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 Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:33 am
Hummusalia Devin K. Truessence DavidOshi Devin K. Truessence SoyBoy Joshua
I never said you couldn't eat meat, I said there was no reason for it and I couldn't believe it was even being debated in an environmental guild amongst people that are otherwise knowledgeable to what's going on in the world and what needs to be done to conserve it.
Meat eating hurts your general health and well being, is unprovoked murder, and the biggest thing up for discussion here – damages the environment. There's absolutely no reason for it or way to defend it. And if your vegetarian you yourself are testament to that... I'm sure you made that choice for a reason, mind sharing why? I'll bet 10 to 1 that it's because you acknowledge the aftermath of meat consumption and try to make a difference.You do know that you can cut out vegitation in your diet as well, right? I need to find the source, but you can simply survive on water everyday and then watch the sun rise and sun set. The sun's rays give you nutrition and vital vitamins that all are needed to sustain your body. Well Devin is right, you do need the suns rays for skin health and other purposes. I do have to say; I disagree fully with the statements by SoyBoy, "no reason for it". Hmm well give me what links you've been reading if you would because in my research there are a few reasons for consuming meat! I would also like to point out that vegetables and plants are living things as well, and in a way, they do have a soul or life-force present because they sustain life! Ok, so you don't eat meat and thats fine by me, there are some health benefits to not eating meat but you are still eating living things even if you are a vegetarian, "unprovoked murder"!Everything moves in cycles and this is not excluded! A good point exactly. ^_^ About "murder": I Do think about the plants I eat. I am extremely thankful that they sacrifice their lives, their seeds, and their fruit for me. That is why you have to give up what you take. You are correct, it IS a cycle. I inhale what the plants exhale and they do the same. We live for eachother. You need to be selfish in order to live on Earth, but you need to be selfless in order to live in harmony with it. It is all about balance. For me, eating meat and dairy and honey and buying leather and wool and new clothes and even eating too much salad and beans is tippping the scale on the "selfish" side. Well like I said before. I eat meat so I don't create bias. I don't like leather personally, unless the cow was killed for food originally. I like how the Native Americans had it. They thought of non-human animals as their brothers and left nothing to waste. I think that's the way people should view things as such with that certain concept, you know?
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:35 am
mouseofHELL Hi, I'm new to the guild, and personally, I'm a vegetarian. The rest of my family is not, and our opinions differ. I quite enjoy it. mrgreen  Welcome to the guild. ^_^
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:25 am
Devin K. Truessence Hummusalia Devin K. Truessence DavidOshi Devin K. Truessence SoyBoy Joshua
I never said you couldn't eat meat, I said there was no reason for it and I couldn't believe it was even being debated in an environmental guild amongst people that are otherwise knowledgeable to what's going on in the world and what needs to be done to conserve it.
Meat eating hurts your general health and well being, is unprovoked murder, and the biggest thing up for discussion here – damages the environment. There's absolutely no reason for it or way to defend it. And if your vegetarian you yourself are testament to that... I'm sure you made that choice for a reason, mind sharing why? I'll bet 10 to 1 that it's because you acknowledge the aftermath of meat consumption and try to make a difference.You do know that you can cut out vegitation in your diet as well, right? I need to find the source, but you can simply survive on water everyday and then watch the sun rise and sun set. The sun's rays give you nutrition and vital vitamins that all are needed to sustain your body. Well Devin is right, you do need the suns rays for skin health and other purposes. I do have to say; I disagree fully with the statements by SoyBoy, "no reason for it". Hmm well give me what links you've been reading if you would because in my research there are a few reasons for consuming meat! I would also like to point out that vegetables and plants are living things as well, and in a way, they do have a soul or life-force present because they sustain life! Ok, so you don't eat meat and thats fine by me, there are some health benefits to not eating meat but you are still eating living things even if you are a vegetarian, "unprovoked murder"!Everything moves in cycles and this is not excluded! A good point exactly. ^_^ About "murder": I Do think about the plants I eat. I am extremely thankful that they sacrifice their lives, their seeds, and their fruit for me. That is why you have to give up what you take. You are correct, it IS a cycle. I inhale what the plants exhale and they do the same. We live for eachother. You need to be selfish in order to live on Earth, but you need to be selfless in order to live in harmony with it. It is all about balance. For me, eating meat and dairy and honey and buying leather and wool and new clothes and even eating too much salad and beans is tippping the scale on the "selfish" side. Well like I said before. I eat meat so I don't create bias. I don't like leather personally, unless the cow was killed for food originally. I like how the Native Americans had it. They thought of non-human animals as their brothers and left nothing to waste. I think that's the way people should view things as such with that certain concept, you know?
