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 Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:21 pm
xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup Oh? And even assuming that that is true, please prove to me that that religion is not Hinduism... Besides the obvious (whited out because it could be considered offensive->) like it seems more like a drug trip then anything else (I did warn you)? If it is Hinduism, why don't the Hindu gods show themselves to nonbelievers? What keeps reincarnation going? How is it numerically possible? How is it possible at all? And multi armed gods? I have nothing against the Hindus, but nothing I've seen in that religion seems very plausible. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it. And the number one reason: in Christianity faith is a huge thing. In Christianity, faith is eternal and powerful. How many other religions rely that strongly upon faith? Does Hinduism?
Why does YHWH not show Himself to non-believers? I have never heard Him, even when I was desperately looking for reasons to believe.
How is reincarnation less believable than the idea that, based on our devotion to a god that may or may not exist, we go to eternal paradise or eternal suffering? Really? And as I understand it there is no death in Heaven or Hell, but people are constantly being added. How is that numerically possible?
And really? The multiple arms is the thing that stumped you?
In any case, in my eyes, relying so heavily on faith is a bad thing. It means that there is absolutely no reason to believe. It is the enemy of logicI don't much about it I haven't read a book about a Hindu yet), but what I do know doesn't sound very logical. Anything about the religion that seems true to you, go ahead and bring it up. I'd love to know why it might work. He does. Read JesusFreaks, or any of the numerous conversion stories where people randomly become Christian because of a revelation. It happened to my mom. Because it's based on a single factor whom has revealed Himself throughout the ages, and who is the driving force behind the whole thing. How is it possible that Jupiter has a tornado three times the size of Earth? xd And the elephant head. I don't get that either. XD It's not. It's a powerful motivator, it gives hope, and usually there are reasons to believe. My mom believes because of the visions she's had, and because she's felt His Presence. I believe because I trust my mom more then the world, and I've met Him too, and He's unbelievably awesome. Plus I don't want to live in a world without Him. I don't see purpose to that. You want logic? What's the logic behind striving for happiness when it all will all disappear? Or the logic behind pursuing success when it's doomed to crumble? Without God, all we're doing is building sandcastles. But that's beside the point. Don't put faith down as being 'no reason to believe'. That's following blindly, and it's not what the Christians I've met do. Christians do puzzle things out, they do question things, they do use logic (read Mere Christianity if you don't believe me on that one); they just know how to trust God too.
Well, people also claim to have seen Bigfoot or to have been possessed by demons. Every religion has cases of this, but when it boils down to it, unless it actually happens to me I can't bring myself to regard it as anything higher than wishful thinking.
To say that your god does or influences anything is to already assume that He exists. If He doesn't exist, none of that is valid.
Well, yeah, that's basically what I think. I think that a lot of things that people do in desperate attempts to be remembered after death is because of some glitch in our system that makes it hard for us to grasp the idea of our own mortality. Like, think of how people plan out their own funerals. What a silly concept. It's not like you're going to be there. XD
I think if you really want answers to those questions, you should take a soc/psych class. But I don't think that you do want answers.
What's the difference between faith and following blindly?Well Christianity's also came from an entirely different culture, and it's bringing in tons of members from all sorts of different cultures. Why do you think that is? 'Wishful thinking' has brought people back from the edge of despair...that's nice to know. I'm only here because of 'wishful thinking', and there's plenty of people who risk their lives over 'wishful thinking'...excuse me if I think that's (insert word that denotes 'stupid' but is not insulting). Well there's the 'if'. I'm gonna stay on the side of it that knows He does, because I lose nothing by assuming God exists. That 'glitch' is the part of us that remembers we should've had forever. We were made for eternity. I took psychology last semester, but I had to skip sociology in favor of watercoloring. But really, I would like to know. I do want answers, even if I think I already have the truth. Well for one thing if I 'followed blindly', I'd want to be one of those Christians who thought homosexuality was fine. It'd help me fit in. 'Following blindly' is not questioning and being trapped in a belief without caring about whether it's true or not. Having faith means trusting a God you've seen evidence for, for things you don't understand yet. It's the difference being able to question, and being too scared to.
Frankly, there are stories of revelations and visions in every religion. And to be honest, it's probably much more common in religions older than Christianity. And the only thing that sets the Christian ones apart from all of the others is that living in a largely Christian country, they're pretty common here. But as I've said before I've yet to see any proof that any of these are actually valid and I've no reason to believe that it has actually happened to anybody.
Well you say that Hinduism makes no logical sense, yet you're proud of the fact that you put faith in place of logic. How is that fair?
Sociology and Psychology will give you answers to all of your questions about human behavior. But they are both divided fields and you have to think for yourself to determine which views you agree with.
The people who believe that homosexuality is wrong just because a religious official tells them to believe that it is are the people who follow blindly! Sure, there are parts of the Bible that may be interpreted as disapproving of homosexuality, but we ignore a lot of stuff in the bible. People are quick to plug the bible when it comes to laying with a man as one lays with a women, but seem to forget about the parts about killing Pagans and slavery. And half of the verses are not even the Christian's books! Prop 8- The Musical
Can you yourself honestly think of one single reason why homosexuality is immoral? Actually wrong? Can you seriously think of one reason other than "The Bible/God said it"?
