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Mordreds_Torment

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:41 am


I think the more they struggle the better, the more they resist just makes the end product so much more real. Sometimes the authors get to them enjoying the circumstances way too soon and with that its just like seeing any normal girl at that point.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:55 am


Kojiro Jogakusei
I think the more they struggle the better, the more they resist just makes the end product so much more real. Sometimes the authors get to them enjoying the circumstances way too soon and with that its just like seeing any normal girl at that point.

I'm guessing you like Abstract Gender then?

Olorin90


Kaosgirl
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:38 pm


Olorin90
Kojiro Jogakusei
I think the more they struggle the better, the more they resist just makes the end product so much more real. Sometimes the authors get to them enjoying the circumstances way too soon and with that its just like seeing any normal girl at that point.

I'm guessing you like Abstract Gender then?


I dunno if I'd say that Ryan/Rachel really struggles or resists. He sort of acts more like a sullen teenager than a defiant one.
Ash, from Misfile, resists.
Meg from Cheeky Angel actually fought... (tho ironically, of these three Meg put up the least resistance on the clothing and appearance front...)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:06 am


oh. Well I thought Ryan/Rachel resists alot..... I thought Ash from Misfile became a Lesbian?

Olorin90


Kaosgirl
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:41 am


Olorin90
oh. Well I thought Ryan/Rachel resists alot..... I thought Ash from Misfile became a Lesbian?


Ryan sort of sulks while doing the bare minimum to fit in as Rachel, but doesn't (IMO anyway) seem to do much towards retaining 'Ryan.' He lets himself get dragged out on a 'girly' trip to the spa, but again is just sort of... there, neither making a real protest nor getting into the moment. Wearing a suit to he funeral was the closest thing I've seen to real resistance.

Ash... is still attracted to girls, yes (I can't say he's a lesbian, but I think we agreed to disagree on the label thing already anyway.) But Ash still tries to maintain his male identity, he still does all the things he'd do as a boy; and when forced to do girl things like shopping for a bra, he tries to do it as boyishly as possible.

Just my interpretation, of course.
(Then there's Cheer!, which is like at the exact opposite end of the spectrum...)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:53 pm


Quote:
I think the more they struggle the better, the more they resist just makes the end product so much more real


Do not struggle, it will only make it harder!

Silence of the Clams
Vice Captain


ssokolow

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:00 pm


Kojiro Jogakusei
I think the more they struggle the better, the more they resist just makes the end product so much more real. Sometimes the authors get to them enjoying the circumstances way too soon and with that its just like seeing any normal girl at that point.


I sort of agree. I almost don't care what I'm reading as long as it involves detailed and realistic character reactions to unusual circumstances. (which is why, when acceptance sets in, they'd better re-hook my attention quickly if they want me to keep reading)

For that reason, the more uncommon the transformation, the better and as such, reversible female-to-male transformations are the best because they're the rarest ("reversible" meaning something that flip-flops like Ranma's curse) and because they give plenty of opportunities to see how other people react... potentially in large numbers.

I also (to a lesser extent because it's less psychologically focused) enjoy stories where scientifically grounded modern society is introduced to magic.

Kaosgirl

Ash... is still attracted to girls, yes (I can't say he's a lesbian, but I think we agreed to disagree on the label thing already anyway.)


Use the label the El Goonish Forums crowd cooked up. Gynosexual. (Attracted to girls, regardless of what they are)

Silence of the Clams
Quote:
I think the more they struggle the better, the more they resist just makes the end product so much more real


Do not struggle, it will only make it harder!


To me, it's not struggle that matters but realism.

I suppose the simplest way to say it is that there's a sweet spot of "medium-to-high struggle" which corresponds to accurate response for a realistic member of of a given society

...but I also enjoy stories where the person can flip back and forth at will because, if they're well written, then one or more of the following will apply:
- They'll struggle against uncontrollable triggering of the change by making a mountain out of a molehill... and I get to explore why. (eg. "The Virus", a Ranma fanfic where everyone on earth (and people in many different anime series) gets Ranma's curse so it's just an annoyance, but some characters have issues they need to resolve)
- It'll be fun to watch how other people react even if the main character doesn't struggle against the change.

Vashu Is Not A Pervert

3. Accepting: i really like it when they finally come to a conclusion that they are stuck as a girl, no going back etc, thats why i tend to frown upon stories that are like, "ok lets switch back now" the end, i like it to be like: oh god, the medallion! its gone!!!! *evil grin*


My big reason for hating both of those choices is that they're both flat an un-interesting. No character growth and development in either of your examples. (Makes me think of how people make fun of "Nooooo!" from Star Wars episode 3)

Kaosgirl

I like the emo, I guess. I like to see people defying their situations, struggling with the consequences; winning some and losing some, but still trying to make their own terms.

I like a character I can sympathize with somehow. To see them grow and develop, but still stay true to the core of who they are (however that's defined.)

And I like to see a purpose behind the change, not just have it be some random thing that happens. (One of the things that makes the kashimashi manga better than the anime, is that the manga explains why they made Hazumu a girl but the anime just sort of makes it seem they just flipped a coin or something.)


Agreed. I don't like the connotations of abbreviating emotions to "emo" and I observe rather than sympathize, but I'm definitely big on the "grow and develop but stay true" part. Partly because so many people are misogynistic enough to assume that gender roles are somehow genetic and that makes for terrible fiction.

However, I much preferred the Kashimashi anime because I didn't like how dark the threat of fated death makes the manga. The anime has a nice light cheeriness to it. I just excused the lack of explanation for the gender-swap as somehow related to the fact that men have a karyotype of 46,XY and women have 46,XX. (accidentally introduce a bit more symmetry into a male genome and you get a female one)
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