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ah nono you have misunderstood me!
I'm not saying that you must like the canon couple no exception!
what I tried to explain is that sqaure intended for cloud to love aerith and tifa to accept that

the date mechanism was just there for your entertainment! I mean just because he went on a date with yuffie or barret means that they love each other! and even so aerith was the default date
and this applies for tidus also! yes you can have a scene with lulu and rikku but still tidus loved yuna because I dont think you can just change the ending or the macalania scene

but in the actual creation of final fantasy 7 tifa was not included. it was meant to be cloud barret and aerith. and so aerith was the love interst
even after they decided to add in tifa
square stated that tifa wasnt added to replace aerith
so tifa wasnt going to be cloud's love interst

i beleive cloud likes aries.
but im guessing so i might be wrong.

So youre saying that they changed the entire project and added in Tifa. Because the plot of the story relied on Tifa being in it, since she was the reason Cloud left Nibelham in the first place; she was the one that found him in Midgar; she was the one who brought him back from his Mako poisoning; etc., etc. Tifa was always in the project from the start.

It's like, Aeris is dead and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she's coming back to life..otherwise what was the point of killing her anyway
So, can we just get overrrr her?

jhufgdfljgnoiufv odfhg

Just so you people know those were made by Clotifs to show just how stupid and ridicules the Love Triangle site is.

And for the last time CLOUD AND TIFA ARE CANNON!!!! READ THE AC REUNION FILES!!! IT SAY'S SO IN THERE!!! But just because Cloud and Tifa are cannon doesn’t mean that you can't have your CloudxAeris or CloudxYuffe fandome. However I despise CloudxAeris people that say that Cloud and Aeris are cannon and that Cloud is going to go down to the lake dig up her body and find a way to bring her back and if he can’t do that he should kill himself so that he can be with her. That’s just sick and it really pisses me off.

Don’t believe me here is proof that Cloud and Tifa are Cannon

AC Reunion Files




This is the site that I got all of my proof from http://tifa.nu/tifa/

Self-Insertion

If you compare FF7 & FF8, there are glaring and undeniable similarities between Cloud & Squall and Tifa & Rinoa. As Nomura created Cloud to be an idealistic version of himself, so did he create Squall. Squall at the start was far too similar to Cloud, and Yoshinori Kitase (director) had Squall changed further. Nomura created Tifa to be his ideal woman for Cloud, much in the same way he created Rinoa's design and dialogue to be ideal for Squall. Both Tifa and Rinoa were designed based on Nomura's personal preferences, as a result of his self-insertion.

Nomura also has a penchant for long-haired women. When he first applied to join Squaresoft, he had to have an interview and show some of his artwork. All of the pieces he brought depicted busty long-haired women (like Tifa), and staff members even jokingly asked him if that's all he likes! Furthermore, he has stated on numerous occasions that his favorite designs are Rinoa (who Nomura has dictated Tifa look more like in Advent Children) and Kaldea (from The Bouncer, who is similar to Tifa in facial features and physique).

Additionally, it was Nomura's idea to kill Aerith and have Tifa take over as the game's leading female. He was personally unsatisfied with Aerith's design (in that she was someone who he himself wouldn't be attracted to) and role in the story and so he decided to replace her midway through the game with a character he found more agreeable - Tifa. That everything goes in Tifa's favor towards the end of the game as she takes over the spotlight shows that Nomura preferred her over Aerith who, having done her part in saving the Planet, is dead.

Although Nomura insists that he wants to leave it up to the players to decide who Cloud likes, it's clear that his personal choice would be Tifa!



The Lifestream

Cloud is the kind of guy who on the surface thinks of himself. He wants to seem tough and strong to his peers, so he doesn't care to converse or show emotions freely. Only rarely would he bother to prove that he is still the Cloud that Tifa remembers who continues keep his promise. There's only one point in the game where we see what the real Cloud truly thinks, and that is in the Lifestream.



Cloud: "You said 'Cloud, it's been a while' and those words will always support me."
Cloud: "I'm your childhood friend. I'm Cloud of Nibelheim."
Cloud: "However much I lose faith in myself, that is the truth."
Cloud: "That's why Tifa... you shouldn't be so scared."
Cloud: "No matter what anyone else says, it's Tifa's attitude that matters to me..."


(At the Reunion, Cloud singles Tifa out of the whole party.)


Cloud: "Especially you, Miss... Tifa. I'm really sorry."
Cloud: "You're always so nice to me... What can I say..."


(Before handing Sephiroth the Black Materia, Cloud apologizes to everyone, but once again singles Tifa out. In this case, he thinks he's failed Tifa and addresses her in a respectful way, 'Tifasan', in this unusual situation. Correct translations of all scenes are from FF7J-i.)