Because that, believing something just because God kind of maybe said it is blind faith.
EDIT: I know that I'm being harsh. And I know that other people are too. But as an atheist I know first-hand how hard it is to try not to offend somebody and be respectful of their beliefs but at the same time debate them.
So when you do things like liken an entire religion to an acid trip while knowing almost nothing about it, it would be like if I were to say "Well your religion is just worship of a zombie Jew, right? That's weird to me and therefore wrong."
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:25 pm
rmcdra xxEternallyBluexx True. But why would it make sense for multiple gods to exist? Because there's a distinction between God and gods. To me God is the only one worthy of worship because God is the only one that was willing to show himself to me. Other gods they may exist but I haven't interacted with them and haven't proven themselves worthy of worship to me. At this point in my life, even if another god revealed themselves to me I couldn't betray my God. Quote: If there is one omnipotent one, why should he tolerate lesser gods, especially if they're evil? Why does God tolerate Satan? God's goodness is based in love. If people wish to be away from him and with another, why should God force one to love him or be with him? Quote: And I try to be tolerant, but I'm never gonna say you're gods are good or equal to mine, even though I might want to. Same here but what do you mean by "good"? To me, God's goodness is agape and that is how God is revealed. Other than the Prime Mover in what little of Vedic religions I am familiar with, I don't know of any other God that fits the bill. Quote: I love myths, I'd love it if god/desses like Artemis or Hephaestus were real and benevolent, but as a Christian I can't. Doesn't mean you can't believe in them, just that you are not to worship them. Paul talks about not serving false gods quite frequently yet doesn't deny that they exist. Quote: I love my own God too much to do that to Him, and I don't think those other gods are real, or if they're real that they're not demons in disguise. They have to many human qualities for me to call them demons, but still not worthy of worship to me. Quote: Sorry, but I'm too loyal to Jesus to do that. sweatdrop It's good to be loyal though your reasons for discounting the possibility of other gods even existing seem to be limited to they can't be real. Quote: And part of tolerance is tolerating a Christian's need to witness. wink Very true but there is also less confrontational and more loving ways of witnessing that many people tend to be ignorant of. I don't think there are other gods worthy of worship, or God would've said the other gods were okay and not false. He doesn't, He lets us choose, but when we choose Him, He warns us away from things that aren't good for us. And the explanation I've heard for Him tolerating satan, is once He destroys evil He's gonna destroy all evil, including people who still have sin nature (and all people alive according to my brother, because we wear corrupt flesh). So He doesn't destroy evil for our sake, according to that way of thinking. Why does God not want us to worship other gods if they aren't false or evil? If they were okay, then shouldn't worshipping them be okay? I still don't believe in them. >< As characters I love the Greek/Roman gods and goddesses are awesome, but in a world God controls they hold too much power, and they just aren't believable. It'd be a bit too much like believing in some literary character like Gandalf or Saphira. They're too human to be trustworthy. I don't know if they're real or not. I don't think there's other good gods because then Jesus wouldn't be the only way. It's easier to say they're not real then that they're evil demons who just want to mislead people, but honestly I don't know about them. Agreed, but in the story the man's witnessing was entirely warranted. I do think there's some ways that are a lot more effective though, like the footwashing they do for the homeless in Washington. They don't witness while they do it, they just serve and let their actions speak for them.
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:43 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Artto xxEternallyBluexx Also, in a religiously tolerant country like America we should have Hindu accounts of gods revealing themselves to them, if they exist. I think we don't have them because they don't. There's 0.4% of Hindus living in the US. You better try and look for revelations in India, where there are actually Hindus walking about. And Hinduism isn't a simple as you think. It isn't just worshipping gods with many arms and elephant heads. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism I'll look for them if I ever get to go to India. I think it'll be quite a while before that's a possibility though, I'd love to know if there's any accounts on revelations around for any religion besides Christianity and Judaism. I don't think it's simple, just that it doesn't have a lot of truth or logic behind it. Thank you!  You have yet to explain how Hinduism is "illogical", let alone compared to your own beliefs. How is it any less likely for there to be multiple creators, or multiple faces of God as many Hindus believe? Before you say "My God says so", their Gods say the opposite. And they have majority rule. The logic is much more flowing than "we are being punished for the sins of the first humans who were tricked into eating magic fruit by a walking snake, so now we have to pray to a miracle-doing dead guy to get back on God's good side."- It starts with the cosmos and the world being a weave, with everything connected by the Brahman. All things are one thing in the Brahman. (It is what I consider God, though it connects to YHWH in the role, so I consider God to be YHWH) The Brahman is everything in it's spiritual core, that becomes physical matter. Individual souls are called Atman. Karma is how we transcend the mortal coil, so our Atman can meet up with the Brahman. Karma is done by deeds- If we do evil, our soul is "weighed down", and kept on the lower planes. If we do good, we float "up" to the higher planes. This is where the idea of reincarnation comes from, when we shed our mortal shell the Atman, according the reincarnation theory, goes to one of several layers depending on it's weight- There is a "god realm", which is basically heaven, "hell realm" and earth, with a few in between. That dynamic system of spiritual connection with everything, which is backed by Alchemy and science, makes much more sense and uses much more logic than the biblical creation story.
