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 Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:49 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx It's not anything the same considering the nature of the Bible and the nature of the Lord of the Rings. LotR was clearly written as a fantasy whereas the Bible from the start was written to record the Jewish history. It has genealogies (sp?) and was considered sacred, not just some fantastic book. I'm not saying the evidence is enough that skeptics can't deny it, but as the Holocaust deniers prove, people can take skepticism too far. I'm not saying it compares either, but that doesn't mean I've seen any real good reason to deny that Jesus existed except to be difficult. And I never said I didn't believe there weren't Islamic miracles, but I from what I can recall, Muhammed didn't perform any, and I think evil spirits did those miracles to lead people away from Christ.
I can't believe in Jesus because all the evidence there is is a book written a long time ago. That isn't enough for me at all.
Muhammad did perform a few good miracles such as the girl who cried sharp crystals. Point being, I was implying that a belief can't be pushed by miracles. I still think the comparison is off. I don't see why not, but fine. Besides, it's not the only evidence. There's also testimonies of really incredible things, like this true story I'm reading right now about a man who died for ten minutes. It'd take me too long to summarize what I got from that book, but it really cements my faith. There's so many experiences like that though, it's hard to believe it could be something like a mass of delusions and lies. Again, I don't see why not. Something has to explain the unexplainable.
Your describing Genosis and usually those are just hog-wash experiences invented by the mind or some imagined bs. There are tons of books like that and from different religions. One book stated everyone up there was animals yet another describes everyone up their could do anything, even try to kill one another. Each book has a different experience with each conflicting ideas.
Reason why I like science. It makes sense of the unexplainable so it isn't so unexplainable anymore. Atleast it is better than saying "God did it". I remember when Science explained how someone survived falling off a 50 foot building. Made more sense than saying God was with him.Hnnn... That's simplyfying it too much. There is truth, and it is knowable, and based on the fact that there's thousands, if not millions of stories of Christians turning around, based on the fact that the people who have died and come back see Jesus and say their experiences are more real then those earth, I don't see a good reason to be skeptical of the Bible. Except science doesn't have all the answers, science and faith can work together, and even science admits there's things it can't explain or that it's wrong about. How often have we heard they're wrong about something or other? Science has it's place, but it's not to be in place of religion. And I love the facepalm. lol
Science has things it can't answer because we have not figured out EVERY LAST fact of life. That would be like asking a caveman what an atom contains. Science isn't complete and therefor does not have every last answer.
Religion and Science can't coexist. If that is the case, God can't create matter out of nothing. But he did. Well geez...
Why not? Science has had some pretty good theories as to how we could have been created without a God and they make more sense than any religion I have heard stating how a God creating everything.
EDIT: That is what is said when a theory is disproven and usually it doesn't happen too often. But it is a good thing because when it turns out it is wrong on one subject, we find an answer out of that wrong. Just because Science is wrong once in a while doesn't mean we should all jump ship.
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:59 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx It's not anything the same considering the nature of the Bible and the nature of the Lord of the Rings. LotR was clearly written as a fantasy whereas the Bible from the start was written to record the Jewish history. It has genealogies (sp?) and was considered sacred, not just some fantastic book. I'm not saying the evidence is enough that skeptics can't deny it, but as the Holocaust deniers prove, people can take skepticism too far. I'm not saying it compares either, but that doesn't mean I've seen any real good reason to deny that Jesus existed except to be difficult. And I never said I didn't believe there weren't Islamic miracles, but I from what I can recall, Muhammed didn't perform any, and I think evil spirits did those miracles to lead people away from Christ.
I can't believe in Jesus because all the evidence there is is a book written a long time ago. That isn't enough for me at all.
Muhammad did perform a few good miracles such as the girl who cried sharp crystals. Point being, I was implying that a belief can't be pushed by miracles. I still think the comparison is off. I don't see why not, but fine. Besides, it's not the only evidence. There's also testimonies of really incredible things, like this true story I'm reading right now about a man who died for ten minutes. It'd take me too long to summarize what I got from that book, but it really cements my faith. There's so many experiences like that though, it's hard to believe it could be something like a mass of delusions and lies. Again, I don't see why not. Something has to explain the unexplainable.