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:29 am
Devin K. Truessence mouseofHELL Hi, I'm new to the guild, and personally, I'm a vegetarian. The rest of my family is not, and our opinions differ. I quite enjoy it. mrgreen Welcome to the guild. ^_^
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:13 pm
rikuHEART Devin K. Truessence Hummusalia Devin K. Truessence DavidOshi Well Devin is right, you do need the suns rays for skin health and other purposes. I do have to say; I disagree fully with the statements by SoyBoy, "no reason for it". Hmm well give me what links you've been reading if you would because in my research there are a few reasons for consuming meat! I would also like to point out that vegetables and plants are living things as well, and in a way, they do have a soul or life-force present because they sustain life! Ok, so you don't eat meat and thats fine by me, there are some health benefits to not eating meat but you are still eating living things even if you are a vegetarian, "unprovoked murder"!Everything moves in cycles and this is not excluded! A good point exactly. ^_^ About "murder": I Do think about the plants I eat. I am extremely thankful that they sacrifice their lives, their seeds, and their fruit for me. That is why you have to give up what you take. You are correct, it IS a cycle. I inhale what the plants exhale and they do the same. We live for eachother. You need to be selfish in order to live on Earth, but you need to be selfless in order to live in harmony with it. It is all about balance. For me, eating meat and dairy and honey and buying leather and wool and new clothes and even eating too much salad and beans is tippping the scale on the "selfish" side. Well like I said before. I eat meat so I don't create bias. I don't like leather personally, unless the cow was killed for food originally. I like how the Native Americans had it. They thought of non-human animals as their brothers and left nothing to waste. I think that's the way people should view things as such with that certain concept, you know? I agree with this as well! I believe that the Native Americans had it right not to waste what nature had provided and to treat everything as their equal. They would kill animals to eat and gather plants for medicine, they also had their own set of codes to live by which focused on treating their environment and the animals with respect!
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:48 pm
DavidOshi Well if you really think about it zoos do the same thing, but we consume the product in a different fashion. I'm not bashing zoo's because they give many animals homes and such. I think there's a big difference between zoos and eating meat, though, because zoos are very important to maintaining the health of the species they house. They've been instrumental in helping to preserve and restore endangered species such as wolves, eagles, and even pandas (the mortality rate of infant pandas in captivity used to be 100%, but now the survival rate is almost 100% and China is beginning to prepare for introducing some pandas into the wild to help their population). Plants grown and killed for that purpose is, in my mind, helping out the environment; I don't see how it helps the environment to have plants killed so I can have ham on my sandwich. Hummusalia Bees use their honey as a vital food source for the colony during the winter and when there is no pollen available for them. If lots of hungry humans eat their honey, how much is going to be left for them? Beekeepers have a vested interest in insuring that their hives are healthy and survive through the winter; they don't take all the honey, and if the beekeeper is at all worried about the amount of food left he or she will supplement with another form of food for the hive. Moreover, hives aren't exactly that great at regulating how much honey they have. sweatdrop New hives, in particular, often starve during the winter even if no honey is harvested. Hummusalia Also, just like the majority of other animal-based industries, the bees are abused. No, they aren't abused. Every time somebody's claimed they're abused, it's usually based on that person either being ignorant or having an agenda (wanting money, usually). Hummusalia Since they are inbred, one disease or sickness can wipe the whole colony out A colony comes from only ONE queen; that inbreeding is natural. It isn't from beekeepers. That's the way a hive operates. Hummusalia (and the bee keepers exterminate the colony anyway if there is a disease). Absolutely false. Beekeepers treat their bees with medicine of the hives become ill. Even logic suggests this is true, since a hive of bees is expensive and a large, well-established hive is more than worth the cost of medicine. The only time beekeepers don't do that is if the disease is something which CAN'T be treated (like foul brood, or late stage varoa mite) and the beekeepers have to make sure the disease doesn't spread; in the case of foul brood, they're legally required to burn the hive body, because it spreads so quickly and is automatically fatal to the bees. Hummusalia There are ways to make honey out of plants, too. No, there