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:21 pm
xxEternallyBluexx rmcdra xxEternallyBluexx True. But why would it make sense for multiple gods to exist? Because there's a distinction between God and gods. To me God is the only one worthy of worship because God is the only one that was willing to show himself to me. Other gods they may exist but I haven't interacted with them and haven't proven themselves worthy of worship to me. At this point in my life, even if another god revealed themselves to me I couldn't betray my God. Quote: If there is one omnipotent one, why should he tolerate lesser gods, especially if they're evil? Why does God tolerate Satan? God's goodness is based in love. If people wish to be away from him and with another, why should God force one to love him or be with him? Quote: And I try to be tolerant, but I'm never gonna say you're gods are good or equal to mine, even though I might want to. Same here but what do you mean by "good"? To me, God's goodness is agape and that is how God is revealed. Other than the Prime Mover in what little of Vedic religions I am familiar with, I don't know of any other God that fits the bill. Quote: I love myths, I'd love it if god/desses like Artemis or Hephaestus were real and benevolent, but as a Christian I can't. Doesn't mean you can't believe in them, just that you are not to worship them. Paul talks about not serving false gods quite frequently yet doesn't deny that they exist. Quote: I love my own God too much to do that to Him, and I don't think those other gods are real, or if they're real that they're not demons in disguise. They have to many human qualities for me to call them demons, but still not worthy of worship to me. Quote: Sorry, but I'm too loyal to Jesus to do that. sweatdrop It's good to be loyal though your reasons for discounting the possibility of other gods even existing seem to be limited to they can't be real. Quote: And part of tolerance is tolerating a Christian's need to witness. wink Very true but there is also less confrontational and more loving ways of witnessing that many people tend to be ignorant of. I don't think there are other gods worthy of worship, or God would've said the other gods were okay and not false. He doesn't, He lets us choose, but when we choose Him, He warns us away from things that aren't good for us. And the explanation I've heard for Him tolerating satan, is once He destroys evil He's gonna destroy all evil, including people who still have sin nature (and all people alive according to my brother, because we wear corrupt flesh). So He doesn't destroy evil for our sake, according to that way of thinking. Why does God not want us to worship other gods if they aren't false or evil? If they were okay, then shouldn't worshipping them be okay? That's still going by your God. Can the hindu Gods confirm or deny your God? Your logic is bad here- It's circular. Work on that.
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:50 pm
xxEternallyBluexx I don't think there are other gods worthy of worship, or God would've said the other gods were okay and not false. Well this is what YHVH expects of his followers. For me, it would be pointless and limiting to worship another God. Quote: He doesn't, He lets us choose, but when we choose Him, He warns us away from things that aren't good for us. Fair enough. Quote: And the explanation I've heard for Him tolerating satan, is once He destroys evil He's gonna destroy all evil, including people who still have sin nature (and all people alive according to my brother, because we wear corrupt flesh). So He doesn't destroy evil for our sake, according to that way of thinking. You might want to explore scripture more because this view has many verses that contradict it. Quote: Why does God not want us to worship other gods if they aren't false or evil? If they were okay, then shouldn't worshipping them be okay? Because you are thinking in a universal perspective rather than a local perspective. Before Judaism (and by extension Christianity) became strict monotheistic, the common thought was that gods were bound to particular people or nations. YHVH was the god of the Hebrew people. It was YHVH that united these people together. For other nations and people, it was other gods. Since Judaism has an issue about staying distinct from other cultures, for a Hebrew to worship another god would be like a US soldier pissing on the American Flag or flipping off the President during a peace talk televised world wide. Quote: I still don't believe in them. >< As characters I love the Greek/Roman gods and goddesses are awesome, but in a world God controls they hold too much power, and they just aren't believable. It'd be a bit too much like believing in some literary character like Gandalf or Saphira. It's not your world-view, fair enough. I'm not saying that you have to, I'm saying that scripture does not prohibit believing that they exist, just prohibits that those in a covenant with YHVH from worshiping them. Quote: They're too human to be trustworthy. Pretty much. Quote: I don't know if they're real or not. I don't think there's other good gods because then Jesus wouldn't be the only way. It's easier to say they're not real then that they're evil demons who just want to mislead people, but honestly I don't know about them. Fair enough Quote: Agreed, but in the story the man's witnessing was entirely warranted. Totally and he didn't do it in a disrespectful manner either. Quote: I do think there's some ways that are a lot more effective though, like the footwashing they do for the homeless in Washington. They don't witness while they do it, they just serve and let their actions speak for them. "Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words" ~St Francis of Assisi.
