Welcome to Gaia! ::

Those are interesting topics. I will definetly participate in this one, I swear... just as soon as I get done with the guild newspaper and my english paper. So, Monday or Tuesday. Is that okay?

Sure, Maggie, give it some time.

And Peaches:

Interesting observations. The final section was talking about the beauty of emotion, or surrounding emotional events, rather than aesthetics (physical appeal), which was covered earlier.

One thing I really liked here is that you called "true beauty" "euphoric". Not subjective, but "true", and not happy, but "euphoric". And isn't it true? When I find myself taking in the majesty of the world, there is a feeling that is indescribable. It's like my blood is filled with champagne bubbles, somehow enriched. Some days (yesterday, for example), my cheeks hurt from smiling so much. But it was a good ache.

I'm thinking about posting one of my poems here to make my point about emotional beauty. Are there any yeas or nays to be heard?
-LD

Topic#3: To err is human...to forgive is divine
What does this really teach?

Is there ever a time when forgiveness is uncalled for?

Is it truly human to err? Or truly divine to forgive?

What allows us to forgive?

What is at the root of forgiveness?

Is there a seed of godliness in forgiveness?

Late registration...^^;

Actually this wasn't the topic I wanted to start with...I was just meditating this morning..outside in the morning sun/cool...and then this entered my head.
This concept of forgiveness, who exactly do we deem deserving of forgiveness in the first place? I mean, yes your best friend cheats on yu with your significant other and you flare up and hopefully after a while you say "I forgive you". Well fine and good...but what if a plate accidentally hits your leg in the kitchen and leaves a deep gash? Who gets to be forgiven there? the inanimate plate- i mean what's the criteria for forgiveness in the first place? Is it our humanity that allows us to mirror our faults in another person and thus find the seed to forgive? is that why it's so difficult sometimes to forgive ourselves? Perhaps that's the reason for the inherent arrogance in the adage. to err is human and to forgive is divine. So should I forgive the bird that drops on my expensive white shirt and somehow that makes me divine? Or does my plate incident not also warrant forgiveness because it was a plate that fell on me? I wonder if it's like that "being the bigger man?" perhaps that is where the divine comes from? Perhaps me letting go of my fault place me morally above the other person, and thus enter that "divine" aspect of the equation?

Or perhaps its as literal as the saying goes ...humans cannot help but err and thanks to our long term memories for pettiness, forgiveness is left entirely in the realm of the "bigger" entity...

Okay now this doesn''t sound quite as smooth as it did in my head ^^;

First to Kaydell: Forgiveness being what it is, it requires a wrong done, and two sentient beings. In the plate scenario, you must dismiss it. Unless your own clumsiness made it drop, and in that case, you should forgive yourself. But as written earlier, you must accept it first, not forget it. Forgiveness implies, therefore, lessons learned--such as being conscious of what you are doing so you don't get hurt. So then, while making errors is human, correcting them and learning better from them and letting old wounds heal is more than human. Or at least, the better part of human.

And, as time goes on, your thoughts will become more structured. Just give it time, and practice.