aren't. Honey is necter and pollen which has been partially digested and then regurgitated by bees; we can't mimic that process artifically. Hummusalia It is also about sticking with the vegan ethics. Vegan means no animal products, and honey fits the category. But see, that's my point...why say "no animal products" simply for the purpose of saying no animal products? Beekeeping doesn't harm the bees; if anything, it helps them out. Honey is a cruelty-free product. So, why cut it out simply because it was made via animals? That doesn't make sense. It's strange, too, because most of the complaints regarding how bees (and certain other animals) are treated revolve around how they would fare in an ideal "natural" environment versus how they are treated by beekeepers, etc. Except that, in the case of honeybees, they wouldn't be able to live in most areas where they currently are without human intervention; heck, if it wasn't for beekeepers doing their best to make sure that their bees weren't swarming, thousands and thousands of hives would be dying each winter. Compare the health of a honeybee hive which is tended by a beekeeper with a feral colony...that is, if you can find a feral colony, since most of them die their first winter. :/ Diseases which would otherwise ravage the population are kept in check by the medicines which beekeepers provide to their hives. And here's another thing which is seriously underappreciated: who do you think was leading the early assault against pesticides and fought so hard against chemicals like DDT? Beekeepers! Hummusalia Vitamin b12 comes from bacteria. It is consentrated in animal meat because they eat the plants from the ground without washing it, like we do. (rest of it snipped) I have never, ever heard that bacteria in our mouths produce digestable B12. Are you certain that they're the same kind of bacteria? See, e.g. Vegetarian Society: Vitamin B12Quote: The only reliable unfortified sources of vitamin B12 are meat, dairy products and eggs. There has been considerable research into possible plant food sources of B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds and algae have all been proposed as possible sources of B12. However, analysis of fermented soya products, including tempeh, miso, shoyu and tamari, found no significant B12. Spirulina, an algae available as a dietary supplement in tablet form, and nori, a seaweed, have both appeared to contain significant amounts of B12 after analysis. However, it is thought that this is due to the presence of compounds structurally similar to B12, known as B12 analogues. These cannot be utilised to satisfy dietary needs. Assay methods used to detect B12 are unable to differentiate between B12 and it's analogues, Analysis of possible B12 sources may give false positive results due to the presence of these analogues. Researchers have suggested that supposed B12 supplements such as spirulina may in fact increase the risk of B12 deficiency disease, as the B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism. The current nutritional consensus is that no plant foods can be relied on as a safe source of vitamin B12. Bacteria present in the large intestine are able to synthesise B12. In the past, it has been thought that the B12 produced by these colonic bacteria could be absorbed and utilised by humans. However, the bacteria produce B12 too far down the intestine for absorption to occur, B12 not being absorbed through the colon lining. ... Vegans are recommended to ensure their diet includes foods fortified with vitamin B12.
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:06 pm
Tahpenes DavidOshi Well if you really think about it zoos do the same thing, but we consume the product in a different fashion. I'm not bashing zoo's because they give many animals homes and such. Tahpenes I think there's a big difference between zoos and eating meat, though, because zoos are very important to maintaining the health of the species they house. They've been instrumental in helping to preserve and restore endangered species such as wolves, eagles, and even pandas (the mortality rate of infant pandas in captivity used to be 100%, but now the survival rate is almost 100% and China is beginning to prepare for introducing some pandas into the wild to help their population). Plants grown and killed for that purpose is, in my mind, helping out the environment; I don't see how it helps the environment to have plants killed so I can have ham on my sandwich. Yeah I understand your point because its a generlization and a stretch to compare them! I dunno I guess I'm just not willing to take meat out of my diet all together!
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:07 pm
i'm personally vegetairan, though i have nothign agianst those that aren't. i undestand that humans are naturally omnbivores. i also know the only vitamin not found in a vegan diet is b-12.(whihc is why i'm not vegan) i can get that from dairy and eggs though. i don't really ahveanythign against killing fro food. i jsut find it unnessasry, so i don't. i plan to be free range egg anmd dairy products when i get older.
is everyone here either completely vegan or a meat eater?