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:31 am
Artto xxEternallyBluexx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piuoGb-Nhfw What say you? Should a professor teach a class like that? Was the chalk not breaking just a coincidence? Any other comment? Besides this probably being made up, I don't see how it's amazing. Amazing would be if the chalk stopped in mid air. That would be a miracle. A chalk bouncing off someone's shoe is not. Agreed. I'm sorry, the guy seems to just be a putz.
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:14 pm
You want a story that "proves" Hindu religion to be true? I came across this story one night while searching for pictures of the Hindu gods a couple weeks ago and very nearly converted to Hinduism after reading this... The only reason I haven't is because I am a fan of making educated decisions and am still learning about Hinduism... Also, from what I've learned about it thus far the textbooks that gave a rough outline of it in school were all extremely flawed in the fact that they confused the Hindu faith with other parts of the Indian culture. Warning: this is much better proof than your video which was nothing but a story told to emotion-causing music, this however is TRUE. I saw it on several news sites as well as this one... like ABC. Also, (and I promise this is my last point in this long-winded introduction) The night I was studying Hindu I got the same feeling I got when being "touched" by God in the Christian faith as well as while practicing various pagan activities... and just as strong if not stronger...
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23419627-toddler-with-eight-limbs-branded-reincarnation-of-hindu-god-to-undergo-life-saving-operation.do
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:46 pm
Itachi_Hare You want a story that "proves" Hindu religion to be true? I came across this story one night while searching for pictures of the Hindu gods a couple weeks ago and very nearly converted to Hinduism after reading this... The only reason I haven't is because I am a fan of making educated decisions and am still learning about Hinduism... Also, from what I've learned about it thus far the textbooks that gave a rough outline of it in school were all extremely flawed in the fact that they confused the Hindu faith with other parts of the Indian culture. Warning: this is much better proof than your video which was nothing but a story told to emotion-causing music, this however is TRUE. I saw it on several news sites as well as this one... like ABC. Also, (and I promise this is my last point in this long-winded introduction) The night I was studying Hindu I got the same feeling I got when being "touched" by God in the Christian faith as well as while practicing various pagan activities... and just as strong if not stronger... http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23419627-toddler-with-eight-limbs-branded-reincarnation-of-hindu-god-to-undergo-life-saving-operation.do That poor girl! I don't doubt it's true, but I think it's an unfortunate mutation. Jeez, that's not right. ><
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:53 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Itachi_Hare You want a story that "proves" Hindu religion to be true? I came across this story one night while searching for pictures of the Hindu gods a couple weeks ago and very nearly converted to Hinduism after reading this... The only reason I haven't is because I am a fan of making educated decisions and am still learning about Hinduism... Also, from what I've learned about it thus far the textbooks that gave a rough outline of it in school were all extremely flawed in the fact that they confused the Hindu faith with other parts of the Indian culture. Warning: this is much better proof than your video which was nothing but a story told to emotion-causing music, this however is TRUE. I saw it on several news sites as well as this one... like ABC. Also, (and I promise this is my last point in this long-winded introduction) The night I was studying Hindu I got the same feeling I got when being "touched" by God in the Christian faith as well as while practicing various pagan activities... and just as strong if not stronger... http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23419627-toddler-with-eight-limbs-branded-reincarnation-of-hindu-god-to-undergo-life-saving-operation.do That poor girl! I don't doubt it's true, but I think it's an unfortunate mutation. Jeez, that's not right. >< i hope you read it all thoroughly, she was born on the day of Vishnu, a four armed goddess in Hindu culture, she had four arms... there are more children in India born with characteristics like those of the Hindu gods, one of which is a baby born with two fully formed faces...
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:56 pm
rmcdra xxEternallyBluexx I don't think there are other gods worthy of worship, or God would've said the other gods were okay and not false. Well this is what YHVH expects of his followers. For me, it would be pointless and limiting to worship another God. Quote: He doesn't, He lets us choose, but when we choose Him, He warns us away from things that aren't good for us. Fair enough. Quote: And the explanation I've heard for Him tolerating satan, is once He destroys evil He's gonna destroy all evil, including people who still have sin nature (and all people alive according to my brother, because we wear corrupt flesh). So He doesn't destroy evil for our sake, according to that way of thinking. You might want to explore scripture more because this view has many verses that contradict it. Quote: Why does God not want us to worship other gods if they aren't false or evil? If they were okay, then shouldn't worshipping them be okay? Because you are thinking in a universal perspective rather than a local perspective. Before Judaism (and by extension Christianity) became strict monotheistic, the common thought was that gods were bound to particular people or nations. YHVH was the god of the Hebrew people. It was YHVH that united these people together. For other nations and people, it was other gods. Since Judaism has an issue about staying distinct from other cultures, for a Hebrew to worship another god would be like a US soldier pissing on the American Flag or flipping off the President during a peace talk televised world wide. Quote: I still don't believe in them. >< As characters I love the Greek/Roman gods and goddesses are awesome, but in a world God controls they hold too much power, and they just aren't believable. It'd be a bit too much like believing in some literary character like Gandalf or Saphira. It's not your world-view, fair enough. I'm not saying that you have to, I'm saying that scripture does not prohibit believing that they exist, just prohibits that those in a covenant with YHVH from worshiping them. Quote: They're too human to be trustworthy. Pretty much. Quote: I don't know if they're real or not. I don't think there's other good gods because then Jesus wouldn't be the only way. It's easier to say they're not real then that they're evil demons who just want to mislead people, but honestly I don't know about them. Fair enough Quote: Agreed, but in the story the man's witnessing was entirely warranted. Totally and he didn't do it in a disrespectful manner either. Quote: I do think there's some ways that are a lot more effective though, like the footwashing they do for the homeless in Washington. They don't witness while they do it, they just serve and let their actions speak for them. "Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words" ~St Francis of Assisi. Yep. Yeah, I should. I got that explanation from my brother but I was planning on looking into it. I see what you mean. I know. I think those people wanted to know about it. Awesome quote.