Your describing Genosis and usually those are just hog-wash experiences invented by the mind or some imagined bs. There are tons of books like that and from different religions. One book stated everyone up there was animals yet another describes everyone up their could do anything, even try to kill one another. Each book has a different experience with each conflicting ideas.
Reason why I like science. It makes sense of the unexplainable so it isn't so unexplainable anymore. Atleast it is better than saying "God did it". I remember when Science explained how someone survived falling off a 50 foot building. Made more sense than saying God was with him.Hnnn... That's simplyfying it too much. There is truth, and it is knowable, and based on the fact that there's thousands, if not millions of stories of Christians turning around, based on the fact that the people who have died and come back see Jesus and say their experiences are more real then those earth, I don't see a good reason to be skeptical of the Bible. Except science doesn't have all the answers, science and faith can work together, and even science admits there's things it can't explain or that it's wrong about. How often have we heard they're wrong about something or other? Science has it's place, but it's not to be in place of religion. And I love the facepalm. lol
Science has things it can't answer because we have not figured out EVERY LAST fact of life. That would be like asking a caveman what an atom contains. Science isn't complete and therefor does not have every last answer.
Religion and Science can't coexist. If that is the case, God can't create matter out of nothing. But he did. Well geez...
Why not? Science has had some pretty good theories as to how we could have been created without a God and they make more sense than any religion I have heard stating how a God creating everything.I don't think you'd think it was just their thoughts if you read the stories, or that they were delusional or lying. Even if you did think that, I believe them. The tone was too honest, the experience too different from what one would expect to believe otherwise. And no, the ideas weren't different or conflicting. They were actually all slightly different, but they fit together. I have every reason to believe so... So we can't argue over that fact because both of us acknowledge science doesn't have all the answers. ^^ God created the scientific laws, and the order by which the universe was created. Actually, the first scientists were, ironically, driven by religion. Isn't that strange? They still don't know what kicked off the Big Bang. wink Plus, science explains the how of things, while religion explains the why. They can overlap very neatly, but they can't fulfill each others roles. They weren't meant to.
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:08 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx confused I still think the comparison is off. I don't see why not, but fine. Besides, it's not the only evidence. There's also testimonies of really incredible things, like this true story I'm reading right now about a man who died for ten minutes. It'd take me too long to summarize what I got from that book, but it really cements my faith. There's so many experiences like that though, it's hard to believe it could be something like a mass of delusions and lies. Again, I don't see why not. Something has to explain the unexplainable.
Your describing Genosis and usually those are just hog-wash experiences invented by the mind or some imagined bs. There are tons of books like that and from different religions. One book stated everyone up there was animals yet another describes everyone up their could do anything, even try to kill one another. Each book has a different experience with each conflicting ideas.
Reason why I like science. It makes sense of the unexplainable so it isn't so unexplainable anymore. Atleast it is better than saying "God did it". I remember when Science explained how someone survived falling off a 50 foot building. Made more sense than saying God was with him.Hnnn... That's simplyfying it too much. There is truth, and it is knowable, and based on the fact that there's thousands, if not millions of stories of Christians turning around, based on the fact that the people who have died and come back see Jesus and say their experiences are more real then those earth, I don't see a good reason to be skeptical of the Bible. Except science doesn't have all the answers, science and faith can work together, and even science admits there's things it can't explain or that it's wrong about. How often have we heard they're wrong about something or other? Science has it's place, but it's not to be in place of religion. And I love the facepalm. lol
Science has things it can't answer because we have not figured out EVERY LAST fact of life. That would be like asking a caveman what an atom contains. Science isn't complete and therefor does not have every last answer.
Religion and Science can't coexist. If that is the case, God can't create matter out of nothing. But he did. Well geez...