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:00 am
I'm vegetarian for the most part, but I occasionaly eat meat if I'm at someone else's house.
I don't really like to have meat rotting in my colon, though......
Well really, I guess you could call me a part-time vegan.
Because I don't eat eggs or drink milk, either...
eek
But I just realized that.
Anyways... I'm TRYING to cut out on meat all together, even when Im at someone else's house, because I always feel sick after eating it, and I usually feel really guilty, too.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:51 pm
I'm like half vegetarian anyways just cuz the only kind of meat I like is chicken breast and like...some salmon. Otherwise I don't eat it simply because I don't like it. Plus I HATE milk. I like soymilk. :9
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:51 pm
I'm thinking I might become partially vegetarian this year during school... the food is pretty much aweful in my cafeteria this year. Normally, at least every other day I can find something on the main line that looks edible. This year, I think there's been two instances where I've hazarded it, and both times I've felt sick afterwards. So I've been eating a lot of salad... I'm just worried about not getting enough protein with my, uh... limited options (aka, our cafeteria sucks. Period.)
Could never do vegan though. I love milk, and cheese, and ice cream, mmm. Don't eat eggs though. Can't stand them. I guess I'm a partial vegetarian simply for taste. *shrug*
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:00 pm
AriaStarSong I'm thinking I might become partially vegetarian this year during school... the food is pretty much aweful in my cafeteria this year. Normally, at least every other day I can find something on the main line that looks edible. This year, I think there's been two instances where I've hazarded it, and both times I've felt sick afterwards. So I've been eating a lot of salad... I'm just worried about not getting enough protein with my, uh... limited options (aka, our cafeteria sucks. Period.) Could never do vegan though. I love milk, and cheese, and ice cream, mmm. Don't eat eggs though. Can't stand them. I guess I'm a partial vegetarian simply for taste. *shrug*
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:16 pm
If everyone went vegetarian the damage done to our environemtn would be astoundingly worse than any damage wrought by slaughterhouses. The amount of plants it would take and the amount of spoace and resources and chemicals needed to complete the task would be phenomonal, tkaing up nearly all remaining greenspace.
I didn't enjoy watching slaughterhouse videos anymore than the next person, but I believe in moderation. Now I still think vegetarian is fine, as long as it remains a minority group, so that our Earth can sustain your ideals and the rest of us as well.
I also strongly believe in wild harvested meat. A bow and arrow and some camo clothes and you've got fresh meat. They evolved to be predated on and we evolved to eat them. If you don't eat the bunnies and the bambis than they will totally decimate the understory of our forests until it's bare and they are dying from the starvation and disease associated with high population numbers.
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:53 am
Devin K. Truessence Well like I said before. I eat meat so I don't create bias. I don't like leather personally, unless the cow was killed for food originally. I like how the Native Americans had it. They thought of non-human animals as their brothers and left nothing to waste. I think that's the way people should view things as such with that certain concept, you know? Exactly. I don't believe in wearing furs because most are killed strictly for the fur. Same with ivory/tortoise shell/snakeskin. I wear leather....because, frankly, the rest of the cow is used. It would be a waste otherwise of a perfectly good skin, seeing as you eat the meat. As for honey, beekeepers take only a portion of honey from beehives, and most bees aren't even harmed. They have plenty to maintain the hive. I don't drink milk for the most part anyways because I'm lactose-intolerant. And, I eat meat because I'm an omnivore. You wouldn't blame a wolf for killing and eating its prey, would you? Why would you blame me for doing the same? I eat both plants and animals. It isn't "a choice" to me. Raccoons, bears....they're both omnivores. They still eat both plants and animals. We are physically built to eat both, and therefore, I do. I understand and respect any vegan or vegetarian's choice not to eat meat and/or animal products. And yes, I know I kill hundreds upon hundreds of animals over my lifetime. It's the way nature works. I'm not too fond of the way these animals are being killed, though. Personally, I'd prefer if we were all in charge of hunting and killing our own meat. There'd be a lot more vegetarians very quickly, I bet.
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:21 am
i am also a omnivore ive been gone a while sorry
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