God, then most of humanity would be in chaos.

Evolution is believed in because of theory. It isn't proved. You can't tell if something is descended from another species by DNA testing. Though a species may be very similar to another in DNA, it can't be proven that evolution is real until we can take that small percent from a species and change it.



Key word, common decent. Many species on this planet are related. Such as wolves and dog, humans and apes, ect. But just because we have common DNA doesn't supply proof that we ascended from that species.



And you are supplying theories as proof. If the theory was prooven, then what would be the point of religion anymore? That would immediately dispell any chance of God being real.



Well, where is your proof that they have?



Actually, the point of science is to turn theory into fact. Sure, we may not really know if the world is made up of atoms. But at least the overwhelming evidence satisfies us as proof enough. Whereas with evolution, you don't have the overwhelming evidence.




No comment.



Religion (ID is a seperate matter) is not proven. It takes a shitload of faith to have religion. But barring it from existense because we have a theory is no different than saying "I don't want to believe in you because this has more proof." If you want to believe in evolution fine! If you want to believe in God, thats okay! But the fact is that you have no proof that God is false, nor do you have solid proof that evolution is more than a theory.

Intelligent Design has been around since 1987 when Creationism was ruled unconstitutional in the Supreme Court case Edwards v. Augillard. Long before Bush was in office.

This is about as intelligent as asking, "If Americans came from Europe, why are there still the French?"

It shows you just have no idea how evolution works. Ignorance is not an argument.

Point being? In no way does this support any claim you've made.

You made the claim. The burden of proof lies on you. A review in 2005 of all major texts used in the US revealed that none of them stated that evolution was anything other than a theory. It's presented without any others contrasting it (which is why I suspect you think it's being taught as fact) because there are no other scientific theories.

You missed what I was trying to say: Nothing in science is proven. It can only be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. This is done by collecting supporting evidence that is not based in logical fallacies. Evolution meets this criteria overwhelmingly. ID/Creationism does not because it makes no testable hypothesis which can be checked against evidence.

DNA doesn't prove common descent. It supports it because evolution makes a prediction that we share a very close common ancestor to the great ape family. We can test that by looking at the DNA. If it's close, that is in line with the hypothesis. If it were wildly disparate, it would completely disprove that part of evolution. But that's not nearly the only way we can support evolution. I provided a link in my last post with more ways, but it seems you ignored that. Given that, in this Guild the motto is "ignorance is NOT bliss", I think you're in the wrong place.

Again, I never claimed that was the only supporting evidence. Common descent is demonstrated through the fossil record as well as DNA, morpohological similarities, shared vestigial organs, etc....

No. I'm supplying theories as theories. You don't seem to have any clue what that means in science. A scientific theory (like gravity, or evolution) means, "so well supported that it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt."

Additionally, if evolution is true, it does not disprove God. Many people believe that Evolution is God's method of Creation. I suggest you pick up the book Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller. It's written by a renowned biologist who is also a devout Catholic. You may also want to look into the Clergy letter project, which is signed by over 10,000 clergy members stating that they find no problem accepting both God and Evolution.

Your bifurcation is a logical fallacy.

Namida made the first claim. As soon as they provide their source, I'll show how it's false. Until then, the burden of proof remains on them. Unless you feel like picking it up.

No. Evolution does have the evidence. You're just (willfully) ignorant of it. I provided a link earlier. Perhaps you should review it.

Again, you're misportraying what science is and how it works. It looks like you need to go back to elementary school and do some review.

Also, your insinuation that ID is a separate matter from religion is also false. ID is religion. Again, see the Kitzmiller v. Dover case I referred to in my last post.

why does 'proof' have to be required in order to discuss the topic? as I see it, information has been provided supporting the theory of evolution and why it is more appropriate to teach in school science classes than a religious mythology. every religion has a creation myth. which would they choose to teach in schools? the myth of Genesis is no more or less valid than the greek creation myth, or the norse and teutonic creation myths, or the native american, egyptian, or hindu creation myths. and either none of them or ALL of them should be taught in schools, and if any or all were all taught, it shouldnt be in a science class, but a mythology and comparative world religion class. this would be most appropriate, and I'd be all for it. mythology should NOT be taught as science.