|
|
| Your opinion on this? |
| It's ridiculous. |
|
42% |
[ 17 ] |
| They have a right to get their message out. |
|
37% |
[ 15 ] |
| I don't care. |
|
20% |
[ 8 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 40 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:20 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few. That's how it starts, kinda...we're supposed to be His servants at first. Later on though, we get to be His children, His friends...We're called kings and saints in the Bible! Plus, the other half of it is the Bible says you only get to choose between two masters, and if you serve yourself, then you're really serving the devil. So you basically get to choose between an amazing Dad who spoils you with grace and heavenly riches later on, or the illusion of being in charge of yourself, and worse then bubkis in the afterlife.... You'll have to explain further... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus posed this question a few questions. It poses the existence of evil and has stumped almost all Christians and most religious folk.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:09 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few. That's how it starts, kinda...we're supposed to be His servants at first. Later on though, we get to be His children, His friends...We're called kings and saints in the Bible! Plus, the other half of it is the Bible says you only get to choose between two masters, and if you serve yourself, then you're really serving the devil. So you basically get to choose between an amazing Dad who spoils you with grace and heavenly riches later on, or the illusion of being in charge of yourself, and worse then bubkis in the afterlife.... You'll have to explain further... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus posed this question a few questions. It poses the existence of evil and has stumped almost all Christians and most religious folk.Ah, that. Okay, it's that He is able, but He doesn't because love demands there is a choice. Evil comes from seperating from God, and doing what is against His will, and He needed to offer us the option of being able to do wrong because He didn't want us enslaved to His will, but wanted us to love Him of our own accord. He intended us to have a high place (I think there's even a verse that says He set us only a little below Him, but I might have that wrong). Considering that high place, I'm guessing we had to go through something more intense then the rest of creation. rolleyes And no, it hasn't stumped 'almost all Christians'. I bet that most haven't even seen that, and if I'm not completely stumped by that, and I'm not all that brillant, then there's probably Christians smarter then me who could come up with an argument that blows that out of the water. Plus if it had everyone so stumped, the church wouldn't exist.
I would have to explain in further detail if you didn't understand.
As for the saying, it HAS stumped many people throughout time. But by stumped, I mean they can't give a reason to deny it. The only argument I have seen against it that isn't stupid is
" God is none of those things. He is something else. "
Which makes entirely no sense.
As for the church not existing, the church still exists because people just push it aside and don't care about it which I suspect is what you are doing slightly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:10 pm
suprgrl12 Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few. That's how it starts, kinda...we're supposed to be His servants at first. Later on though, we get to be His children, His friends...We're called kings and saints in the Bible! Plus, the other half of it is the Bible says you only get to choose between two masters, and if you serve yourself, then you're really serving the devil. So you basically get to choose between an amazing Dad who spoils you with grace and heavenly riches later on, or the illusion of being in charge of yourself, and worse then bubkis in the afterlife.... You'll have to explain further... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus posed this question a few questions. It poses the existence of evil and has stumped almost all Christians and most religious folk.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:52 pm
Captain_Shinzo suprgrl12 Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo As Epicurus proves, that seems pretty false. You'll have to explain further... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus posed this question a few questions. It poses the existence of evil and has stumped almost all Christians and most religious folk.Seems like a good argument to me. smile
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:38 pm
cwilder725 Captain_Shinzo suprgrl12 Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo As Epicurus proves, that seems pretty false. You'll have to explain further... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus posed this question a few questions. It poses the existence of evil and has stumped almost all Christians and most religious folk.Seems like a good argument to me. smile
No matter what argument you use AGAINST it, there is a debunk for that argument as shown in the passage. =D
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:42 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo As Epicurus proves, that seems pretty false. You'll have to explain further... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus posed this question a few questions. It poses the existence of evil and has stumped almost all Christians and most religious folk.Ah, that. Okay, it's that He is able, but He doesn't because love demands there is a choice. Evil comes from seperating from God, and doing what is against His will, and He needed to offer us the option of being able to do wrong because He didn't want us enslaved to His will, but wanted us to love Him of our own accord. He intended us to have a high place (I think there's even a verse that says He set us only a little below Him, but I might have that wrong). Considering that high place, I'm guessing we had to go through something more intense then the rest of creation. rolleyes And no, it hasn't stumped 'almost all Christians'. I bet that most haven't even seen that, and if I'm not completely stumped by that, and I'm not all that brillant, then there's probably Christians smarter then me who could come up with an argument that blows that out of the water. Plus if it had everyone so stumped, the church wouldn't exist.
I would have to explain in further detail if you didn't understand.
As for the saying, it HAS stumped many people throughout time. But by stumped, I mean they can't give a reason to deny it. The only argument I have seen against it that isn't stupid is
" God is none of those things. He is something else. "
Which makes entirely no sense.
