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I was telling a story...? O_o And I think my point was some people don't talk about religion because they don't want to have to think about it, and that doesn't make it go away, and that despite all the different beliefs, people should be less worried about trying to find one that fits them, and be more worried about which one is right....at least, I think that's what I was trying to say. It was about two in the morning at that point, so maybe I wasn't entirely clear myself. sweatdrop

Thought processes are based in chemicals. It is just chemicals reacting in a certain way in our head. Without God, without souls, we're just very temporary meatbags trained by the chemicals and our environment to react a certain way. Life really doesn't have any worth, we're just assembled in such a way to treat it as if it does....

Can you give me a purpose for good will? A purpose that has permanent worth?

I know I'm just randomly jumping in, but that sounds... kind of Morbid... you live your life for a deity, which there's a possibility that there is none, or that your religion is wrong, and you say if it was that way, you'd possibly commit suicide or just live the rest of your life acting as morbid as you are now? Isn't... I don't know if this is the right word... False Happiness?

i like to think of it this way.

first of all, we are tiny, insignificant beings in this vast Multiverse. whatever we do is comparitively unimportant in the grand scheme of things. a time period that seems like forever to us is to the Galaxy we are in like what a minute is to us. all of our wars and revolutions and tyrants and heroes are just specks of dust. our world has been around billions of years before we even sprung up, and it will last trillons more years after our planet dries up.

however, we are also made up of all the same elements that make up that wondrous and god-sized Universe that we inhabit. we are insignificant, but we are simultaneously the very children of the cosmos. and there is something definately magnificent about that.

now, i believe that nobody has any "human rights", and that there is no universal "right and wrong" or "good and evil". there is only what a person is capable and willing to do. now, of course this means that there is no Universal purose, no reason for us to exist. but see, that is exactly why we have this drive to define right and wrong. we create moral values for ourselves, and follow them. this gives us a sense of purpose. it doesn't matter whether it's universally right or not, it's OUR personal reason to live and be and do what we do! and it is a reason. it counts.

it doesn't matter to me whether i am wrong to believe in my Gods. i love them, and i believe they are real, i percieve them, interact with them. are my moral values effected by my worship? maybe, but so what? that's ok by me. because my morals are personal to me.

that's the way i see it. we may be insignificant, but we matter to ourselves and eachother, and that's all that matters.

I perceive it like this...
In the universe, you are alone within a dream land created by something with no intelligence yet with beautiful design.
As soon as that happened, that unintelligent incident caused the universe to hit play, and life sprayed out.
Slowly, oh so slowly, we began to form after many years.
We have no worth what-so-ever, religion or not.
We were created either as pets or just happen to be alive.
Be it as it may, we all live and with living comes knowledge. Along with knowledge also began instinct and common sense as is principles. Principles COME from knowledge.
If you see someone steal from another when they own it, you think of how unfair it was for that person and realize that stealing isn't a nice thing to do, which forms a principle for you.

1.) Meaning doesn't come from something all powerful. It comes from yourself.
2.) You have no meaning anyway if you were created by a deity. Actually, you do but it is a SAD meaning. It's like saying your a hamster for someone.
3.) Deluding yourself isn't healthy. If you want to believe in a religion only for meaning, then "your doing it wrong" as the internet says.

confused wow shinzo, a little harsh, ain't ya think? seriously, i think you are misunderstanding the concept behind worship. we choose to believe in and worship our gods because we love them. we trust in them, and feel like we have some sort of divine parent-figure out there who watches over us, keeps us company, and gives us boons. someone who will warn us when we are doing something they think is a bad idea, and saying "i told you so" when we screw up. and typically, these gods tend to be the kind to always forgive us if we didn't mean to.

it's like being an orphan, and then being adopted. you have this gratidtude, and this warm feeling inside, because you feel more loved than you ever had before. it's not about fear, or purpose, or dogma, or right/wrong. it's about love.

now, @ EB: i agree with Shinzo on the "make your own worthe" thing. let me explain it. we have a drive to live by codes of good and evil, and to have a purpose by which to live. that purpose doesn't exist objectively, so we have to decide for ourselves why we live. that can be a scary thought for some people, i know, i have suffered years of suicidal depression because of the realization that i didn't have any purpose or reason. but i found a cause that makes me feel glad, and i feel that that is my purpose. we each have our own purpose, because we choose what that purpose is. we find it however we do, some by religion, others by causes, and still others simply choose one.