|
|
| Your opinion on this? |
| It's ridiculous. |
|
42% |
[ 17 ] |
| They have a right to get their message out. |
|
37% |
[ 15 ] |
| I don't care. |
|
20% |
[ 8 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 40 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:45 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx I'd still have a desire to help others, but I wouldn't see a purpose to it. It'd seem like a silly thing, because then it'd all be because of some chemicals in our head and bodies making us feel certain stuff. What's the purpose to that? Thought processes are based in chemicals. It is just chemicals reacting in a certain way in our head. Without God, without souls, we're just very temporary meatbags trained by the chemicals and our environment to react a certain way. Life really doesn't have any worth, we're just assembled in such a way to treat it as if it does....  Can you give me a purpose for good will? A purpose that has permanent worth?
What permanent worth?
Your no worth after you die and go to your "heaven" and your no worth while you live. The only worth you have is what you make of it which is what really matters. If you can't make your own worth, then there should be no reason to be humane.There is no reason why I can't, I'm afraid. 'Make your own worth'? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...? And if God exists, there's every reason to be humane. I don't see why doing good because you think every person is shaped in God's image and He cares for them is a worse reason then 'making your own worth', whatever that means. I think it's a better reason, actually, but that could be just because it's the one I understand.
If you can't understand at making yourself worth something, then my argument is already flawed. It's not that hard to understand that you can make yourself something instead of letting a title of being an existence something.Actually that was an expression. I guess it didn't transfer correctly over the net. I really don't get it. I guess neither of us will be able to bridge the gap and see where the other is coming from right now...
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:48 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Thought processes are based in chemicals. It is just chemicals reacting in a certain way in our head. Without God, without souls, we're just very temporary meatbags trained by the chemicals and our environment to react a certain way. Life really doesn't have any worth, we're just assembled in such a way to treat it as if it does.... Can you give me a purpose for good will? A purpose that has permanent worth?
What permanent worth?
Your no worth after you die and go to your "heaven" and your no worth while you live. The only worth you have is what you make of it which is what really matters. If you can't make your own worth, then there should be no reason to be humane.There is no reason why I can't, I'm afraid. 'Make your own worth'? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...? And if God exists, there's every reason to be humane. I don't see why doing good because you think every person is shaped in God's image and He cares for them is a worse reason then 'making your own worth', whatever that means. I think it's a better reason, actually, but that could be just because it's the one I understand.
If you can't understand at making yourself worth something, then my argument is already flawed. It's not that hard to understand that you can make yourself something instead of letting a title of being an existence something.Actually that was an expression. I guess it didn't transfer correctly over the net. I really don't get it. I guess neither of us will be able to bridge the gap and see where the other is coming from right now... ya know, i tried to sort of help answer questions about this in two different posts on the previous page... it would be nice if you'd read them. sweatdrop
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:49 pm
Chieftain Twilight now, @ EB: i agree with Shinzo on the "make your own worthe" thing. let me explain it. we have a drive to live by codes of good and evil, and to have a purpose by which to live. that purpose doesn't exist objectively, so we have to decide for ourselves why we live. that can be a scary thought for some people, i know, i have suffered years of suicidal depression because of the realization that i didn't have any purpose or reason. but i found a cause that makes me feel glad, and i feel that that is my purpose. we each have our own purpose, because we choose what that purpose is. we find it however we do, some by religion, others by causes, and still others simply choose one. I get the whole finding a purpose thing, but I don't think someone can make one in oneself without deluding themselves. I mean, how can you make a purpose in yourself when you know you won't last forever?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:52 pm
Chieftain Twilight xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Thought processes are based in chemicals. It is just chemicals reacting in a certain way in our head. Without God, without souls, we're just very temporary meatbags trained by the chemicals and our environment to react a certain way. Life really doesn't have any worth, we're just assembled in such a way to treat it as if it does.... Can you give me a purpose for good will? A purpose that has permanent worth?
What permanent worth?