Why not? Science has had some pretty good theories as to how we could have been created without a God and they make more sense than any religion I have heard stating how a God creating everything.I don't think you'd think it was just their thoughts if you read the stories, or that they were delusional or lying. Even if you did think that, I believe them. The tone was too honest, the experience too different from what one would expect to believe otherwise. And no, the ideas weren't different or conflicting. They were actually all slightly different, but they fit together. I have every reason to believe so... So we can't argue over that fact because both of us acknowledge science doesn't have all the answers. ^^ God created the scientific laws, and the order by which the universe was created. Actually, the first scientists were, ironically, driven by religion. Isn't that strange? They still don't know what kicked off the Big Bang. wink Plus, science explains the how of things, while religion explains the why. They can overlap very neatly, but they can't fulfill each others roles. They weren't meant to.
*Also, how can you tell me what stories match with what if you haven't heard all of them? >U> I just told you awhile ago a guy said heaven was a place where people shot one another and couldn't die.*
So no, I have STILL no reason to believe so...
Science doesn't have all the answers currently.
CUR-REN-TLY.
That doesn't mean Science is nothing yet.
What are you babbling about? The Big Bang was a Scientific Theory so of course they don't know what kicked it off. HOWEVER, they have a good idea what started it and, as I recall, we argued about this before if you've already forgotten...
Scientists were driven by religion because it couldn't answer questions they asked. That's a bad thing. :
None of those has any of what you described.
Religion supplies a comfort for what happens after death, a possible reasoning. It doesn't give any 'why' and doesn't explain anything.
Science gives an understandable and explainable reason for things such as why a tree falls, why lightning occurs, etc...
God may have created the Scientific Laws but he can't just break them because you say he can. I don't care how powerful he is, that power makes him unreal to me.
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:20 pm
s**t.
You'll have to excuse the cursing but that's my only reaction. And I was just debating whether or not Mengele was the most evil b*****d that ever lived...
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 3:45 pm
Captain_Shinzo Sashaajnin Can we plz get back on topic, this is talking about holicaust denial, not jesus denial. Every one here is shouting about how horrible it is that people dont believe in the holicaust, but have anyone of you even bothered to consider why some people dont believe in the holicaust. Its not because their insane, or radicals. Its because thats how they were raised. Some people who were raised to believe Jesus was g-ds son, will argue on their life that Jesus is g-d's son. Its just how they were raised, so instead of screamin your heads off about it, educate them. Show them evidence. But be patiant, this is the truth they know, so its gonna take a while to change their mind, if your able to change it at all.
EDIT:
Currently, I'm trying to educate a Nazi to understand everyone is equal but it seems to stand that only whites are equal and everyone else is lazy or just stupid and steals things. You can't just educate everyone, this isn't the perfect world.
Let's also not forget this is the DEBATE guild, so of course we are trying to "educate" people. Whether they want to listen and take into consideration is their problem and, in all honesty, most in the guild will reject objecting views for personal or mental gain.I'm not saying to assume that every one was just raised that way. I'm just reminding people that thats the way it is for some people. And dont dare even think I'm saying the KKK are just missunderstood.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:48 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But the reason is still good.
Your describing Genosis and usually those are just hog-wash experiences invented by the mind or some imagined bs. There are tons of books like that and from different religions. One book stated everyone up there was animals yet another describes everyone up their could do anything, even try to kill one another. Each book has a different experience with each conflicting ideas.
Reason why I like science. It makes sense of the unexplainable so it isn't so unexplainable anymore. Atleast it is better than saying "God did it". I remember when Science explained how someone survived falling off a 50 foot building. Made more sense than saying God was with him. Hnnn... That's simplyfying it too much. There is truth, and it is knowable, and based on the fact that there's thousands, if not millions of stories of Christians turning around, based on the fact that the people who have died and come back see Jesus and say their experiences are more real then those earth, I don't see a good reason to be skeptical of the Bible. Except science doesn't have all the answers, science and faith can work together, and even science admits there's things it can't explain or that it's wrong about. How often have we heard they're wrong about something or other? Science has it's place, but it's not to be in place of religion. And I love the facepalm. lol
Science has things it can't answer because we have not figured out EVERY LAST fact of life. That would be like asking a caveman what an atom contains. Science isn't complete and therefor does not have every last answer.