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:24 pm
brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup I'm willing to bet that you don't know as much about Hinduism as you think you do... But that aside, imagine how ridiculous your religion must seem to Hindus who know as little about your religion as you do theirs. It makes little sense to me, and I was raised with it.
Why does YHWH not show Himself to non-believers? I have never heard Him, even when I was desperately looking for reasons to believe.
How is reincarnation less believable than the idea that, based on our devotion to a god that may or may not exist, we go to eternal paradise or eternal suffering? Really? And as I understand it there is no death in Heaven or Hell, but people are constantly being added. How is that numerically possible?
And really? The multiple arms is the thing that stumped you?
In any case, in my eyes, relying so heavily on faith is a bad thing. It means that there is absolutely no reason to believe. It is the enemy of logic I don't much about it I haven't read a book about a Hindu yet), but what I do know doesn't sound very logical. Anything about the religion that seems true to you, go ahead and bring it up. I'd love to know why it might work. He does. Read JesusFreaks, or any of the numerous conversion stories where people randomly become Christian because of a revelation. It happened to my mom. Because it's based on a single factor whom has revealed Himself throughout the ages, and who is the driving force behind the whole thing. How is it possible that Jupiter has a tornado three times the size of Earth? xd And the elephant head. I don't get that either. XD It's not. It's a powerful motivator, it gives hope, and usually there are reasons to believe. My mom believes because of the visions she's had, and because she's felt His Presence. I believe because I trust my mom more then the world, and I've met Him too, and He's unbelievably awesome. Plus I don't want to live in a world without Him. I don't see purpose to that. You want logic? What's the logic behind striving for happiness when it all will all disappear? Or the logic behind pursuing success when it's doomed to crumble? Without God, all we're doing is building sandcastles. But that's beside the point. Don't put faith down as being 'no reason to believe'. That's following blindly, and it's not what the Christians I've met do. Christians do puzzle things out, they do question things, they do use logic (read Mere Christianity if you don't believe me on that one); they just know how to trust God too.
Well, people also claim to have seen Bigfoot or to have been possessed by demons. Every religion has cases of this, but when it boils down to it, unless it actually happens to me I can't bring myself to regard it as anything higher than wishful thinking.
To say that your god does or influences anything is to already assume that He exists. If He doesn't exist, none of that is valid.
Well, yeah, that's basically what I think. I think that a lot of things that people do in desperate attempts to be remembered after death is because of some glitch in our system that makes it hard for us to grasp the idea of our own mortality. Like, think of how people plan out their own funerals. What a silly concept. It's not like you're going to be there. XD
I think if you really want answers to those questions, you should take a soc/psych class. But I don't think that you do want answers.
What's the difference between faith and following blindly?Well Christianity's also came from an entirely different culture, and it's bringing in tons of members from all sorts of different cultures. Why do you think that is? 'Wishful thinking' has brought people back from the edge of despair...that's nice to know. I'm only here because of 'wishful thinking', and there's plenty of people who risk their lives over 'wishful thinking'...excuse me if I think that's (insert word that denotes 'stupid' but is not insulting). Well there's the 'if'. I'm gonna stay on the side of it that knows He does, because I lose nothing by assuming God exists. That 'glitch' is the part of us that remembers we should've had forever. We were made for eternity. I took psychology last semester, but I had to skip sociology in favor of watercoloring. But really, I would like to know. I do want answers, even if I think I already have the truth. Well for one thing if I 'followed blindly', I'd want to be one of those Christians who thought homosexuality was fine. It'd help me fit in. 'Following blindly' is not questioning and being trapped in a belief without caring about whether it's true or not. Having faith means trusting a God you've seen evidence for, for things you don't understand yet. It's the difference being able to question, and being too scared to.
Frankly, there are stories of revelations and visions in every religion. And to be honest, it's probably much more common in religions older than Christianity. And the only thing that sets the Christian ones apart from all of the others is that living in a largely Christian country, they're pretty common here. But as I've said before I've yet to see any proof that any of these are actually valid and I've no reason to believe that it has actually happened to anybody.
Well you say that Hinduism makes no logical sense, yet you're proud of the fact that you put faith in place of logic. How is that fair?
Sociology and Psychology will give you answers to all of your questions about human behavior. But they are both divided fields and you have to think for yourself to determine which views you agree with.
