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 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:22 pm
You, Lion, could not be more wrong.
I'm not being arrogant at all. It is you, refusing time after time to get off your High Horse that is causing so many problems.
First, if you really Loved someone, you wouldn't try to destroy their marriage, no matter how much it hurts you.
And again, when you say that Love creates the same as Hate does, you refuse to see the truth, instead deluding yourself with the immediate issue. Tthere is a great deal of difference between admiration and envy and self-consciousness and selfishness. And there is a huge difference between Love and lust.
Because you see, those people who have preached "peace and love" almost always try to approach things through war. Trying to establish world peace like that is like trying to drive through a mountain to get to the other side. We have to try things a different way, we must find a way that exercises the things that are our end goal: harmony, peace, and Love.
I agree that people are too selective in their Loving, and that it is difficult to see past that sometimes, but surely that is better than Hating something and sticking to that Hate for life.
But not all do.
For example, have I Loved you selectively? Have I Loved anything selectively? You ascribe Love to a thing between people, like you can't Love Life, or a sunrise, or a sunset, or an animal. Love can be more than an emotion, or a relationship: it can be a lifestyle. And it is certainly a healthier one than Hate.
It would be so easy to get mad at you, and to Hate you because of it. But I'm still here, right? I'm still talking with you, trying so hard to help, but sometimes I have to wonder if you even hear half of what I say. If I Hated you, I would simply stop this discussion and be done with it. I would do what everyone does, and just wait until another age rolls around, and we can try this then, because it will be better then.
No. It won't, because someone has to stand up and say, I am not afraid to Love. And, well, if that person is me, then so be it. Mama was one before me, and I've met a few who have tried like she did, to Love everyone as much as they can.
It isn't Love that's the problem, and I think we can all agree upon that but you. It's the lack of Love for one another, for Life, for a better world, and a brighter future that stands in our way.
Love is just as intoxicating as hate is. The only real difference is that when you Love--the kind of Love that deserves a capital "L"--no excuse is necessary.
Love and Vale, Lion, as always.
~Leavaros Dapple
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:08 pm
Leavaros ShaDragon, all you've done here: Shadowdragon087 LD, hatred can be powerful, though don't let it overcome you, the power may feel good, but trust me, i've almost let it take me over, it isn't a good feeling once you look back on it. I may seem like a nice and calm person, but like most, i've had my trouble with hate it exists in everyone. ...Is reiterate exactly what I said. yes i noticed that i didn't catch the part from you "as it leaves" Leavaros Let me clear something up for you: Hate is what leads to all sin. Hate does not seek balance, or beauty, or thanksgiving and forgiveness. It seeks to debase that balance, and replace it with a terrible sameness that is simply horrifying to see. I know of no Love that can lead to any of the "seven deadly sins". I should've been more clear on what part i was talking about, hate or love, it was hate, Leavaros What Love is greedy? Why would you "envy" someone you Love? Is it not better--yes, better--to admire someone? Why would you let "wrath" befall someone you Love? What Love could allow gluttony? And lust, pride--these things are not sins in their proper places. And when you truly Love someone, you take "pride" in them for being them, and would never allow yourself to "lust" if it was not the proper time for one, or the both of you. It is Hate that turns admiration to "envy" and thanksgiving to "gluttony" and self-knowledge to "greed". I know of nothing that Hatred cannot worsen, just as there is nothing Love cannot better. To Hate is to seethe poison into Life. by no means did i say that love has to describe lust, i just said it can depending on who you would talk to. you don't have to positively use love to describe lust, though if someone doesn't get what you mean love may be better to use. everyone in their own way has an understanding of love, yours is the deepest i've ever seen it go. Leavaros I'm sorry about your friends. That must be hard to go through, and painful besides. hey, i have met you and some other members that i talk to every now and then so, it's no biggy. not only that but it gives me time to work on my books and school work, im in college, trust me, you'll need time. though i'm not completely abandoned, i go hang out with my cousin or other friend that's still in the state, the girl(engaged) I've referred to in this thread. my friendships haven't been cut off completely and i'm not saying that they should since college is harder, though rather that the fun nights out and just not doing much should slow.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:16 pm
That cleaared just about everything up, ShaDragon. Except for the "Love and Lust" part. (I just had to name it--might end up making a Lesson out of it.)
To call Love Lust is like saying that the rainbow is red. Which is entirely incorrect. Red is in the rainbow--as it is within the spectrum of light--but not every color in that rainbow is red. (I'm too tired to properly explain it tonight, but I feel bad for making you wait that time, and want to be prompter with you.)