To Tifa, Cloud is just a friend from her youth who stood out because of a promise he made. She's the type of person who never forgets her friends and values them greatly, so she would never forget such a promise. Even in the presence of Aerith, Tifa makes it clear Cloud is 'just' a friend and she makes no advances to prove their relationship being otherwise.


Aerith:"...!? Tifa! Tifa, is also here!"
Tifa:"Excuse me."
Tifa:"You know, Aerith. I have a question though."
Aerith:"Wha~t?"
Tifa: "Does the Promised Land truly exist?"


(Aerith is caught asking Cloud for a date, Tifa changes the subject to the serious situation at hand. Aerith was tense about what Tifa is about to ask, because she thought Tifa would ask about the date.)

In the Lifestream, all of Cloud's dominant memories are exposed as ones revolving around him wanting to be more than 'just' a friend to Tifa. The way Cloud thinks of her constantly, singles her out among the other stupid (baka) children, wants to be noticed by her, wants to protect her, isn't only something he felt in the past but something which he continues to feel into his adulthood. He always is thinking of her welfare, what she is going through, and wants to make sure someone else is taking care of her when he can't:


Cloud: "Worry about yourselves! I'm fine, so take care of Tifa!"
Barret: "...I understand. Sorry 'bout everything."


(Cloud is about to fall down, and might die before he and Tifa had the chance to discuss something important. He and Barret come to an agreement for once, because they care for Tifa. Barret understands Cloud's request to watch over Tifa, Barret even has to restrain Tifa from falling down with Cloud.)

The tough act Cloud put on began after Tifa's mother died. He started getting into fights, to prove he wasn't weak. He then left Nibelheim to impress Tifa. Cloud did all this because he wanted her to notice him as being a 'different', strong person like Sephiroth. He continued the act by hiding his identity during the time she worked as a guide, and when she later reunited with him at Midgar he hid his pain and confusion.


Tifa: Cloud: "But, what happened? You don't look well."
Cloud: "...is that so? No, it's nothing. I'm fine."


The impact of the Lifestream scene is not only what Cloud says. There are multiple voices and images, representing Cloud's differing states of consciousness. Each were repeating the statements slowly, showing how strongly he feels about her. Tifa's reaction also comes dramatically, as she, like the player, is now absorbing the realizations.


Tifa: "You wanted to be noticed...? ...by who?"
Cloud: "By Tifa..."
Tifa: "... ...me? Why!?"


It's also revealed that Cloud intended to be Tifa's hero before any promise was ever made. The day her mother died, he tried to be her hero, but couldn't.


Cloud: "If only I could've saved her..."
Cloud: "I was so angry... Angry at myself for being weak."
Cloud: "Ever since then, I felt Tifa blamed me..."


Tifa never assumed or believed that Cloud held such feelings for her all along. She is the only other character Cloud would ever reveal such secret wishes and tender memories to. It's Tifa's admittance to thinking about Cloud which also makes him happy.


Tifa: "...you came."
Tifa: "...you kept your promise."
Tifa: "So you did come when I was in a pinch!"
Cloud: "Sorry... I got there... a little late..."


(The flashback in the well also shows a shooting star, one of many situations mirrored with Rinoa and Squall in FF8 and also a reflection of the Maria's wish to be reuinited with Draco in the opera in FF6. Tifa thought the wish granted was Cloud joining SOLDIER, but it never happened. Despite what happened as children, their promise was made later on and Cloud granted Tifa's wish.)

Through FF7's story Tifa eventually comes to a new realization. Everyone in their party is fighting for something or someone important to them, and not just the Planet.


Cloud: "I know why I'm fighting."
Cloud: "I'm fighting to save the Planet, of course."
Cloud: "But, besides that it's something personal..."
Cloud: "A very personal wish that I have."


Cloud says that he's fighting for something personal, and there's only one private wish which he has ever held clearly in his mind. This was revealed to Tifa in the Lifestream; the word Cloud uses in both the Highwind and the Lifestream is the same wish (omoi). His wish, his secret is how he wanted to be there, be a hero for Tifa.


Cloud: "....keep this a secret... please..."
Cloud: "an important wish... no one would ever understand..."


In Tifa's case she realized that she continues to be there for Cloud.

Tifa: Yes... Even then I'm... all right."
Tifa: "If I'm with Cloud... if Cloud is by my side..."
Tifa: "Even if I'm scared... I won't lose, I..."
Cloud: ".... Tifa..."



Timing is Everything

This section has touched upon Cloud and Tifa's relationship, without resorting to silly interpretations or nonsensical symbolism. It looked at how FF7's story was presented in the game, ignoring the frills of optional dialogue or what the game could have been like. It's more than evident that Cloud and Tifa share a friendship in the story which cannot be ignored.

Still, some fans insist on discussing the couplings of characters rather than playing the game. There are a few reasons why some fans still believe Aerith and Cloud shared a closer relationship.