As for the church not existing, the church still exists because people just push it aside and don't care about it which I suspect is what you are doing slightly.It does answer what the poem spoke of. I can explain it slightly differently if you need me to, but basically you've got a black and white poem right there, and life and love just don't work like that. I just gave you an argument against it. It's your own problem if you can't see it. razz I'd say the same for you. I gave you an argument, and reasons, and you seem to be completely pushing them aside. You can do that, but I'd call that a cop-out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:53 pm
I agree, that was rather useless. Stop quarreling, silly people, and just learn to accept your neighbors even if they don't think the same way as you. ;/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:17 am
Semiremis Millions are. So apparently the Tampa Bay area is having a bit of a competition/quarrel between Christians and atheists (those with the United Coalition of Reason). After a Christian Business retiree spent $50,000 on billboards that he then used to spread a religious message. In retaliation $100,000 was spent by the coalition to set up signs spreading their message such as: "Are you good without God? Millions are."Personally I can't stop wondering what is wrong with these people. That's $150,000 right there wasted on stupid signs/billboards. I can think of a million better ways to spend it: I live in the Tampa area, Gibsonton to be exact and I did not know this was going on. I dont really get out much. I agree there are so many better ways to get your point across while spending all that money on better things. Feeding villages college scholarships youth centers buying me a hummer...um I mean, public transportation... I wouldn't mind a new wardrobe either. The list goes on and on. Source
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:28 am
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo As Epicurus proves, that seems pretty false. You'll have to explain further... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus posed this question a few questions. It poses the existence of evil and has stumped almost all Christians and most religious folk.Ah, that. Okay, it's that He is able, but He doesn't because love demands there is a choice. Evil comes from seperating from God, and doing what is against His will, and He needed to offer us the option of being able to do wrong because He didn't want us enslaved to His will, but wanted us to love Him of our own accord. He intended us to have a high place (I think there's even a verse that says He set us only a little below Him, but I might have that wrong). Considering that high place, I'm guessing we had to go through something more intense then the rest of creation. rolleyes And no, it hasn't stumped 'almost all Christians'. I bet that most haven't even seen that, and if I'm not completely stumped by that, and I'm not all that brillant, then there's probably Christians smarter then me who could come up with an argument that blows that out of the water. Plus if it had everyone so stumped, the church wouldn't exist.
I would have to explain in further detail if you didn't understand.
As for the saying, it HAS stumped many people throughout time. But by stumped, I mean they can't give a reason to deny it. The only argument I have seen against it that isn't stupid is
" God is none of those things. He is something else. "
Which makes entirely no sense.
As for the church not existing, the church still exists because people just push it aside and don't care about it which I suspect is what you are doing slightly.It does answer what the poem spoke of. I can explain it slightly differently if you need me to, but basically you've got a black and white poem right there, and life and love just don't work like that. I just gave you an argument against it. It's your own problem if you can't see it. razz I'd say the same for you. I gave you an argument, and reasons, and you seem to be completely pushing them aside. You can do that, but I'd call that a cop-out.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent."
Meaning if he CAN'T stop evil, he can't be all powerful.
"Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent."
Meaning if he CAN stop evil and wishes not to, than he is malevolent.
"Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?"
If he wants to and CAN stop evil, than where is the evil he wishes to stop?
"Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
If he can't stop evil and doesn't wish to, than why does he deserve the title of a God?
Pretty much, he is implying on what god could be a god and still deserve the title after all of life?
You gave me only a little bit to the poem, which doesn't answer his question on which most have failed from what I have read in forums.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:13 pm
Captain_Shinzo We have the same problem here in Georgia.
You can't go down a straight road without seeing "Trust God" on it.
But it isn't because I'm Atheist.
* Even though the message seems alittle self-centered. *
But the money spent to have all those bill boards with two letters on them could have been used for much better things. What is better than the gift of trust? Devoting all your life to prove that all of this beautiful creation of the world and of the human mind is all meaningless because it all came from a random reaction of gasses in the universe?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:15 pm
ZyuZyu I agree, that was rather useless. Stop quarreling, silly people, and just learn to accept your neighbors even if they don't think the same way as you. ;/ How can one ignore the walk into darkness of someone the love?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:27 am
II Stick_ Up_ Kid II Devoting all your life to prove that all of this beautiful creation of the world and of the human mind is all meaningless because it all came from a random reaction of gasses in the universe? God's non-existence doesn't make life meaningless. Purpose is something that is given to things by intelligence - our intelligence. If you need a "higher purpose", then I can pose a rather annoying question, much like the "who created god" one: what's the purpose of god?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:15 am
Artto II Stick_ Up_ Kid II Devoting all your life to prove that all of this beautiful creation of the world and of the human mind is all meaningless because it all came from a random reaction of gasses in the universe? God's non-existence doesn't make life meaningless. Purpose is something that is given to things by intelligence - our intelligence. If you need a "higher purpose", then I can pose a rather annoying question, much like the "who created god" one: what's the purpose of god? Purpose is something that is given to things by Love - Gods love. Intelligence is like a bubble the wind: It looks beautiful while its there, but the next second its gone and who cares. And to answer the last question the purpose of God is to live forever as God.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:55 am
Quote: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. God is omnipotent, God is able to prevent evil. Quote: Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. God is willing to prevent evil, but... Quote: Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Evil comes through disobedience of the laws that He put down for us. Evil comes from people using freewill to do malice to other people. Quote: Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? He is able and willing, but He made an unspoken covenant with us to not impose on our free-will. To stop all the evil in the world, would be to take away all of humanity's freewill, and make them no better than dolls. He has given us the tools so that we can improve ourselves so that we do not add evil to the world, which shows that He is willing to help, and if every human obeyed those laws (summed up easily in the Golden Rule), then evil would die. To take away our ability to do bad things completely would be to take away the free-will we have been granted, and would make us incapable of appreciating how wonderful everything is and what He has done for us. He allows the evil to exist in the world so we have the opportunity to do for ourselves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:50 am
II Stick_ Up_ Kid II Purpose is something that is given to things by Love - Gods love. The purpose of a hammer is to hammer nails. Where's god's love in that purpose? II Stick_ Up_ Kid II Intelligence is like a bubble the wind: It looks beautiful while its there, but the next second its gone and who cares. Can't argue with that. You mean consciousness, right? II Stick_ Up_ Kid II And to answer the last question the purpose of God is to live forever as God. That doesn't mean anything. I can say, my purpose is to live my life as me. That's just something that sounds deep but actually isn't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
