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 Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:15 am
Artto Extuis And you,the one who says that humanity and every other thing in the universe evolved. Well then,what caused this world to be so special? what caused it too form at this exact spot that makes it an ideal place for evolution? Surely someone out there created this world for an idea habitat for something. It's the other way around. We evolved on this planet in this universe. The conditions don't fit us, we fit the conditions. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. The probability of an event that has already happened is 1.
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:10 pm
Eccentric Detective Artto Extuis And you,the one who says that humanity and every other thing in the universe evolved. Well then,what caused this world to be so special? what caused it too form at this exact spot that makes it an ideal place for evolution? Surely someone out there created this world for an idea habitat for something. It's the other way around. We evolved on this planet in this universe. The conditions don't fit us, we fit the conditions. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. The probability of an event that has already happened is 1.
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:50 pm
Captain_Shinzo Eccentric Detective Artto Extuis And you,the one who says that humanity and every other thing in the universe evolved. Well then,what caused this world to be so special? what caused it too form at this exact spot that makes it an ideal place for evolution? Surely someone out there created this world for an idea habitat for something. It's the other way around. We evolved on this planet in this universe. The conditions don't fit us, we fit the conditions. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. The probability of an event that has already happened is 1. What? You need to take a logic class.
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:54 pm
Artto divineseraph Artto Eltanin Sadachbia Yet, the computer needed to be programed to recognize outside stimuli and interpret them into problems and render solutions. What if the initial program that rendered the brain an accurate processor was the soul? It's evolved to be hard-wired that way. Our basic fears and wants are hard-wired. Everything else is acquired, learned. And I say it's not. Your words against mine. You'll cite science, but I'll say that what we're dealing with can't be observed and is therefore outside of the realm of science. We're back at square one. Well, if you think evolution didn't happen, then I think we're done. I never said anything about evolution not happening. I said something about the evolution of souls, or the evolution of feeling like having a soul.
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:08 pm
divineseraph Captain_Shinzo Eccentric Detective Artto Extuis And you,the one who says that humanity and every other thing in the universe evolved. Well then,what caused this world to be so special? what caused it too form at this exact spot that makes it an ideal place for evolution? Surely someone out there created this world for an idea habitat for something. It's the other way around. We evolved on this planet in this universe. The conditions don't fit us, we fit the conditions. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. The probability of an event that has already happened is 1. What? You need to take a logic class.
My point is, she was implying that something was already what it was, which I was trying to imply in my extremely sarcastic way that thinking something already WAS by an assumption is quite absurd.
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:08 pm
Captain_Shinzo divineseraph Captain_Shinzo Eccentric Detective Artto Extuis And you,the one who says that humanity and every other thing in the universe evolved. Well then,what caused this world to be so special? what caused it too form at this exact spot that makes it an ideal place for evolution? Surely someone out there created this world for an idea habitat for something. It's the other way around. We evolved on this planet in this universe. The conditions don't fit us, we fit the conditions. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. The probability of an event that has already happened is 1. What? You need to take a logic class.
My point is, she was implying that something was already what it was, which I was trying to imply in my extremely sarcastic way that thinking something already WAS by an assumption is quite absurd. While the probability of an event that has already happened is one, it does not mean that we know what happened in the past. So if there are two possibilities, while what DID happen had a probability of one, we can not say that BOTH had a probability of one, or just pick one because one of them must have happened. I feel that might have been in the spirit of what you were saying, but seriously. It's hard to tell what you're talking about because of your use of logic.
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:28 am
So what you're saying is, animals with higher levels of intelligence need a soul to function properly?
I said that our basic fears and wants were the product of evolution, and you say they are the product of the soul. So basically, humans couldn't even function without a soul. Or do all animals have souls (even starfish, who lack a brain, but still have a rather complex nervous system)? And if not, when and why does a soul "evolve"?
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:54 pm
Souls themselves are beings or at least i think so, souls do have some choice. In where they go after the host body dies. But at the end of their spirit cycle they are pulled back to whatever creator you follow.
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:53 pm
Artto So what you're saying is, animals with higher levels of intelligence need a soul to function properly? I said that our basic fears and wants were the product of evolution, and you say they are the product of the soul. So basically, humans couldn't even function without a soul. Or do all animals have souls (even starfish, who lack a brain, but still have a rather complex nervous system)? And if not, when and why does a soul "evolve"? Yes, humans can not function without a soul- Just like they can not function without a body or a spirit. Take the soul out of a person and you have a machine- Something that has the parts to run and the vitalization to run on, but without any form of controller- So, some kind of comatose or vegetative state. I don't think that was the argument. I was talking about our understanding in context, not fears and wants. All animals have Soul in them (The principle itself), but not necessarily A singular Soul. A soul is in place, essentially, in a thing that can harbor them, or so evidence suggests. It's not always based on complexity, either- Magpies are self-aware, for example, and parrots, even with their small cranial capacity, are nearly as intelligent as dolphins.
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:40 pm
Captain_Shinzo divineseraph Captain_Shinzo Eccentric Detective Artto Extuis And you,the one who says that humanity and every other thing in the universe evolved. Well then,what caused this world to be so special? what caused it too form at this exact spot that makes it an ideal place for evolution? Surely someone out there created this world for an idea habitat for something. It's the other way around. We evolved on this planet in this universe. The conditions don't fit us, we fit the conditions. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. The probability of an event that has already happened is 1. What? You need to take a logic class.
My point is, she was implying that something was already what it was, which I was trying to imply in my extremely sarcastic way that thinking something already WAS by an assumption is quite absurd. *scratches head* My point is, it doesn't matter what the possibilities were, because this world is what it is. We could go on to speculate about what kind of alternate worlds there would be which are significantly different from ours, but that's something for another discussion. Why must we think we are special because a planet suitable for life eventually developed life?