The people who believe that homosexuality is wrong just because a religious official tells them to believe that it is are the people who follow blindly! Sure, there are parts of the Bible that may be interpreted as disapproving of homosexuality, but we ignore a lot of stuff in the bible. People are quick to plug the bible when it comes to laying with a man as one lays with a women, but seem to forget about the parts about killing Pagans and slavery. And half of the verses are not even the Christian's books! Prop 8- The Musical
Can you yourself honestly think of one single reason why homosexuality is immoral? Actually wrong? Can you seriously think of one reason other than "The Bible/God said it"?
Because that, believing something just because God kind of maybe said it is blind faith.
EDIT: I know that I'm being harsh. And I know that other people are too. But as an atheist I know first-hand how hard it is to try not to offend somebody and be respectful of their beliefs but at the same time debate them.
So when you do things like liken an entire religion to an acid trip while knowing almost nothing about it, it would be like if I were to say "Well your religion is just worship of a zombie Jew, right? That's weird to me and therefore wrong."That not always the way it is, and yeah, those girls were a bit harsh. Other people can be too. I told someone I thought homosexuality was a sin at my school today, and they kinda blew up at me. It's not one-sided, and from what I've read in accounts, it's not usually like that. I wouldn't be here if my mom wasn't told by God He wanted her to have kids. There's a man in Australia at the head of a superchurch because some guy put a pamphlet about God in His hand, and he couldn't throw it away. He was a drug addict at the time. There's books of angel stories, and martyr stories and revelations. Can you explain that all away? And I still don't know of any awesome revelation stories for other religions (the multi-limbed toddler doesn't seem like one to me). Before logic, not in place of. I'd be a rambling fool if that were the truth. Plus if you think I don't value logic, then why would it matter if I said another religion wasn't logical. I know that, and I'll take more courses on it in college. http://www.bfamilyadvocates.com/homosexuality.htmI'd draw your attention to 2-7 and 10 specifically. Do those have anything to do with the Bible? I whited it out. It had a warning. I want a better understanding of the religion. But did it seem like a drug trip to me at the time? I have to say it kinda did, and it still doesn't seem all that rational to me. And yeah, I hear stuff like that in school. I gotta deal with it all the time, so no, I don't feel all that horrible putting something like that in white. I'm sorry for being insulting, but it's what I thought.chrome://myqna/skin/tekformat3.gif
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:35 pm
Itachi_Hare You want a story that "proves" Hindu religion to be true? I came across this story one night while searching for pictures of the Hindu gods a couple weeks ago and very nearly converted to Hinduism after reading this... The only reason I haven't is because I am a fan of making educated decisions and am still learning about Hinduism... Also, from what I've learned about it thus far the textbooks that gave a rough outline of it in school were all extremely flawed in the fact that they confused the Hindu faith with other parts of the Indian culture. Warning: this is much better proof than your video which was nothing but a story told to emotion-causing music, this however is TRUE. I saw it on several news sites as well as this one... like ABC. Also, (and I promise this is my last point in this long-winded introduction) The night I was studying Hindu I got the same feeling I got when being "touched" by God in the Christian faith as well as while practicing various pagan activities... and just as strong if not stronger... http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23419627-toddler-with-eight-limbs-branded-reincarnation-of-hindu-god-to-undergo-life-saving-operation.do That is a case of a conjoined twin. Not a mutation. Instead of becoming twins they didn't split all the way and one twin never really developed. That's different from a completely average person with extra limbs.
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:55 pm
xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup I'm willing to bet that you don't know as much about Hinduism as you think you do... But that aside, imagine how ridiculous your religion must seem to Hindus who know as little about your religion as you do theirs. It makes little sense to me, and I was raised with it.
Why does YHWH not show Himself to non-believers? I have never heard Him, even when I was desperately looking for reasons to believe.
How is reincarnation less believable than the idea that, based on our devotion to a god that may or may not exist, we go to eternal paradise or eternal suffering? Really? And as I understand it there is no death in Heaven or Hell, but people are constantly being added. How is that numerically possible?
And really? The multiple arms is the thing that stumped you?
In any case, in my eyes, relying so heavily on faith is a bad thing. It means that there is absolutely no reason to believe. It is the enemy of logic I don't much about it I haven't read a book about a Hindu yet), but what I do know doesn't sound very logical. Anything about the religion that seems true to you, go ahead and bring it up. I'd love to know why it might work. He does. Read JesusFreaks, or any of the numerous conversion stories where people randomly become Christian because of a revelation. It happened to my mom. Because it's based on a single factor whom has revealed Himself throughout the ages, and who is the driving force behind the whole thing. How is it possible that Jupiter has a tornado three times the size of Earth? xd And the elephant head. I don't get that either. XD It's not. It's a powerful motivator, it gives hope, and usually there are reasons to believe. My mom believes because of the visions she's had, and because she's felt His Presence. I believe because I trust my mom more then the world, and I've met Him too, and He's unbelievably awesome. Plus I don't want to live in a world without Him. I don't see purpose to that. You want logic? What's the logic behind striving for happiness when it all will all disappear? Or the logic behind pursuing success when it's doomed to crumble? Without God, all we're doing is building sandcastles. But that's beside the point. Don't put faith down as being 'no reason to believe'. That's following blindly, and it's not what the Christians I've met do. Christians do puzzle things out, they do question things, they do use logic (read Mere Christianity if you don't believe me on that one); they just know how to trust God too.