Religion and Science can't coexist. If that is the case, God can't create matter out of nothing. But he did. Well geez...
Why not? Science has had some pretty good theories as to how we could have been created without a God and they make more sense than any religion I have heard stating how a God creating everything.I don't think you'd think it was just their thoughts if you read the stories, or that they were delusional or lying. Even if you did think that, I believe them. The tone was too honest, the experience too different from what one would expect to believe otherwise. And no, the ideas weren't different or conflicting. They were actually all slightly different, but they fit together. I have every reason to believe so... So we can't argue over that fact because both of us acknowledge science doesn't have all the answers. ^^ God created the scientific laws, and the order by which the universe was created. Actually, the first scientists were, ironically, driven by religion. Isn't that strange? They still don't know what kicked off the Big Bang. wink Plus, science explains the how of things, while religion explains the why. They can overlap very neatly, but they can't fulfill each others roles. They weren't meant to.
*Also, how can you tell me what stories match with what if you haven't heard all of them? >U> I just told you awhile ago a guy said heaven was a place where people shot one another and couldn't die.*
So no, I have STILL no reason to believe so...
Science doesn't have all the answers currently.
CUR-REN-TLY.
That doesn't mean Science is nothing yet.
What are you babbling about? The Big Bang was a Scientific Theory so of course they don't know what kicked it off. HOWEVER, they have a good idea what started it and, as I recall, we argued about this before if you've already forgotten...
Scientists were driven by religion because it couldn't answer questions they asked. That's a bad thing. :
None of those has any of what you described.
Religion supplies a comfort for what happens after death, a possible reasoning. It doesn't give any 'why' and doesn't explain anything.
Science gives an understandable and explainable reason for things such as why a tree falls, why lightning occurs, etc...
God may have created the Scientific Laws but he can't just break them because you say he can. I don't care how powerful he is, that power makes him unreal to me.You think they're all lying? That's great for you then. rolleyes Because I haven't seen any other stories yet, and I don't think you told me that story. >< And it's more likely what that guy saw was Hell and not Heaven so... I didn't say science is nothing, but you can't base everything on it. That's not what it's for. I probably have forgotten. Bad memory. XD And they have no idea what started it. It's not a bad thing, and that's not why they were driven by religion. Quote: Science, as we have seen, to be a means of finding truth, requires a certain faith that the universe manifests a deep rational order that we as human beings can understand. Christianity maintains that the universe was created by God to reflect His glory and that as human beings we have been created in God's image with the capacity to understand how it does so. And when we look at the universe from a scientific point of view, when we probe into the depths of reality, we find that the universe does seem to resonate deeply with certain structures in our own minds, such as mathematics and even some of our conceptions of beauty. We find that the universe is, in fact, a beautiful place, and that the laws which underlie it are both simple and eloquent. Einstein once remarked that the most unintelligible thing about the universe is the fact that it is intelligible. This amazing fact is perfectly understandable in light of a Christian worldview, however. And from a personal perspective, I can say that one of the things that draws me to science, is that through it, I acquire a new appreciation for the glory of God that manifests itself in creation. I does give answers to 'why', like why are we here? Because God wanted us. Why does the univers have order? Because God designed it to. The answers might depend on faith in God, but it still answers whys. It doesn't matter whether I say He can, if He's omnipotent He can break them. If He's not, He's not God.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:19 pm
Sashaajnin Captain_Shinzo Sashaajnin Can we plz get back on topic, this is talking about holicaust denial, not jesus denial. Every one here is shouting about how horrible it is that people dont believe in the holicaust, but have anyone of you even bothered to consider why some people dont believe in the holicaust. Its not because their insane, or radicals. Its because thats how they were raised. Some people who were raised to believe Jesus was g-ds son, will argue on their life that Jesus is g-d's son. Its just how they were raised, so instead of screamin your heads off about it, educate them. Show them evidence. But be patiant, this is the truth they know, so its gonna take a while to change their mind, if your able to change it at all.