Your no worth after you die and go to your "heaven" and your no worth while you live. The only worth you have is what you make of it which is what really matters. If you can't make your own worth, then there should be no reason to be humane.There is no reason why I can't, I'm afraid. 'Make your own worth'? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...? And if God exists, there's every reason to be humane. I don't see why doing good because you think every person is shaped in God's image and He cares for them is a worse reason then 'making your own worth', whatever that means. I think it's a better reason, actually, but that could be just because it's the one I understand.
If you can't understand at making yourself worth something, then my argument is already flawed. It's not that hard to understand that you can make yourself something instead of letting a title of being an existence something.Actually that was an expression. I guess it didn't transfer correctly over the net. I really don't get it. I guess neither of us will be able to bridge the gap and see where the other is coming from right now... ya know, i tried to sort of help answer questions about this in two different posts on the previous page... it would be nice if you'd read them. sweatdrop I'll go look, I'm sorry. sweatdrop I skipped a post of yours, and a post of Shinzo's too `cause I was trying to respond to the posts that quoted mine first.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:54 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Chieftain Twilight now, @ EB: i agree with Shinzo on the "make your own worthe" thing. let me explain it. we have a drive to live by codes of good and evil, and to have a purpose by which to live. that purpose doesn't exist objectively, so we have to decide for ourselves why we live. that can be a scary thought for some people, i know, i have suffered years of suicidal depression because of the realization that i didn't have any purpose or reason. but i found a cause that makes me feel glad, and i feel that that is my purpose. we each have our own purpose, because we choose what that purpose is. we find it however we do, some by religion, others by causes, and still others simply choose one. I get the whole finding a purpose thing, but I don't think someone can make one in oneself without deluding themselves. I mean, how can you make a purpose in yourself when you know you won't last forever? by simply acknowledging the fact that you arn't meant to last forever. your purpose is for your life. it is supposed to be what makes you feel complete and accomplished while you live. it's no delusion. i know that i have no objective purpose, and i am ok with that. in fact, i have a certain relief because of it. smile i'm not bound by anything other than self-governance! biggrin it's an incredible feeling, knowing (or at least believing) that i can shape my own future. ^_^
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:55 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Chieftain Twilight xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx There is no reason why I can't, I'm afraid. 'Make your own worth'? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...? And if God exists, there's every reason to be humane. I don't see why doing good because you think every person is shaped in God's image and He cares for them is a worse reason then 'making your own worth', whatever that means. I think it's a better reason, actually, but that could be just because it's the one I understand.
If you can't understand at making yourself worth something, then my argument is already flawed. It's not that hard to understand that you can make yourself something instead of letting a title of being an existence something.Actually that was an expression. I guess it didn't transfer correctly over the net. I really don't get it. I guess neither of us will be able to bridge the gap and see where the other is coming from right now... ya know, i tried to sort of help answer questions about this in two different posts on the previous page... it would be nice if you'd read them. sweatdrop I'll go look, I'm sorry. sweatdrop I skipped a post of yours, and a post of Shinzo's too `cause I was trying to respond to the posts that quoted mine first. heh, is ok dear. sweatdrop
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:56 pm
No... My whole life is dedicated to Allah and only him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:32 pm
Chieftain Twilight confused wow shinzo, a little harsh, ain't ya think? seriously, i think you are misunderstanding the concept behind worship. we choose to believe in and worship our gods because we love them. we trust in them, and feel like we have some sort of divine parent-figure out there who watches over us, keeps us company, and gives us boons. someone who will warn us when we are doing something they think is a bad idea, and saying "i told you so" when we screw up. and typically, these gods tend to be the kind to always forgive us if we didn't mean to. it's like being an orphan, and then being adopted. you have this gratidtude, and this warm feeling inside, because you feel more loved than you ever had before. it's not about fear, or purpose, or dogma, or right/wrong. it's about love.
Be it harsh as it may, the worth is nothing of the difference.
Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Chieftain Twilight i like to think of it this way. first of all, we are tiny, insignificant beings in this vast Multiverse. whatever we do is comparitively unimportant in the grand scheme of things. a time period that seems like forever to us is to the Galaxy we are in like what a minute is to us. all of our wars and revolutions and tyrants and heroes are just specks of dust. our world has been around billions of years before we even sprung up, and it will last trillons more years after our planet dries up. however, we are also made up of all the same elements that make up that wondrous and god-sized Universe that we inhabit. we are insignificant, but we are simultaneously the very children of the cosmos. and there is something definately magnificent about that. now, i believe that nobody has any "human rights", and that there is no universal "right and wrong" or "good and evil". there is only what a person is capable and willing to do. now, of course this means that there is no Universal purose, no reason for us to exist. but see, that is exactly why we have this drive to define right and wrong. we create moral values for ourselves, and follow them. this gives us a sense of purpose. it doesn't matter whether it's universally right or not, it's OUR personal reason to live and be and do what we do! and it is a reason. it counts. it doesn't matter to me whether i am wrong to believe in my Gods. i love them, and i believe they are real, i percieve them, interact with them. are my moral values effected by my worship? maybe, but so what? that's ok by me. because my morals are personal to me. that's the way i see it. we may be insignificant, but we matter to ourselves and eachother, and that's all that matters. True. Check. Agreed. I only disagree with your last statement, but it seems like we both pretty much percieve the same thing and have come to different conclusions....^^ And I hope I got the post you were talking about, but if I missed something, would you mind pointing it out for me?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:16 pm
Chieftain Twilight xxEternallyBluexx Chieftain Twilight now, @ EB: i agree with Shinzo on the "make your own worthe" thing. let me explain it. we have a drive to live by codes of good and evil, and to have a purpose by which to live. that purpose doesn't exist objectively, so we have to decide for ourselves why we live. that can be a scary thought for some people, i know, i have suffered years of suicidal depression because of the realization that i didn't have any purpose or reason. but i found a cause that makes me feel glad, and i feel that that is my purpose. we each have our own purpose, because we choose what that purpose is. we find it however we do, some by religion, others by causes, and still others simply choose one. I get the whole finding a purpose thing, but I don't think someone can make one in oneself without deluding themselves. I mean, how can you make a purpose in yourself when you know you won't last forever? by simply acknowledging the fact that you arn't meant to last forever. your purpose is for your life. it is supposed to be what makes you feel complete and accomplished while you live. it's no delusion. i know that i have no objective purpose, and i am ok with that. in fact, i have a certain relief because of it. smile i'm not bound by anything other than self-governance! biggrin it's an incredible feeling, knowing (or at least believing) that i can shape my own future. ^_^ I don't know how to deal with that. I've never had to come to terms with being temporal, because I've heard when we die we got to Heaven (so long as we're Saved), my whole life. I can kinda see we're you're coming from ^^, but from the beliefs that have been ingrained into me since a young age, it'd be a great loss to give up the knowledge eternity awaits me, and I don't have to worry about how temporary life is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:25 pm
Captain_Shinzo Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few. That's how it starts, kinda...we're supposed to be His servants at first. Later on though, we get to be His children, His friends...We're called kings and saints in the Bible! Plus, the other half of it is the Bible says you only get to choose between two masters, and if you serve yourself, then you're really serving the devil. So you basically get to choose between an amazing Dad who spoils you with grace and heavenly riches later on, or the illusion of being in charge of yourself, and worse then bubkis in the afterlife....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:18 am