Now, for the poem. Kind of long, but expresses my point of unusual emotional beauty.
~~~~~
"Lover's Memory"

You were the first of your kind to know me by my Heart,
And my Heart chose you as much as I did,
To hear its first beating.

I loved you,
But then, my Heart pined for you,
And you were a friend--
But even when you knew my dark desires,
Even when I compromised you with my lusts---!

You accepted me.
You accepted me with a smile, and the ice thawed from my Heart,
And Winter gave up its grip,
And then, you said, almost worriedly--
"We're friends, right?"
And I returned you your smile,
Tears swimming in my eyes,
Your face a vision from a dream,
And I nodded, unable to speak--
To breathe, lest I wake up!--

And I will never forget the next thing that happened--
I had never been so impulsive in my life!--
I hurled myself at you,
Not with teeth or claw,
As I did in my youth to others,
But with my arms open--
And madly enough,
Insanely, foolishly enough--

Your arms wrapped around me like a peace,
Like a guardian angel must hold its child,
And I could have lost myself in that embrace,
But when I looked up,
And I could have kissed you,

You looked at me,
Innocent of my intentions,
And so I squashed them,
Not for me,
Or for you,
But for us.

And after lusting after you,
My love for you grew deeper still,
Because I could see all of your good qualities--
Beauty and Kindness and Warmth--

Warmth! That greatest quality of yours,
That Warmth that so defines you,
That is portrayed in your smile,
Embodied in your eyes,
So very different from everyone else--
Nearly as much as my own!--

And as solid brown as mine are mottled blues and greens and yellows,
Because your eyes see me like no others have seen me.
I can no longer tell if you can see through me--
My roughness, my ugliness, my petulance, my arrogance, my flirtations,
And all my more minor faults and shields--
Because I have so bared myself to you
That you know the falseness of these things,
Or if you always had.

But this does not matter,
Because you always smiled at me.
And I think I chose you because you were so different--
You are one of the only people who could meet my eyes--
But more importantly,
Because your eyes smiled at me.

Looking back on it,
It is no wonder I fell in love with you.
It is no wonder, too, that I can't fall out of love with you.
Because you are so different from the other,
Whose beauty and kindness and intelligence are cold.

It is as if you live, and he is frozen--
But we cannot fault him this--
He makes a wonderful statue,
A perfect ideal,
And it is one both fitting for him and of his own choice,

And it was you--
Not those who usually hold such sway over me--
Who finally made me move on,
And leave the Statue to his own motionless devices,
And pray that Winter leave him--
A Lover's Prayer.

Should it be of any surprise to you
That it was harder to tell you goodbye--
For I thought the last time--
Than my Father and Mother together?

I know how you hate goodbyes,
And I remember, even now,
That bitterest of memories,
When I tried so hard to tell you goodbye,
How much you meant to me,
And once more,
I choked on my sorrow
And shook my head
And hugged you awkwardly,
Before stumbling away.

It was the only time I could not meet your eyes.

That meeting left a void in my heart
That all the world could not fill
But your warm eyes that smiled at me.
And the memories plagued me for three days,
And I thought I would drown on all the unsaid words,
Dammed inside my heart.

And then, I saw you,
Walking with a friend,
And I hounded you,
but could not catch you--
You always were too tall for me
To keep an even stride with--

And I spoke,
Just loudly enough to be sure
That the wind carried my words to you:
"Aren't you going to say goodbye to me?"

You turned and smiled,
As if nothing had happened,
And suddenly nothing had,
And in a few moments,
You and your friend split ways,
And we talked.

At first, we spoke of trivialities,
And then found out that neither one of us
Could go without saying goodbye,
Though it may pain us.

"So this is might be it." I said,
And to this you replied with some sweet nothing
That I needed to hear so badly,
And then you hugged me--
For the first time you hugged me!

And if there is a heaven of my choosing,
Your arms would be it,
Soft and warm,
Strong but gentle,
And smelling so good--
Cliches all, and now I know why--

But above all,
The simple rightness of your arms,
Was simply unmanning,
And for a wonder,
The tears in my eyes danced but did not fall,
And I could see you smile,
And it was perfect.

Yet it had to end,
And we both knew that,
And both regretted our parting,
Even understanding its necessity.

I watched you walk away,
And you threw your head back,
And said, "See you next year!"
And I smiled and shook my head--
"You don't get it, do you?"
I said and thought at the same time,
And you gave me that look--
That look of sheer innocence--
And asked me, "What?"

My heart trembled with words to overflowing
And so, I told you what I had told you
In place of a goodbye for years:
"Love you!"
And my heart put every inch of feeling into it,
And you must have known,
Because, you shouted back,
"Love you too!"
And I'm sure you meant it as well.
And then you were gone,
Just an olive streak across the street,
And I turned away,
And walked back,
Too stunned to cry--
To dance, to laugh!--

But that day,
My soul sang and danced and laughed and, yes, cried too,
Because for the first time,
I knew a heartache that felt decidedly good,
Not unlike the physical ache of a long day's work.

And it erased all of my bitterness,
And replaced it with the mellow sweetness
Of healthy melancholy,
And it filled me with rightness,
A rightness which no metaphor does justice to,

And as I let my feet guide me down the path,
I let my mind wander back through another no less real,
One of sweet little joys and tender blisses,
Stored always and forever,
As the warm smile of rich brown eyes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope everyone enjoyed this!

Love and Vale,
-Valens/Leavaros

Meditation is a mental skill, like thinking and seeing, so I would say it's possible. At least, I haven't heard that it is impossible. Do what suits you best--the end result should be thoughtful and concise. That's what counts.

And.... I'm glad that you liked it. I'm pretty happy with this one--I must admit it's one of my favorites. I'm glad it went over so well; I was a bit worried that I had overdone it when I checked back earlier today and there were no new posts.

But now that it's here, do you kind of understand what I mean about "emotional beauty"? Even though I lost him, even though we could never be lovers, in truth, I loved him. I love him still, and the thought of him being hurt is too much to bear. It is enough that I love him, enough that I even knew him at all; at least now I can protect him. (Even though he's twice my size and built like a Greek God, there are things I can protect him from still.) That short time together, that blissful, wonderful time of love is worth all the heartache and sorrow--in fact....

It changes somehow, doesn't it? Love changes it. Love made the sorrow sweet and the heartache--what did I say?--decidedly good. I would not trade my memory of him for all the riches in the world.

So as for me...I think beauty fueled by emotion is every bit more incredible--every bit more credible--than aesthetics. When you can look at someone, and feel like you are falling into their eyes, surrounded by warmth and strength, you know you're in a good place.

(Actually, I get a similar feeling when I watch Fruits Basket....)

Love and Vale,
-LD

I'm glad you're coming along, Peaches. Now if only Miss Maggie would post....
-LD

Ah, but if your opinion changed because of something she did, then is that not the root of a deeper ugliness? Was there any true beauty in her to begin with? Or was it your thoughts that changed...your outlook on her...?



Well, you say that all beauty is relative--there can be no scale because it is by nature individual. I disagree--I think that all beauty has an absolute value. But I'll explain that after your reply.



Is that so...? In many cases, people we would be attracted to are not attractive because they are unhealthy or unfit. Physical beauty, while mostly shallow, can be a great scale of a person, their genes, their lifestyle, their past experiences, etcetera. I don't think it's fair to just dismiss physical beauty like that.

And "inner beauty"--emotional beauty--can actually be too deep at times: we can see all the good inner qualities a person possesses, but they could be complete slobs or completely incompetent or even unable to live on their own. As you have said, you can't have one without the other. And I wouldn't.



Are there anythings that you cannot live without in a partner. For me, that's easy--they have to be male. Right off the bat. Kindness, to some degree. Intelligence, common sense. Some semblance of chemistry with me.



Oh..... I was just trying to be funny.... sweatdrop

Sorry I didn't get to everything (no time!), I wanted to hit the key points. I'm glad you two liked the poem--what was your favorite part?

Love and Vale,
-Leavaros

All good things. Now, to further the topic, can beauty--including inner beauty--be cultivated? Can the seeds of goodness be sown that are not necessarily present? Can we rub off on one another?
-LD