EDIT:
Currently, I'm trying to educate a Nazi to understand everyone is equal but it seems to stand that only whites are equal and everyone else is lazy or just stupid and steals things. You can't just educate everyone, this isn't the perfect world.
Let's also not forget this is the DEBATE guild, so of course we are trying to "educate" people. Whether they want to listen and take into consideration is their problem and, in all honesty, most in the guild will reject objecting views for personal or mental gain.I'm not saying to assume that every one was just raised that way. I'm just reminding people that thats the way it is for some people. And dont dare even think I'm saying the KKK are just missunderstood.
and the KKK was just an example, nothing more.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:24 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Hnnn... That's simplyfying it too much. There is truth, and it is knowable, and based on the fact that there's thousands, if not millions of stories of Christians turning around, based on the fact that the people who have died and come back see Jesus and say their experiences are more real then those earth, I don't see a good reason to be skeptical of the Bible. Except science doesn't have all the answers, science and faith can work together, and even science admits there's things it can't explain or that it's wrong about. How often have we heard they're wrong about something or other? Science has it's place, but it's not to be in place of religion. And I love the facepalm. lol
Science has things it can't answer because we have not figured out EVERY LAST fact of life. That would be like asking a caveman what an atom contains. Science isn't complete and therefor does not have every last answer.
Religion and Science can't coexist. If that is the case, God can't create matter out of nothing. But he did. Well geez...
Why not? Science has had some pretty good theories as to how we could have been created without a God and they make more sense than any religion I have heard stating how a God creating everything.I don't think you'd think it was just their thoughts if you read the stories, or that they were delusional or lying. Even if you did think that, I believe them. The tone was too honest, the experience too different from what one would expect to believe otherwise. And no, the ideas weren't different or conflicting. They were actually all slightly different, but they fit together. I have every reason to believe so... So we can't argue over that fact because both of us acknowledge science doesn't have all the answers. ^^ God created the scientific laws, and the order by which the universe was created. Actually, the first scientists were, ironically, driven by religion. Isn't that strange? They still don't know what kicked off the Big Bang. wink Plus, science explains the how of things, while religion explains the why. They can overlap very neatly, but they can't fulfill each others roles. They weren't meant to.
*Also, how can you tell me what stories match with what if you haven't heard all of them? >U> I just told you awhile ago a guy said heaven was a place where people shot one another and couldn't die.*
So no, I have STILL no reason to believe so...
Science doesn't have all the answers currently.
CUR-REN-TLY.
That doesn't mean Science is nothing yet.
What are you babbling about? The Big Bang was a Scientific Theory so of course they don't know what kicked it off. HOWEVER, they have a good idea what started it and, as I recall, we argued about this before if you've already forgotten...
Scientists were driven by religion because it couldn't answer questions they asked. That's a bad thing. :
None of those has any of what you described.
Religion supplies a comfort for what happens after death, a possible reasoning. It doesn't give any 'why' and doesn't explain anything.
Science gives an understandable and explainable reason for things such as why a tree falls, why lightning occurs, etc...