Full Motion Video
Often it's because players watched the game's FMV rather than read the dialogue. The game begins with Aerith being the first character to appear and ends with only a glimpse of her. This gives the game a sense of completeness, but some fans read too deeply into it. A more plausible explanation for FMV association would the most memorable and commercialized FMV scene, being her death.

Main Role Playing Heroine Clichés
Aerith, on the surface, also fits the stereotypes which started with Record of Lodoss War (an animation in Japan which the staff bases most of their fantasy ideas from): she's magically unique (Cetra), physically weak, feminine and represents all that is good. Her pure heart and a magical item she carries (Holy Materia) would be the key to overcoming everything wrong in the world. It's this kind of mental association which most often sways people's opinions despite having played the game.

Non-Canonical
There are only two places where the actual story is presented, those being FF7 (the game) and Advent Children (the movie). Anything else is non-canon, meaning it is unrelated to the actual story. The type of people who enjoy games more often than not enjoy non-canon storylines and pairings.

The FF7 Project focused on breaking all kinds of moulds with their graphics, lead characters and storylines. When playing the game, people realized that Cloud wouldn't be a fearless hero who kept everyone's spirits up and Aerith wouldn't be a kind heroine who concerns herself with other's feelings. It's the huge amount of changes to RPG stereotypes which made FF7 loved by it's creators but questioned by it's fans.

After the game's release, the internet was slowly becoming widespread and staff looked at online message boards (the largest being 2ch), noting reactions and suggestions. Nobody on staff expected that the 'Triangle' and Aerith's death would make for heated discussion. Threads would last for weeks, leading to negative remarks or finger pointing at the staff. The staff also had some of their own ideas for improving the game, and by seeing the discussions over unclear story details, they decided to add scenes in FF7's english release (and later FF7 International) to clarify the story.

The 'Triangle' however, was intended to last as long as Aerith was alive. It's even described in all Aerith's game profiles as something she enjoys tampering or interfering with. With her being dead, her only logical and canon conclusion would be that she has been reunited with Zacks in the Lifestream.

Although FF7 the game has been concluded, Advent Children has yet to be released. Hopefully another conclusion for Cloud and Tifa's relationship will be clearly made, but details have already surfaced. Its being a project that was loved by its creators, the characters' personalities and the general focus of the story must stay intact.

One of the details which surfaced was the fact that Cloud and Tifa have been working (and possibly living) together, but not as a couple. Considering their personalities, and Tifa not wanting to lose the type of relaxed friendship they had, it would make little sense if they did get together because they haven't found the right time for that kind of change in the game itself.

Nomura also has answered a Famitsu (PS2) reporter's question about Cloud and Tifa's relationship in the movie:

"Concerning the relationship between the two, I feel the movie is able to profoundly grasp the truth. It is simple to explain in words, but..."

This shows how the characters haven't really changed since the game. Cloud and Tifa's relationship isn't something which can be described in a few words. This matches one of Tifa's last lines in the game (true translation from FF7J-i):

"Cloud... feelings aren't conveyed by words only..."

i think it was tifa because they already have a history together 3nodding

Ahem, excuse me, but...

WARNING. If you have an issue with someone else's attitude, then take it up with them in PMs or something else of that like. No name calling, or anything of that ilk here. Okay? Keep it nice, and if you can't keep your head cool, then take a break until you can.

Sheesh. They're both canon, in their own individual way. I like both pairings AND both girls. Fancy that. razz

As for the whole comment about Nomura talking about not liking deformed girls, he wasn't just referring to Tifa (large breasts do NOT make a woman deformed). What he was actually (as in most likely, out of all the assumptions both parties have made) is that he was not into ANIME girls in general. ALL ANIME GIRLS ARE DEFORMED. It's not the body, but the style itself. Most anime (particularly Nomura's anime style used for Final Fantasy VII) deforms a part or certain characteristics of a character's body. A very prominent one is the eyes of the characters, because there sure as hell aren't any real people out there with eyes the size of their fists.

Just because a girl has a large bust like Tifa's does NOT mean she is deformed. I find it disgusting that people would even think that, since there are lots of girls who naturally have large breasts. -_-;;;

However, Aerith very much so has a bust, and her hips aren't fat either. They're what people tend to call shapely. Tifa's are more toned and slimmer because she's a fighter.

If anyone has a problem with Aerith's hair, then Sephiroth, Zack, and Cloud's hair should make you writhe in agony. -_-;;;

Refrain from bashing a character based off of your own opinion on them. Opinion does not constitute as fact. We're not here to start a pairing war, so DON'T.

Or I lock the thread, and issue official warnings.

Continue discussing intelligently, everyone. Have fun. biggrin

Signed,
StrawberrieIceCream, Mod