Well, people also claim to have seen Bigfoot or to have been possessed by demons. Every religion has cases of this, but when it boils down to it, unless it actually happens to me I can't bring myself to regard it as anything higher than wishful thinking.
To say that your god does or influences anything is to already assume that He exists. If He doesn't exist, none of that is valid.
Well, yeah, that's basically what I think. I think that a lot of things that people do in desperate attempts to be remembered after death is because of some glitch in our system that makes it hard for us to grasp the idea of our own mortality. Like, think of how people plan out their own funerals. What a silly concept. It's not like you're going to be there. XD
I think if you really want answers to those questions, you should take a soc/psych class. But I don't think that you do want answers.
What's the difference between faith and following blindly?Well Christianity's also came from an entirely different culture, and it's bringing in tons of members from all sorts of different cultures. Why do you think that is? 'Wishful thinking' has brought people back from the edge of despair...that's nice to know. I'm only here because of 'wishful thinking', and there's plenty of people who risk their lives over 'wishful thinking'...excuse me if I think that's (insert word that denotes 'stupid' but is not insulting). Well there's the 'if'. I'm gonna stay on the side of it that knows He does, because I lose nothing by assuming God exists. That 'glitch' is the part of us that remembers we should've had forever. We were made for eternity. I took psychology last semester, but I had to skip sociology in favor of watercoloring. But really, I would like to know. I do want answers, even if I think I already have the truth. Well for one thing if I 'followed blindly', I'd want to be one of those Christians who thought homosexuality was fine. It'd help me fit in. 'Following blindly' is not questioning and being trapped in a belief without caring about whether it's true or not. Having faith means trusting a God you've seen evidence for, for things you don't understand yet. It's the difference being able to question, and being too scared to.
Frankly, there are stories of revelations and visions in every religion. And to be honest, it's probably much more common in religions older than Christianity. And the only thing that sets the Christian ones apart from all of the others is that living in a largely Christian country, they're pretty common here. But as I've said before I've yet to see any proof that any of these are actually valid and I've no reason to believe that it has actually happened to anybody.
Well you say that Hinduism makes no logical sense, yet you're proud of the fact that you put faith in place of logic. How is that fair?
Sociology and Psychology will give you answers to all of your questions about human behavior. But they are both divided fields and you have to think for yourself to determine which views you agree with.
The people who believe that homosexuality is wrong just because a religious official tells them to believe that it is are the people who follow blindly! Sure, there are parts of the Bible that may be interpreted as disapproving of homosexuality, but we ignore a lot of stuff in the bible. People are quick to plug the bible when it comes to laying with a man as one lays with a women, but seem to forget about the parts about killing Pagans and slavery. And half of the verses are not even the Christian's books! Prop 8- The Musical
Can you yourself honestly think of one single reason why homosexuality is immoral? Actually wrong? Can you seriously think of one reason other than "The Bible/God said it"?
Because that, believing something just because God kind of maybe said it is blind faith.
EDIT: I know that I'm being harsh. And I know that other people are too. But as an atheist I know first-hand how hard it is to try not to offend somebody and be respectful of their beliefs but at the same time debate them.
So when you do things like liken an entire religion to an acid trip while knowing almost nothing about it, it would be like if I were to say "Well your religion is just worship of a zombie Jew, right? That's weird to me and therefore wrong."That not always the way it is, and yeah, those girls were a bit harsh. Other people can be too. I told someone I thought homosexuality was a sin at my school today, and they kinda blew up at me. It's not one-sided, and from what I've read in accounts, it's not usually like that. I wouldn't be here if my mom wasn't told by God He wanted her to have kids. There's a man in Australia at the head of a superchurch because some guy put a pamphlet about God in His hand, and he couldn't throw it away. He was a drug addict at the time. There's books of angel stories, and martyr stories and revelations. Can you explain that all away? And I still don't know of any awesome revelation stories for other religions (the multi-limbed toddler doesn't seem like one to me). Before logic, not in place of. I'd be a rambling fool if that were the truth. Plus if you think I don't value logic, then why would it matter if I said another religion wasn't logical. I know that, and I'll take more courses on it in college. http://www.bfamilyadvocates.com/homosexuality.htmI'd draw your attention to 2-7 and 10 specifically. Do those have anything to do with the Bible? I whited it out. It had a warning. I want a better understanding of the religion. But did it seem like a drug trip to me at the time? I have to say it kinda did, and it still doesn't seem all that rational to me. And yeah, I hear stuff like that in school. I gotta deal with it all the time, so no, I don't feel all that horrible putting something like that in white. I'm sorry for being insulting, but it's what I thought.chrome://myqna/skin/tekformat3.gif Hindu and Buddhism have the same stories- Siddhartha's story. But a zombie jew sounds more reasonable? "Acid trips", as you describe them, seems to be closer to God than speaking to some guy. Imagine the colors, the shapes, the harmonies, the sounds and the motion, all blending to one- Although this is the stereotypical idea of a hindu "revelation", even then it is more powerful and spiritual than speaking with the "zombie jew".