God may have created the Scientific Laws but he can't just break them because you say he can. I don't care how powerful he is, that power makes him unreal to me.You think they're all lying? That's great for you then. rolleyes Because I haven't seen any other stories yet, and I don't think you told me that story. >< And it's more likely what that guy saw was Hell and not Heaven so... I didn't say science is nothing, but you can't base everything on it. That's not what it's for. I probably have forgotten. Bad memory. XD And they have no idea what started it. It's not a bad thing, and that's not why they were driven by religion. Quote: Science, as we have seen, to be a means of finding truth, requires a certain faith that the universe manifests a deep rational order that we as human beings can understand. Christianity maintains that the universe was created by God to reflect His glory and that as human beings we have been created in God's image with the capacity to understand how it does so. And when we look at the universe from a scientific point of view, when we probe into the depths of reality, we find that the universe does seem to resonate deeply with certain structures in our own minds, such as mathematics and even some of our conceptions of beauty. We find that the universe is, in fact, a beautiful place, and that the laws which underlie it are both simple and eloquent. Einstein once remarked that the most unintelligible thing about the universe is the fact that it is intelligible. This amazing fact is perfectly understandable in light of a Christian worldview, however. And from a personal perspective, I can say that one of the things that draws me to science, is that through it, I acquire a new appreciation for the glory of God that manifests itself in creation. I does give answers to 'why', like why are we here? Because God wanted us. Why does the univers have order? Because God designed it to. The answers might depend on faith in God, but it still answers whys. It doesn't matter whether I say He can, if He's omnipotent He can break them. If He's not, He's not God.
and no, the guy and everyone else was having fun SO that couldn't be hell. Last time I checked, hell wasn't so joyous.
I don't need to give you a story, just tell you of the different stories there are. You can easily look them up yourself.
Why doesn't really matter, though. Plus, Science answers "Why" too but in a more sensible manner, and it also answers "How".
Like, "How can a god exist without being made?"
Simple, there is no kind of god, and that is the only answer I have found. You may want to say religion answers the questions that give hope, but it didn't answer my questions of sense.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:32 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But the point is ALL OF THEM were Christian so they would think of something Christian related. However, that is if saying they are telling the truth. You can't argue majority over the fact each and everyone one of those experiences has an almost different and conflicting idea of heaven. I'm skeptical of the Bible because it is suppose to be evidence of God BUT writing is not evidence of God what-so-ever. I'm skeptical because I have no reason to believe in Christianity from what I was given.
Science has things it can't answer because we have not figured out EVERY LAST fact of life. That would be like asking a caveman what an atom contains. Science isn't complete and therefor does not have every last answer.
Religion and Science can't coexist. If that is the case, God can't create matter out of nothing. But he did. Well geez...
Why not? Science has had some pretty good theories as to how we could have been created without a God and they make more sense than any religion I have heard stating how a God creating everything. I don't think you'd think it was just their thoughts if you read the stories, or that they were delusional or lying. Even if you did think that, I believe them. The tone was too honest, the experience too different from what one would expect to believe otherwise. And no, the ideas weren't different or conflicting. They were actually all slightly different, but they fit together. I have every reason to believe so... So we can't argue over that fact because both of us acknowledge science doesn't have all the answers. ^^ God created the scientific laws, and the order by which the universe was created. Actually, the first scientists were, ironically, driven by religion. Isn't that strange? They still don't know what kicked off the Big Bang. wink Plus, science explains the how of things, while religion explains the why. They can overlap very neatly, but they can't fulfill each others roles. They weren't meant to.
*Also, how can you tell me what stories match with what if you haven't heard all of them? >U> I just told you awhile ago a guy said heaven was a place where people shot one another and couldn't die.*
So no, I have STILL no reason to believe so...
Science doesn't have all the answers currently.
CUR-REN-TLY.
That doesn't mean Science is nothing yet.
What are you babbling about? The Big Bang was a Scientific Theory so of course they don't know what kicked it off. HOWEVER, they have a good idea what started it and, as I recall, we argued about this before if you've already forgotten...
Scientists were driven by religion because it couldn't answer questions they asked. That's a bad thing. :
None of those has any of what you described.
Religion supplies a comfort for what happens after death, a possible reasoning. It doesn't give any 'why' and doesn't explain anything.
Science gives an understandable and explainable reason for things such as why a tree falls, why lightning occurs, etc...