xxEternallyBluexx Chieftain Twilight xxEternallyBluexx Chieftain Twilight now, @ EB: i agree with Shinzo on the "make your own worthe" thing. let me explain it. we have a drive to live by codes of good and evil, and to have a purpose by which to live. that purpose doesn't exist objectively, so we have to decide for ourselves why we live. that can be a scary thought for some people, i know, i have suffered years of suicidal depression because of the realization that i didn't have any purpose or reason. but i found a cause that makes me feel glad, and i feel that that is my purpose. we each have our own purpose, because we choose what that purpose is. we find it however we do, some by religion, others by causes, and still others simply choose one. I get the whole finding a purpose thing, but I don't think someone can make one in oneself without deluding themselves. I mean, how can you make a purpose in yourself when you know you won't last forever? by simply acknowledging the fact that you arn't meant to last forever. your purpose is for your life. it is supposed to be what makes you feel complete and accomplished while you live. it's no delusion. i know that i have no objective purpose, and i am ok with that. in fact, i have a certain relief because of it. smile i'm not bound by anything other than self-governance! biggrin it's an incredible feeling, knowing (or at least believing) that i can shape my own future. ^_^ I don't know how to deal with that. I've never had to come to terms with being temporal, because I've heard when we die we got to Heaven (so long as we're Saved), my whole life. I can kinda see we're you're coming from ^^, but from the beliefs that have been ingrained into me since a young age, it'd be a great loss to give up the knowledge eternity awaits me, and I don't have to worry about how temporary life is. i'm not saying there is no eternal afterlife. xd there is one. but in there, just like on this earth, your purpose is up to you. our life purpose is when we are alive. i know it makes no difference to you christians, what with your "heaven" and all that... personally... i think of heaven and hell as states of mind. i'm more inclined to think of the afterlife a plane of existence where all souls go to. i don't think that happiness/joy and pain/sadness can be eternal things. if it were, i'd just pray for oblivion or Nirvana. ._. i couldn't handle that kind of stagnancy. you shouldn't turn your head away from the fact that life is temporary. you will enjoy life more and better when you apreciate how fleeting it is. smile plus, it's such a peaceful reminder that all things, good and bad, eventually fade away.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:20 am
Captain_Shinzo Chieftain Twilight confused wow shinzo, a little harsh, ain't ya think? seriously, i think you are misunderstanding the concept behind worship. we choose to believe in and worship our gods because we love them. we trust in them, and feel like we have some sort of divine parent-figure out there who watches over us, keeps us company, and gives us boons. someone who will warn us when we are doing something they think is a bad idea, and saying "i told you so" when we screw up. and typically, these gods tend to be the kind to always forgive us if we didn't mean to. it's like being an orphan, and then being adopted. you have this gratidtude, and this warm feeling inside, because you feel more loved than you ever had before. it's not about fear, or purpose, or dogma, or right/wrong. it's about love.
Be it harsh as it may, the worth is nothing of the difference.
Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few.i disagree. there still is no pettiness to our worthe in the eyes of our gods. they love as their children, not as their pets. as for the christian god, you are mistaking the actions of the church for the actions of their god. however, i will say this. i don't believe that the christian god is both alive and benevolent. he is at best only one of the two, but possibly neither.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:22 am
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few. That's how it starts, kinda...we're supposed to be His servants at first. Later on though, we get to be His children, His friends...We're called kings and saints in the Bible! Plus, the other half of it is the Bible says you only get to choose between two masters, and if you serve yourself, then you're really serving the devil. So you basically get to choose between an amazing Dad who spoils you with grace and heavenly riches later on, or the illusion of being in charge of yourself, and worse then bubkis in the afterlife.... now that is quite a misunderstanding dear. sad you never STOP being his slaves. you are supposed to be happy and willing slaves, sacrifices to his will as it were. and you are at no point NOT his children and friends unless you are opposed to him. you are always all three at once.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:34 am
Chieftain Twilight xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo Now, depending on the god I could understand but to the christian god, it seems like puppets played for an audience of few. That's how it starts, kinda...we're supposed to be His servants at first. Later on though, we get to be His children, His friends...We're called kings and saints in the Bible! Plus, the other half of it is the Bible says you only get to choose between two masters, and if you serve yourself, then you're really serving the devil. So you basically get to choose between an amazing Dad who spoils you with grace and heavenly riches later on, or the illusion of being in charge of yourself, and worse then bubkis in the afterlife.... now that is quite a misunderstanding dear. sad you never STOP being his slaves. you are supposed to be happy and willing slaves, sacrifices to his will as it were. and you are at no point NOT his children and friends unless you are opposed to him. you are always all three at once. How'd I make that mistake? XD I guess I meant it more like your relationsip with Him is what you need it to be...sometimes He's more like your friend, sometimes your father, but your right, I put that wrong. Oops. xp
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
