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 Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:15 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Shiori Miko xxEternallyBluexx I think you should have the option of learning about whatever religion you like, but you have to learn about something. Didn't one of the presidents say it was a bad idea to educate men without morals? Religion =/= morals. They don't exactly teach morals in school either. And for morals, Christanity's Law of Agape, the Golden Rule, and the Ten Commandments are all great places to start, huh? Doesn't change that religion does not equal morals.
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:23 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Shiori Miko xxEternallyBluexx I think you should have the option of learning about whatever religion you like, but you have to learn about something. Didn't one of the presidents say it was a bad idea to educate men without morals? Religion =/= morals. They don't exactly teach morals in school either. And for morals, Christanity's Law of Agape, the Golden Rule, and the Ten Commandments are all great places to start, huh?
Nearly half of the Ten Commandments are about how to worship God and not make Him mad.
Morals are subjective.
I don't follow Christian morals but definitely think about morals at least twice as much as some of my Christian friends.
Some people grow to be good, honest people out of following Christianity's morals.
Some are simply contrary to them by nature.
I would go insane if I had to act as I am told to by the Bible.
For private religious schools, fine, teach religious morals.
But it has no place in a public school.
It's the parents' job to make sure the child grows up with morals and, ideally, the child's job to one day decide on his own.
I could see a philosophy or sociology class helping form opinions on morals too, but they usually don't show up until college.
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:20 pm
In the fourth grade, this one girl in one of my classes brought a bible to school the day before Easter Break. She asked the teacher if we could all read it aloud and the teacher, being a devout Christian herself, said that it was okay as long as it was student run. So, all of these girls in my class passed the bible around and took turns reading scriptures out loud. When they asked if I wanted to, I politely declined, even though I was Christian at the time, because all I could think about was how awkward the moment must have been for any kids in the class who weren't Christian and were to shy to speak up. Remembering how awkward that class was, I can imagine that actually teaching the bible in the classroom would be significantly worse. If it's a private school and that's what the kids want, then fine, but in the case of public schools, there should be absolutely no biblical teachings. That's really something that would be more appropriate for after class.
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:06 pm
Quote: They don't exactly teach morals in school either. And for morals, Christanity's Law of Agape, the Golden Rule, and the Ten Commandments are all great places to start, huh? Moral absolutism is flawed, naive and downright stupid. Sometimes it's right to lie, sometimes it's right to steal. Sometimes it's even right to kill. It all depends on the context. Even the golden rule doesn't always apply. Determening right and wrong isn't as easy as checking a list of 10 rules. It requires THINKING about it! And that's why I think The Ten Commandments have practicly no value as a moral guide.
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:37 pm
The Bible in schools like other religions shouldn't be allowed in the normal class, but creationism yes if evolutionism is in schools.
If one religion is allowed in schools, then all other religions must be allowed in schools as well. But creationism is different than religion.
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:25 am
iCharlieee The Bible in schools like other religions shouldn't be allowed in the normal class, but creationism yes if evolutionism is in schools. If one religion is allowed in schools, then all other religions must be allowed in schools as well. But creationism is different than religion. Oh really? So "God created everything" is not a religious statement? Actually, it's a christian statement. What about muslims, hindus and others? Want to teach their creation myths in school as well? I've studied creationism (the US "creations science" kind) a lot, I was actually very much interested in it, but it turned out to be a load of bullshit. I am also quite knowledgeable when it comes to evolutionary theory, and it actually makes a lot of sense. If you're prepared to learn about it, that is, and not just keep shouting "I didn't come from no monkey!".
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:28 pm
My school has "CIA" or "Christians In Action" which is an after school organization. That is perfectly fine. However, i'd bet if I proposed a "religious studies" club, to study, not follow, but simply study, pagan religions like wicca and buddism, it would be rejected and I might even earn myself a week of detention for not being Christian. It irritates me to no end how Christianity is the only "Right" religion where i live, but there is nothing wrong with having christian classes as an option. I think there should be classes on other religions as well, but I guess the budget limits that. Christian will pay for bible study. When you try to offer a "Rede Study" class, the PTA flips out and sues the school for being evil. Gotta love Texas. Sigh.
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Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:11 am
I think it's very stupid.
I'm an Atheist, but I was taught the bible in school. I'm fine with that, because it was very interesting to learn, but I can see where controversy could arise.
I was taught the bible the secular way. It was pretty fun, actually. We learned about contemporary researches that were trying to explain what is described in the bible in a less religious way. We saw why these people chose to write what they wrote and the way they wrote it, what could have caused this or the other event described, or metaphor used, to be written in the bible.
For example, we learned about the mythologies of other peoples the people who wrote passages of the bible lived in proximity too, and were probably affected by. So we compared the stories to find similarities. That kind of things.
I found it fascinating. We've never argued about the existence or inexsitence of god. It was never an issue for us, because we were learning about the bible, not about religion. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but it can.
I guess it wouldn't harm people to look into scripture. I'm pretty glad I learned the bible, and I'm glad they taught us Suwar of the Quran in Arabic class. They all have such a huge impact on the world. It wouldn't hurt knowing what they were about even if it isn't your religion.
However, this can cause so much controversy. It might not really work too well... Because in some schools, if you teach kids the bible the way I was taught, more religious people could get really pissed off. And if I had a kid who was taught the bible the religious way, I might pull them out of the school, because to me it'd feel like brainwashing.
It's a very sensitive issue. It's going to be hard to choose one way of doing that.