God may have created the Scientific Laws but he can't just break them because you say he can. I don't care how powerful he is, that power makes him unreal to me.You think they're all lying? That's great for you then. rolleyes Because I haven't seen any other stories yet, and I don't think you told me that story. >< And it's more likely what that guy saw was Hell and not Heaven so... I didn't say science is nothing, but you can't base everything on it. That's not what it's for. I probably have forgotten. Bad memory. XD And they have no idea what started it. It's not a bad thing, and that's not why they were driven by religion. Quote: Science, as we have seen, to be a means of finding truth, requires a certain faith that the universe manifests a deep rational order that we as human beings can understand. Christianity maintains that the universe was created by God to reflect His glory and that as human beings we have been created in God's image with the capacity to understand how it does so. And when we look at the universe from a scientific point of view, when we probe into the depths of reality, we find that the universe does seem to resonate deeply with certain structures in our own minds, such as mathematics and even some of our conceptions of beauty. We find that the universe is, in fact, a beautiful place, and that the laws which underlie it are both simple and eloquent. Einstein once remarked that the most unintelligible thing about the universe is the fact that it is intelligible. This amazing fact is perfectly understandable in light of a Christian worldview, however. And from a personal perspective, I can say that one of the things that draws me to science, is that through it, I acquire a new appreciation for the glory of God that manifests itself in creation. I does give answers to 'why', like why are we here? Because God wanted us. Why does the univers have order? Because God designed it to. The answers might depend on faith in God, but it still answers whys. It doesn't matter whether I say He can, if He's omnipotent He can break them. If He's not, He's not God.
and no, the guy and everyone else was having fun SO that couldn't be hell. Last time I checked, hell wasn't so joyous.
I don't need to give you a story, just tell you of the different stories there are. You can easily look them up yourself.
Why doesn't really matter, though. Plus, Science answers "Why" too but in a more sensible manner, and it also answers "How".
Like, "How can a god exist without being made?"
Simple, there is no kind of god, and that is the only answer I have found. You may want to say religion answers the questions that give hope, but it didn't answer my questions of sense.Slightly different, and that's like saying I can't believe in life if everyone has different lives. XD It sounded like the Hell I read about in Return from Tomorrow. And yes, you do have to give a story if you want a decent argument. I'm not debating with myself about this, I'm debating with you. Why matters a lot. It matter more then how, because why gives everything else purpose. What whys does it answer? And I already said it answered hows, but not that one. wink It's not supposed to answer that one. And why do you get to define sense? Your sense makes little sense to me.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:52 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx I don't think you'd think it was just their thoughts if you read the stories, or that they were delusional or lying. Even if you did think that, I believe them. The tone was too honest, the experience too different from what one would expect to believe otherwise. And no, the ideas weren't different or conflicting. They were actually all slightly different, but they fit together. I have every reason to believe so... So we can't argue over that fact because both of us acknowledge science doesn't have all the answers. ^^ God created the scientific laws, and the order by which the universe was created. Actually, the first scientists were, ironically, driven by religion. Isn't that strange? They still don't know what kicked off the Big Bang. wink Plus, science explains the how of things, while religion explains the why. They can overlap very neatly, but they can't fulfill each others roles. They weren't meant to.
*Also, how can you tell me what stories match with what if you haven't heard all of them? >U> I just told you awhile ago a guy said heaven was a place where people shot one another and couldn't die.*
So no, I have STILL no reason to believe so...
Science doesn't have all the answers currently.
CUR-REN-TLY.
That doesn't mean Science is nothing yet.
What are you babbling about? The Big Bang was a Scientific Theory so of course they don't know what kicked it off. HOWEVER, they have a good idea what started it and, as I recall, we argued about this before if you've already forgotten...
Scientists were driven by religion because it couldn't answer questions they asked. That's a bad thing. :
None of those has any of what you described.
Religion supplies a comfort for what happens after death, a possible reasoning. It doesn't give any 'why' and doesn't explain anything.
Science gives an understandable and explainable reason for things such as why a tree falls, why lightning occurs, etc...