Love and Vale,
~Leavaros Dapple
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:34 pm
Wikipedia Lust is any intense desire or craving for self gratification. Lust can mean strictly sexual lust, although it is also common to speak of a "lust for life", "lust for blood (bloodlust for short)", or a "lust for power" or other goals. The Greek word which translates as lust is epithymia (επιθυμια), which also is translated into English as "to covet". this is the definition that wikipedia gives for lust. I'm not saying that love should be in the description of lust, but look "Lust for power"?? or "Love for power" sometimes lust is a strong love for something. though lust is when you want something yes, but when you love someone so much that you want them wouldn't that possibly be led into lust? so love can led to lust, i'm not saying love=lust or visa versa. gluttony, no contest, i see no gluttony coming from love, i take gluttony back, keep it for hate though. greed, if you love someone who loves someone else, then you try to take that person away from them so that they will love you, i see that as greed, you want so you take. wrath, no love does not lead to wrath, however the breaking of love between two people may be wrath, or anger. pride, Wikipedia Pride is one of the seven deadly sins which refers to a strong sense of self-respect, a refusal to be humiliated as well as joy in the accomplishments of oneself or a person, group, or object that one identifies with. According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary, Proud comes from late Old English prud, probably from Old French prude "brave, valiant" (11th century), from Latin prode "advantageous, profitable", from prodesse "be useful". The sense of "having a high opinion of oneself", not in French, may reflect the Anglo-Saxons' opinion of the Norman knights who called themselves "proud", like the French knights preux. "Having a high opinion of oneself" or refraised, Extreme love for oneself Pride may be a high level of love. Wikipedia Envy is an emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another’s superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it."[1] At the core of envy seems to be an upward social comparison that threatens a person's self-esteem: another person has something that the envier considers to be important to have. However, what is envied could also be something that is only of personal importance to the envier, even if what the other person has is of little significance in his or her society, or even seen as a sign of inferior status. If the other person is perceived to be similar to the envier, the aroused envy will be particularly intense, because it signals to the envier that it just as well could have been him or her who had the desired object. [2][3]. envy, loving something about someone so much that you must have it, more than likely can be put together with greed. sloth, no contest to this as well, i take back sloth.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:57 pm
I think you might be confusing "Love" with "like".
Narcissism (Extreme pride in oneself) is not self-love, it is self-worship. Let's not get those two confused.
"Lust" in the terms of the "seven deadly sins" does not take that context.
When you Love someone truly, you put their concerns before your own. I don't see how anyone could be greedy like that and use love as an excuse. It's sick, really.
...Wrath.... Now on that, you are right. If someone tries to harm something I Love, I will try to stop them. At all costs. I think anyone would really.....
Once, I tried to pick up a baby raven that had fallen out of it's nest. I had just petted my cat on the way out to the park where I found the little fledgling, and so I'm sure I smelled of her. When I got close, black streaks began to whizz right by me, and they left their angry caws behind. They would have broken their necks if they had hit me, but it didn't matter to them--only the safety of their baby.
So...Wrath. If Love is tested, and found true, and stolen away...Wrath would develop. Almost undoubtedly.
Of course, animals know no revenge. Once something dies, they leave it. That separates Wrath from Vengeance.
...I've always thought that humans could seriously take a hint, here.
Love and Vale,
~Leavaros Dapple
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:14 pm
woah, woah, hold on just a minute, and let me simply say that i'm not saying that love should and has to be used to describe lust, i'm just saying that sometimes it can be used.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:26 pm
I'm glad that's been cleared up.
-LD
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:32 pm
well i had to come out and say it, i believe I've said it 3 times now, though not as simply straight forward as that.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:26 pm
Well, it seems to have gotten quite stuffy in here. So being the wise old lion I am, I am stepping out of this ring of debate. Once again, my opinions have been voraciously stripped of any worth and left for the ravens to peck at.
I would like to say its been fun in here,
the Lion
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:37 pm
I would have to wonder if we now are confusing "opinions" with another, less dignified word, but I'm sure, as always, that there is exceedingly little I can do to change your mind, my Lion.
Love and Vale,
-LD
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:06 pm
*To Lion* Stuffy? two people going back and forth is stuffy? i can't wait to see what you would call crowded. yeesh, i figure if it's more than three then it's stuffy. crowded would be more than 5
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:03 pm
Don't beat your intelligence too hard by miss-interpreting my overly polite use of the word "stuffy." This, going back and forth, is pointless now, as no matter how I try to assertain some sort of mutual understanding, I'm met with not but a brick wall of teenage scrutiny and supposed omnipotence. If I wanted my opinions sullied I'd go to an open air forum and discuss only the pros of abortion, but since I have better things to do, I won't.
Let's see if anyone else has the stones to voice a differing opinion than that of an angst ridden youth.
the Lion
P.S. Don't make me into the bad guy Leavaros, I'm not the one expecting everyone to conform to a single thought about a near pointless subject.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:08 pm
ah ok, i'll stay back from arguing with you though first comment on that, i'm 20 not a teenager,
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:09 pm
Shadowdragon087 ah ok, i'll stay back from arguing with you though first comment on that, i'm 20 not a teenager, I wasn't refering to you.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:12 pm
ah well sorry, but now you know,
any way, it did kind of go out of hand, i agree with that. and i see that debating it was good and all, but no matter what 2 people do, they can't change each others minds once they are set, and i believe from what I read that both yours and LD's are.
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