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:14 pm
Shiori Miko Itachi_Hare You want a story that "proves" Hindu religion to be true? I came across this story one night while searching for pictures of the Hindu gods a couple weeks ago and very nearly converted to Hinduism after reading this... The only reason I haven't is because I am a fan of making educated decisions and am still learning about Hinduism... Also, from what I've learned about it thus far the textbooks that gave a rough outline of it in school were all extremely flawed in the fact that they confused the Hindu faith with other parts of the Indian culture. Warning: this is much better proof than your video which was nothing but a story told to emotion-causing music, this however is TRUE. I saw it on several news sites as well as this one... like ABC. Also, (and I promise this is my last point in this long-winded introduction) The night I was studying Hindu I got the same feeling I got when being "touched" by God in the Christian faith as well as while practicing various pagan activities... and just as strong if not stronger... http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23419627-toddler-with-eight-limbs-branded-reincarnation-of-hindu-god-to-undergo-life-saving-operation.do That is a case of a conjoined twin. Not a mutation. Instead of becoming twins they didn't split all the way and one twin never really developed. That's different from a completely average person with extra limbs. I understand that but from the definition I know of the word mutation that still counts as one. In fact from most stories of mutation where people have an extra ear/arm/ face or anything like that is when the baby tried to come out a set of twins (not intentionally of course but I hope you grasp the story) I'm also afraid that you misinterpretted the meaning behind my post. The reason the word proves was in quotation marks was because I was implying that it is not proof in and of itself but that it is just as much proof as most christian stories of faith and according to many of the Hindus in India where the baby was born she was a miracle that proved to them that their faith was real. Her mother even named her after the goddess. I also would like to point out that it isn't the mutation itself that is the miracle it's that the girl was born on the same day that the Hindu's celebrate the goddess Vishnu with four arms attached to her body regardless of the scientific reason behind it (there is so much that can be explained by science these days) Also I should point out that just because we know why something happens, does that make it any less of a miracle? I digress the main reason I put this on here is because Blue hadn't read any stories of the miracles of other religions apart from her own, just because some of us see that as a nonmiracle has nothing to do with why I put it up there... I am not a Hindu, though I am trying to learn about it...
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:56 pm
divineseraph xxEternallyBluexx Artto xxEternallyBluexx Also, in a religiously tolerant country like America we should have Hindu accounts of gods revealing themselves to them, if they exist. I think we don't have them because they don't. There's 0.4% of Hindus living in the US. You better try and look for revelations in India, where there are actually Hindus walking about. And Hinduism isn't a simple as you think. It isn't just worshipping gods with many arms and elephant heads. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism I'll look for them if I ever get to go to India. I think it'll be quite a while before that's a possibility though, I'd love to know if there's any accounts on revelations around for any religion besides Christianity and Judaism. I don't think it's simple, just that it doesn't have a lot of truth or logic behind it. Thank you! You have yet to explain how Hinduism is "illogical", let alone compared to your own beliefs. How is it any less likely for there to be multiple creators, or multiple faces of God as many Hindus believe? Before you say "My God says so", their Gods say the opposite. And they have majority rule. The logic is much more flowing than "we are being punished for the sins of the first humans who were tricked into eating magic fruit by a walking snake, so now we have to pray to a miracle-doing dead guy to get back on God's good side."- It starts with the cosmos and the world being a weave, with everything connected by the Brahman. All things are one thing in the Brahman. (It is what I consider God, though it connects to YHWH in the role, so I consider God to be YHWH) The Brahman is everything in it's spiritual core, that becomes physical matter. Individual souls are called Atman. Karma is how we transcend the mortal coil, so our Atman can meet up with the Brahman. Karma is done by deeds- If we do evil, our soul is "weighed down", and kept on the lower planes. If we do good, we float "up" to the higher planes. This is where the idea of reincarnation comes from, when we shed our mortal shell the Atman, according the reincarnation theory, goes to one of several layers depending on it's weight- There is a "god realm", which is basically heaven, "hell realm" and earth, with a few in between. That dynamic system of spiritual connection with everything, which is backed by Alchemy and science, makes much more sense and uses much more logic than the biblical creation story. If you're going by rules of the religion, my God is omnipotent and omniscient; I'm pretty sure He's know better. And I don't see why a god should have multiple arms, faces, animal parts, why people should be reincarnated, or karma actually at work. A single God at the root of everything seems more probable anyway. Still doesn't make more sense to me, partly because you put Christianity in simplistic terms that would make it look silly, and Hinduism in the most rational form you could. That's not really fair. I don't see how. The Biblical creation story has a lot of bits that correspond to people, while I think Hinduism actually says Brahman is dreaming the whole thing, and at some point he'll wake up and forget us? I also don't see how it explains evil?
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