God may have created the Scientific Laws but he can't just break them because you say he can. I don't care how powerful he is, that power makes him unreal to me.You think they're all lying? That's great for you then. rolleyes Because I haven't seen any other stories yet, and I don't think you told me that story. >< And it's more likely what that guy saw was Hell and not Heaven so... I didn't say science is nothing, but you can't base everything on it. That's not what it's for. I probably have forgotten. Bad memory. XD And they have no idea what started it. It's not a bad thing, and that's not why they were driven by religion. Quote: Science, as we have seen, to be a means of finding truth, requires a certain faith that the universe manifests a deep rational order that we as human beings can understand. Christianity maintains that the universe was created by God to reflect His glory and that as human beings we have been created in God's image with the capacity to understand how it does so. And when we look at the universe from a scientific point of view, when we probe into the depths of reality, we find that the universe does seem to resonate deeply with certain structures in our own minds, such as mathematics and even some of our conceptions of beauty. We find that the universe is, in fact, a beautiful place, and that the laws which underlie it are both simple and eloquent. Einstein once remarked that the most unintelligible thing about the universe is the fact that it is intelligible. This amazing fact is perfectly understandable in light of a Christian worldview, however. And from a personal perspective, I can say that one of the things that draws me to science, is that through it, I acquire a new appreciation for the glory of God that manifests itself in creation. I does give answers to 'why', like why are we here? Because God wanted us. Why does the univers have order? Because God designed it to. The answers might depend on faith in God, but it still answers whys. It doesn't matter whether I say He can, if He's omnipotent He can break them. If He's not, He's not God.
and no, the guy and everyone else was having fun SO that couldn't be hell. Last time I checked, hell wasn't so joyous.
I don't need to give you a story, just tell you of the different stories there are. You can easily look them up yourself.
Why doesn't really matter, though. Plus, Science answers "Why" too but in a more sensible manner, and it also answers "How".
Like, "How can a god exist without being made?"
Simple, there is no kind of god, and that is the only answer I have found. You may want to say religion answers the questions that give hope, but it didn't answer my questions of sense.Slightly different, and that's like saying I can't believe in life if everyone has different lives. XD It sounded like the Hell I read about in Return from Tomorrow. And yes, you do have to give a story if you want a decent argument. I'm not debating with myself about this, I'm debating with you. Why matters a lot. It matter more then how, because why gives everything else purpose. What whys does it answer? And I already said it answered hows, but not that one. wink It's not supposed to answer that one. And why do you get to define sense? Your sense makes little sense to me.
I told you what the story contained, I'm not going to quote mine an entire story of a book I would have to look up. Not to mention you are arguing an idea of fallacy to a group majority of books that can be incorrect. If you really must need links to conflicting books instead of leaving to Google, I'll spend my time doing that. However, even if I did, how would that change your mind?
Why is purpose but that is it. I don't care about purpose, or atleast some kind of gigantic and mystical purpose. Maybe I want reasoning, something I can understand.
So your questioning my thinking now? You think it doesn't make sense for ME wanting to figure out a way we all came to be that can actually make more sense then an idea of some fairy man making everything? I mean, you can say MY sense makes no sense, but I can easily throw the same back. Harder. Let's not go there.
EDIT: Not to mention, you stated religion isn't meant to answer that "How". If that is the case, your on the same side as me and agreeing I have less reason to believe in religion if it can't answer all the How, but only the Why.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:40 pm
 Just had to get that out ^_^ Anyway, there is a very rational reason we would be here without a God interfering. Chance. There are so many planets out there, and some have been known and some scientists think they could support life. Are they under a different God? Or, much more likely, is it that sometimes in the googlegians of planets there are out there, some have the potential to support life without "divine" help? ((1, I am agnostic, not atheist. I'm still looking for my answers. 2, googlegians is the only way I could put 100^100th zeroes ^_^))
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:40 pm
Let's also not forget the other people believing in religions BESIDES God, Allah and such, who have said to seen experiences of their god. or do you just discount those and believe the people who have had experiences about your God?
http://www.spiritual-experiences.com/real-spiritual-story.php?story=24
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