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:37 pm
Eccentric Detective Captain_Shinzo divineseraph Captain_Shinzo Eccentric Detective The probability of an event that has already happened is 1. What? You need to take a logic class.
My point is, she was implying that something was already what it was, which I was trying to imply in my extremely sarcastic way that thinking something already WAS by an assumption is quite absurd. *scratches head* My point is, it doesn't matter what the possibilities were, because this world is what it is. We could go on to speculate about what kind of alternate worlds there would be which are significantly different from ours, but that's something for another discussion. Why must we think we are special because a planet suitable for life eventually developed life? What we don't know is WHY, though. Why CAN'T the universe be the body of God? Why can't there be a why? Just because we know HOW a system works doesn't mean we know what caused it to be in the first place. I heard a terrible argument in a book by an atheist- It compared the universe to a machine, that the gears are not special just because they do the job that they do. But this left open a gaping hole- Machines are intentionally crafted for a purpose, by a conscious creator. If we are gears, if the universe is a machine, why can there not be a reason behind it?
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:43 pm
divineseraph Eccentric Detective Captain_Shinzo divineseraph Captain_Shinzo Eccentric Detective The probability of an event that has already happened is 1. What? You need to take a logic class.
My point is, she was implying that something was already what it was, which I was trying to imply in my extremely sarcastic way that thinking something already WAS by an assumption is quite absurd. *scratches head* My point is, it doesn't matter what the possibilities were, because this world is what it is. We could go on to speculate about what kind of alternate worlds there would be which are significantly different from ours, but that's something for another discussion. Why must we think we are special because a planet suitable for life eventually developed life? What we don't know is WHY, though. Why CAN'T the universe be the body of God? Why can't there be a why? Just because we know HOW a system works doesn't mean we know what caused it to be in the first place. I heard a terrible argument in a book by an atheist- It compared the universe to a machine, that the gears are not special just because they do the job that they do. But this left open a gaping hole- Machines are intentionally crafted for a purpose, by a conscious creator. If we are gears, if the universe is a machine, why can there not be a reason behind it? That is a strange argument for an atheist to make. :S It sounds a lot like the Watchmaker argument. But the point is, the universe cannot be compared to a clock. A clock is not alive. A clock cannot think. A clock--as most of you will agree--does not have a soul. I'm still waiting for an answer as to when a soul would have appeared in the evolutionary cycle. That's an important point, Artto. EDIT: This occurred to me. Why are we like gears? Why not, excuse the ridiculousness, puddles of mud or something? How can we assume that this is intentional?
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:23 pm
divineseraph Yes, humans can not function without a soul- Just like they can not function without a body or a spirit. Take the soul out of a person and you have a machine- Something that has the parts to run and the vitalization to run on, but without any form of controller- So, some kind of comatose or vegetative state. The brain is the controller! You don't have to control your brain, you are your brain. divineseraph I don't think that was the argument. I was talking about our understanding in context, not fears and wants. There's no difference. You understand your fears and wants. You understand that a tiger eating you is bad, in context, so you better run away. You understand that you like and need to eat. divineseraph All animals have Soul in them (The principle itself), but not necessarily A singular Soul. I have no idea what you meant by that. divineseraph A soul is in place, essentially, in a thing that can harbor them, or so evidence suggests. What evidence? divineseraph It's not always based on complexity, either- Magpies are self-aware, for example, and parrots, even with their small cranial capacity, are nearly as intelligent as dolphins. Size =/= complexity. A large cranial capacity doesn't necessarily mean higher intelligence. A big factor is also how efficiently the brain is wired. You can cut away a part of your brain and other parts can assume its job. divineseraph I heard a terrible argument in a book by an atheist- It compared the universe to a machine, that the gears are not special just because they do the job that they do. But this left open a gaping hole- Machines are intentionally crafted for a purpose, by a conscious creator. If we are gears, if the universe is a machine, why can there not be a reason behind it? That's just over-stretching the analogy. To illustrate: "Life is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get." "Oh OK, I'll just eat my life next time I'm hungry."
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:18 pm
How about this for a thought. What if everything,EVERY LIVING and NONE LIVING THING in the ENTIRE universe was all just one big acciedent? What if,life has no purpose.
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:53 pm
Jumping in, because well, I made the topic. XD The best evidence for a soul I know of is the fact that we aren't happy with this universe. If we were only the product of this universe, an accident, then we really shouldn't want for anything more-we should be completely happy with the environment we were created in. Instead, we long for things like our lives having a purpose, or some sort of heaven, or love. Things that really mean something, that don't necessarily contribute to our survival. We write fairy tales with happy endings. We feel. We grieve at deaths, and rejoice at births. We're uplifted by simple things, like a sunset. Maybe not everyone is; I know there's some souls too jaded or broken or numb to care. But the thing is, we don't just struggle with survival; we question, we search for meaning, we stand in awe. And then we create, whether it be art, or music, or literature. If that's a byproduct of evolution, then I think it's a grand mistake, and more's the pity. But I think that it's impossible that all that we do and think and feel can be attributed to electric impulses between brain cells, and some chemicals. Instead, I believe those are the tools the soul uses to express itself.
...and if anyone really cares to argue against what I've typed, just remember you're arguing that you're thoughts and feelings don't really mean anything because it's just a bunch of sparks and chemicals. wink It's be much more impressive to see someone argue the point, and then argue why those sparks and chemicals mean anything. 3nodding
You don't have a soul, you are a Soul. You have a body. ~Cs Lewis
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