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Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:39 am
Umm..where have you guys been? xD
In Newton County Schools (Covington, GA) the Bible has been on our junior & senior summer reading list for years O_O
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:18 pm
Religion is not the only way to learn morals. There are entirely fictional books that teach morals very well. Also morals =/= the ability to follow rules... morals are knowing the difference between right and wrong. Not only that but the difference in and of itself is a huge grey area. Just because something is a rule does not make it morally correct. What if it was a rule that in order to get anything, including food and other necesities you had to kill their current owner? Does that make it right? Asto the topic question. It should not be taught in public schools with the exception of being a club or suchas that.
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:05 pm
Currently I'm working on a thesis paper for education, and you know what my sources say (both secular and religious)? They say that because kids aren't being taught morals in schol, and it's treated as such a sensitive subject, kids are learning that values don't matter. Kids are taking the stance that it doesn't matter what's right or wrong, but what gets them ahead. That makes for a lot of selfish people.
I think right and wrong is universal and absolute, that lying and other sins are always wrong, and that the Bible should be taught because it has such a huge impact on history, and that if everyone were taught the Law of Agape we'd have a far better world because if everyone's always concerned for their neighbor instead of themselves then everyone's provided for. I think people should stop being so darn sensitive in schools and just try to look for truth and teach it, and I think it's wrong my mom can't say a thing about what she believes even if her kids ask about it. I don't really care if the Bible specifically I taught, but good Biblical values? Even vague values that everyone agrees on would satisfy me more then keeping them out entirely.
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:12 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Currently I'm working on a thesis paper for education, and you know what my sources say (both secular and religious)? They say that because kids aren't being taught morals in schol, and it's treated as such a sensitive subject, kids are learning that values don't matter. Kids are taking the stance that it doesn't matter what's right or wrong, but what gets them ahead. That makes for a lot of selfish people. I think right and wrong is universal and absolute, that lying and other sins are always wrong, and that the Bible should be taught because it has such a huge impact on history, and that if everyone were taught the Law of Agape we'd have a far better world because if everyone's always concerned for their neighbor instead of themselves then everyone's provided for. I think people should stop being so darn sensitive in schools and just try to look for truth and teach it, and I think it's wrong my mom can't say a thing about what she believes even if her kids ask about it. I don't really care if the Bible specifically I taught, but good Biblical values? Even vague values that everyone agrees on would satisfy me more then keeping them out entirely.
And perhaps kids do have weaker morals today than they did a decade or two ago. But I don't think it's because of schools not teaching morals. I think it's a problem with American culture. Take cheating for example. In high school, many students, even honor students, will think that getting ahead is more important than how they do it and will cheat to get the A. But our society rewards success, not honesty. Many students copy homework instead of doing it themselves. But students are under a tremendous amount of pressure. Students with honor classes are already crunched for time with a heavy workload in most of their classes. Their teachers and parents are pushing them to get good grades. Then many students have sports and other extracurricular activities and some have jobs. They don't have time to do it all and it's easier to just copy homework. For most students, the bigger goal is getting into a good college, and the college isn't going to check how many times that student copied homework.
That student was definitely taught that cheating and lying was wrong, but he feels that in order to keep up with his peers, he has to cheat. And our society rewards cheaters.
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:27 pm
brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx Currently I'm working on a thesis paper for education, and you know what my sources say (both secular and religious)? They say that because kids aren't being taught morals in schol, and it's treated as such a sensitive subject, kids are learning that values don't matter. Kids are taking the stance that it doesn't matter what's right or wrong, but what gets them ahead. That makes for a lot of selfish people. I think right and wrong is universal and absolute, that lying and other sins are always wrong, and that the Bible should be taught because it has such a huge impact on history, and that if everyone were taught the Law of Agape we'd have a far better world because if everyone's always concerned for their neighbor instead of themselves then everyone's provided for. I think people should stop being so darn sensitive in schools and just try to look for truth and teach it, and I think it's wrong my mom can't say a thing about what she believes even if her kids ask about it. I don't really care if the Bible specifically I taught, but good Biblical values? Even vague values that everyone agrees on would satisfy me more then keeping them out entirely.
And perhaps kids do have weaker morals today than they did a decade or two ago. But I don't think it's because of schools not teaching morals. I think it's a problem with American culture. Take cheating for example. In high school, many students, even honor students, will think that getting ahead is more important than how they do it and will cheat to get the A. But our society rewards success, not honesty. Many students copy homework instead of doing it themselves. But students are under a tremendous amount of pressure. Students with honor classes are already crunched for time with a heavy workload in most of their classes. Their teachers and parents are pushing them to get good grades. Then many students have sports and other extracurricular activities and some have jobs. They don't have time to do it all and it's easier to just copy homework. For most students, the bigger goal is getting into a good college, and the college isn't going to check how many times that student copied homework.
That student was definitely taught that cheating and lying was wrong, but he feels that in order to keep up with his peers, he has to cheat. And our society rewards cheaters.Sure, if I agreed with them. And the majority does matter. Morals shouldn't be so subjective. Some things are wron, and people should be taught especially the Law of Agape. I think they are universal. You could be vague, or tell him you'll call the cops if he bugs her or you. There's usually another way out. It is a problem with the culture, but schools (because they work by rules) are more easily changed then culture. Changing the culture wold be preferable though.
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:43 pm
Ok.. but what if you don't agree with the hindu morals? Also, morals being taught in school could lead to more rebellion if they are concentrated on too much. And for another thing usually is not always and just because everyone thinks of their neighbor doesn't mean everyone is taken care of... There will always be someone that no one notices or thinks of.... I would know having been in need several times.... I also know that not everyone is morally inept... you for one are concerned with the lessoning of them, and there is this guild that was created to increase understanding between different people. There are many people who give to people in need and there are also those who savrifice their life and freedom for people they barely know... I know all this from first hand experience. And none of these people were taught morals in school... not religiously and by teachers anyhow. And my divorced, unhelpful parents are not entirely to thank for those morals either...
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